Just a heads up:

USFW confirmed yesterday to me at SCI that Hippo from Moz. cannot be imported into the U.S.
They told me this came into into effect in November 2012.

great--maybe by next year I can just take my camera.

Does anyone know why USFW takes this sort of silly unilateral actions?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Does anyone know why USFW takes this sort of silly unilateral actions?

Because they can!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Does anyone know why USFW takes this sort of silly unilateral actions?

All you have to do is look at the idiots running the country and you'll have an idea of the idiots making decisions throughout the government. They are making decisions based on the color of the sky in their world rather than what's happening in the real world.

What next.
Charl, what was the reasoning behind it?
Hippo are not in short supply in Moz?
Ian

Even under the Bush administration we had the polar bear ban.There is no shortage of polar bears either.
Very few things govt. does makes sense to me.
This asault weapons ban they are trying to pass because of what happened in a school, could have been done with 2 samari swords just as easily. Small children & the elderly are such easy targets for some sorry perp.
Why don't they ban vehicles, they are almost always used to get to the scene of the crime.(I'm being sarcastic here)

quote:

Because they can!

Hmm, I guess our countries are more similar than some think.

quote:

Charl, what was the reasoning behind it?
Hippo are not in short supply in Moz?

many times these things are political concessions to special interests.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Because they can!

Hmm, I guess our countries are more similar than some think.

quote:

Charl, what was the reasoning behind it?
Hippo are not in short supply in Moz?

many times these things are political concessions to special interests.

That is true but more often as is the case with elephants from Mozambique, it has to do with the USF&WS not feeling that the exporting country has sufficient biological data to protect the species from over harvest.

465H&H

Under this (Obama's) administration (USF&W is under Sec. Of Interior...a cabinet position)...USF&W has a Carte Blanche to do pretty much what it wants.

I found this document.
http://www.fws.gov/le/publicbu...ade-restrictions.pdf
The reason stated is the usual sustainability BS.
In the area of the Zambezi I was on in Moz there was a lot of hippos and all people there, Local and from far away, agreed they were delicious.

Mark

damn glad i got mine home last year.if there is 1 thing Moz has no shortage of, it's hippos. this is just another example of federal bureaucracy run amok.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Under this (Obama's) administration (USF&W is under Sec. Of Interior...a cabinet position)...USF&W has a Carte Blanche to do pretty much what it wants.

Lane,

We don't often disagree but in this case there are specific protocols set up that the exporting countries must meet to get CITES clearance and signatory nations must abide by these. If you look at the list of animals and plants that are listed it doesn't appear that animls are selected by outside pressure.

465H&H

Moz is looking better and better for Canadians. Ele and hippo can't go to the US...if the FWS bans buff imports it'll be a Canuck paradise!

Ugh. That makes no sense....go figure.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Under this (Obama's) administration (USF&W is under Sec. Of Interior...a cabinet position)...USF&W has a Carte Blanche to do pretty much what it wants.

Lane,

We don't often disagree but in this case there are specific protocols set up that the exporting countries must meet to get CITES clearance and signatory nations must abide by these. If you look at the list of animals and plants that are listed it doesn't appear that animls are selected by outside pressure.

465H&H

465,
I don't disagree with your statement. That said...USF&W goes off on their own tangent...often. I can give you examples if you like.

Right now...they have no 'check-line' attached and can (and probably will) do pretty much as they please for the next 4 years.

the weird thing is that there is no CITES permit required by USFWS to import hippo. Moz has a CITES export quota but USFWS doesn't have a CITES import permit requirement. go figure... WHAT'S NEXT-HOST COUNTRY RANGE DATA TO JUSTIFY EXPORT/IMPORT OF WARTHOGS( after all, the teeth are ivory just like a hippo)?????

quote:

Moz is looking better and better for Canadians. Ele and hippo can't go to the US...if the FWS bans buff imports it'll be a Canuck paradise!

