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I ran into an experienced African hunter who uses a .222 for kudu, which really surprised me. I can see how that might get used on occasion for culling purposes, under ideal circumstances, perhaps. But for hunting it really surprised me. I would think an animal that size should get a bigger rifle out of courtesy and respect if nothing else. Are kudu wimpier than I thought? | ||
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No, either the guy meant for culling (head shots only) or he's a knucklehead. A Kudu bull is as big as an Elk. | |||
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There are some very experienced hunters in NZ who use a 222 for red deer all the time. Deer culers used them a lot too. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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As Forrest Gump said "Stupid is as stupid does". | |||
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A kudu is not as tough as some other antelope; for example blue wildebeest. That said, I'd not call them "wimps". No. I'd not recommend it, I'd not do it. I've posted on this before I think, but I know of a well respected game farmer whose largest rifle on the property was a 222 Rem. I remeber arriving on the farm as a kid as they were loading a kudu bull onto a pick up shot with the 222 I was told. I was in awe. Shot neatly throught the heart. I can understand that not hitting bone and choosing angles and shooting only heart or lung shots and relying on shot palcement could work fine, but too may "ifs" for me. Many are hunted neatly with 243's by the way. I'm not recommending it and I'm dead against it and it is probably illegal in certain provinces of SA. But it can be done. I prefer to choose my rifles for those times when it doesn't all go as planned. | |||
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Cullers use whatever is cheap. But then they are not paying trophy fees. Just shoot 'em in the eye. Too gruesome for me. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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In the right hands and under right circumstances sure. But how many on a hunt that have to pay Trophy Fees are going to take a 222 . . . On a similar note, used to get a lot of Barnes flyers about their X Bullets. Sure, good bullets, but where does one draw the line, like this one below. He doesn't specifically state, but gives the impression he shoots Zebra with the Hornet as the pic shows  Waidmannsheil, Dom.One of the most desirable characteristics of the .22 Hornet with the X-Bullet is that I can take small game for the pot without destroying meat and then take larger plains game animals — with just the one load and one bullet — making life simple for an African Bush bum like me! I have introduced many young shooters to hunting African plains game with the .22 Hornet. Very little recoil and instant one-shot kills with the 45-grain X-Bullet make their first hunting experiences memorable and fun. One remarkable feature of the X-Bullet I have encountered after autopsies of many animals is the effective wound channel created by the rotating petals. In a world that appears to be dominated by increasingly larger and more powerful rifles and cartridges, the .22 Hornet may seem out of place, but it works just fine when the proper bullet is placed in the right spot. — Dr. Ed Ashby  -------- There are those who only reload so they can shoot, and then there are those who only shoot so they can reload. I belong to the first group. Dom --------- | |||
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But tooling around South Africa is not dangerous, except for the snakes. Kill off all the elephants, the lions, the buffalo, the black rhino, and most of the leopards, and the big gun is a 22 Hornet!  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I too was rather stunned to see all the pictures of a farmer friend in Namibia's son who shot everything with a .223. Kudu, heartebeast, even cow eland all with a well picked and placed shot to the heart. | |||
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At least it's easy on your ears. The next sport show I go to that has outfitters from Africa, I'll mention that I will bring my .223 (actually I don't have one). The look on his face could be priceless. | |||
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This is a bit of a thread drift, but I read somewhere (and all you read is true!) that experiments included shooting both impala and warthog well into the hundreds and that the Hornet provided through and through penetration on broadside shoulder shots without fail, but that the 22-250 wit the same bullet failed to do so. Apparently vhelocity in the 22-250 was reduced and at around 2600 or 2700 fps (if my memory serves me) the latter also provided exits and similar performance. At higher velocity apparently the X bullets were poor killers due to poor penetration. Anyway, this is more about how a Barnes X works and expands (extreme expansion = poor penetration) than about a .22 centrefire on big game, but it sort of came up in Dom's post... | |||
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Thanks for the comments, they amounted to about what I suspected. I asked because I actually had the opportunity to hunt kudu using a borrowed .222 owned by the gentleman who uses it for such. I declined and went after smaller antelope. I just couldn't see using that small a rifle on that large a beast and I sure didn't want to pay for wounding one. | |||
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If culling, I'd have no problems using my .223 for Kudu, and I take it 90% of the time. Not everyone is a bad shot, but for the majority of the hunters going to Africa, why risk it? My cousins friend has taken Elk in Montana for years with his .223. He doesn't take iffy shots, only standing still Elk and takes specific target areas. Like us in TN, any centerfire is legal. I would not hunt Elk or Kudu with a .222 or any very small caliber but many Elk and Kudu have been done in with small calibers over many years. It's not for most, and most do need large bore rifles truth be told. LDK Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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When I went on my first trip to Zim in 2004 I was staying at Afton lodge. I spoke with a gent that was on his 60th safari. He spoke of a number of cull hunts in his earlier trips to africa and of using a 22mag. As has been said before in the right hands any calibre is deadly but i think I will stick with either my 9.3x62 or 300 mag  | |||
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An excellent example of common sense. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I personally know a couple of PHs that regularly use .22-250, 257W and .223 to shoot Namibia's plain game up to and including kudu, eland and oryx using X bullets. In fact one of them uses his .257 shooting PAC lion for cattle ranchers on a regular basis, though he owns just about every other caliber up to a 500 A-square! I shot my Namibian kudu, 2 oryx, hartebeest and springbok with a borrowed .257 and X bullets from said gentleman with remarkable results - through on through penetration on kudu bull at approx 50 yds side on; frontal shot on Oryx (note; 2.5 inch chest skin!!) ending in the back of the guts at around 70 yds and quartering away shot on hartebeest at approx 35 yds with bullet ending in chest cavity area. As far as I am concerned, the X bullet in these lighter calibers are just fine for all game up to eland IMHO. Having said that, nothing wrong with chosing a .300 instead given the choice. Now a .22 hornet? Fine for stray dogs.... "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Well thanks, Fairgame. | |||
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Works great...IF AND ONLY IF you have the option to "pass" on potential shooting opportunities you might have taken with a larger caliber. "back-in-the-day" one of my best African friends built his ranch while feeding his family, the hired help and THEIR families with a Brno .22 long rifle. There's a huge difference between what you CAN do, and what makes sense, especially if you only have 10 days in-country. | |||
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I have been impressed with the 223 with either FMJ 55 gr(Sellier&Bellot) or PMP 55 gr soft points. Numerous one shot kills on eland, zebra and grant will attest to this. Ranges 50-300 meters. Crop protection the issue. All done at night. 30-06 available when ammo is there. Preference would be 30-378 with Barnes TSX! | |||
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In a perfect world a .22 short would do the trick! BUT... The world ain't a perfect place, nor are all shots in the field placed perfectly! (which would have to be the case when hunting Kudu) I'd hate to be the guy sitting around the campfire talking about his lost Kudu bull and then having to admit that I shot it with a .222 Rem. Not a wise decision to use this caliber for large game animals. JW | |||
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Only an Eskimo would think a 222 is a dandy kudu choice. | |||
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On my last trip to Africa, I took along a Krieghoff combination gun with interchangeable rifle barrels in .30-'06 and .222. (Its twin is for sale at http://www.drillinghotline.com/new.shtml.) I used the .222 barrel for all kinds of plains game, up to and including impala, and it proved to be ideal for the really small antelope like klipspringer and dik-dik. However, I would not have wanted to use it on anything larger than impala unless forced to by circumstances. | |||
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