The concessions we hunt in Moz are probably the best Hippo and Croc concessions in the world. The quota released each year is above what you can hunt in a season and the supply of Hippos far outstrips what any hunter can take off.
It boggles the mind then that in a country where there are simply more hippo then you can shake a stick at, the USFWS makes it their mission to bugger up the US hunters sport options again.

We hunt mostly EU clients here but could easily accomodate all the Canucks and still have Hippo left over. The few US clients still interested in Moz will mostly take a dive now that there is only one big game species they can take home.

It would seem that USFWS are simply out to kill off hunting in the US as fast as they can.

How are the Australians treated by their version of FWS.

It's unlikely I'll be hunting hippo in Moz anytime soon, but lets band together as brothers (and sisters) and write letters, create a petition, or something. Look at the Harrisburg show.

I booked 6 Hippo Croc combo's for 2013! I will have to refund all those clients, and what looked to be our best and bussiest year is now turning out...well....not so good! What I early got a heart attack when they told me this. Any case, cannot see it to change soon with petitions and the like. Moz government will have to wake up and come to the party on this!

Just to be clear, this is a CITES directive, not USFWS.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Under this (Obama's) administration (USF&W is under Sec. Of Interior...a cabinet position)...USF&W has a Carte Blanche to do pretty much what it wants.

Lane,

We don't often disagree but in this case there are specific protocols set up that the exporting countries must meet to get CITES clearance and signatory nations must abide by these. If you look at the list of animals and plants that are listed it doesn't appear that animls are selected by outside pressure.

465H&H

The way I understand it, all signatories to CITES have to agree with CITES regulations.

They cannot just decide on their own on what to ban.

As Lane mentioned, the USFW have gone on their own in the past without any good reason.

Although Australia agree to CITES conditions, They decided on the complete ban on Elephant, Rhino and spotted cat "without any good reason" so USFW aren't on their own when it comes to thinking they know better.

quote:

Moz is looking better and better for Canadians. Ele and hippo can't go to the US...if the FWS bans buff imports it'll be a Canuck paradise!

That's it, I'm out

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Under this (Obama's) administration (USF&W is under Sec. Of Interior...a cabinet position)...USF&W has a Carte Blanche to do pretty much what it wants.

Lane,

We don't often disagree but in this case there are specific protocols set up that the exporting countries must meet to get CITES clearance and signatory nations must abide by these. If you look at the list of animals and plants that are listed it doesn't appear that animls are selected by outside pressure.

465H&H

The way I understand it, all signatories to CITES have to agree with CITES regulations.

They cannot just decide on their own on what to ban.

As Lane mentioned, the USFW have gone on their own in the past without any good reason.

Saeed,

I may be wrong but it is my understanding that they must ban what CITES requires but they can ban any additional animals that they want to.

465H&H

As I understand it, it isn't the import into the USA that is banned, it is the export out of Moz that will no longer be possible.

Not a USF&W decision, it's a CITES decision. So, no matter what country you live in, you still can't import it.

That was my take on it. I stand to be corrected if anyone has any good info otherwise.

Wendell,

I hope you are not right because missing out on U.S. market will be bad enough...if it's everywhere then that is horrible.

quote:

Originally posted by Zig Mackintosh:
Just to be clear, this is a CITES directive, not USFWS.

Do you know why?

Cannot find reference to it on the CITES website?

quote:

Originally posted by SilentT:
Wendell,

I hope you are not right ...

Me too. I don't often wish to be wrong, but this is one of those times!

Rumors and hearsay are always to be taken with a grain of salt, but when a Mozambique outfitter explains the situation to you, I tend to put some stock in what they say.

CITES "credits" the uplisting to Chinese funded poaching of Hippo, trade in the meat, hide and tusks, ... I have heard.

Not surprising, the Chinese have an insatiable appetite for tusks and other animal products. Couple that with an absolute disrespect for wildlife, a growing Chinese presence all over Africa and an expanding Chinese economy and you have a serious situation.

quote:

Originally posted by Zig Mackintosh:
Just to be clear, this is a CITES directive, not USFWS.

Zig,
As I am sure you know...please post the specifics as they are a bit ambiguous right now.

I am sick of bad news.

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
I am sick of bad news.

There is one thing we can all agree on.

Lane, Matt,

Click on this link for more info.

http://www.cites.org/eng/notif/2012/E059.pdf

I'd be amazed at the amount of knee-jerking in this thread if I hadn't seen it over an over before. If you're one of those guilty, make a note to stay away from hammer guns. They're liable to go off half-cocked in your hands.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:

quote:

Originally posted by SilentT:
Wendell,

I hope you are not right ...

Me too. I don't often wish to be wrong, but this is one of those times!

Rumors and hearsay are always to be taken with a grain of salt, but when a Mozambique outfitter explains the situation to you, I tend to put some stock in what they say.

CITES "credits" the uplisting to Chinese funded poaching of Hippo, trade in the meat, hide and tusks, ... I have heard.

Not surprising, the Chinese have an insatiable appetite for tusks and other animal products. Couple that with an absolute disrespect for wildlife, a growing Chinese presence all over Africa and an expanding Chinese economy and you have a serious situation.

damn, i didn't realize the Chinese liked Kung Pao hippo...

quote:

As Lane mentioned, the USFW have gone on their own in the past without any good reason.

That's what most of our government does. FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) encourages citizens to prepare for disasters and publishes guides on how to do that. Simultaneously, the FBI is asking businesses to report individuals buying the kinds of items you'd want to have for disaster preparedness. There's no rationalizing much addressing the contradictions. It's dyspeptic to say the least.

LWD

quote:

Originally posted by Zig Mackintosh:
Lane, Matt,

Click on this link for more info.

http://www.cites.org/eng/notif/2012/E059.pdf

Thanks Zig!

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
I'd be amazed at the amount of knee-jerking in this thread if I hadn't seen it over an over before. If you're one of those guilty, make a note to stay away from hammer guns. They're liable to go off half-cocked in your hands.

Yessir I hear you!

Stupid me...I did the exact same dam thing when we elected your choice of President too but he has turn out to be such a breath of fresh air!

http://www.huntingreport.com/c...ion_force.cfm?id=270


Mozambique and Cameroon Hippo Trade Suspended by CITES
Written By John J. Jackson III, Conservation Force Chairman & President(posted March 2013)


At the January/February conventions some people, including hunting operators, did not know that the CITES Standing Committee had suspended all trade in hippopotamus from Mozambique and Cameroon in September 2012 until those countries demonstrate that the level of trade is sustainable. Hunters have been calling Conservation Force asking for an explanation of why their hippo trophies are not being shipped. The Law Enforcement Division of USFWS is reported to have walked the floor of the SCI Convention in Reno notifying hunting operators that were advertising hippo hunts. Many were surprised.

A system to review the level of trade of Appendix II species (species threatened or that may become threatened by trade) to ensure it is sustainable (not biologically detrimental to the survival of a trading country’s population of the species) has evolved within the CITES system. It is called the Significant Trade Review Process (SIG). The objective is to keep Appendix II species from becoming Appendix I species. Appendix I species are those endangered by trade. Normally Appendix II species are those that are threatened or may become threatened if trade is not adequately controlled. Appendix II also includes lookalike species that are listed to protect another species that is listed on Appendix I. The hippo was originally listed on Appendix II not because of its status but because its tusks may become a substitute for Appendix I elephant ivory.

Several years ago, Cameroon and Mozambique were sent a written inquiry by the CITES Secretariat at the recommendation of the Animals Committee (AC) that had selected the species for SIG review. The two countries did not respond adequately. After warnings, last March the Animals Committee recommended suspension of Cameroon and Mozambique’s hippo trade, and in July the Standing Committee (SC) acted on that AC recommendation through the Secretariat that issued the two Notices of suspension of trade on September 25, 2012. We attended both the AC and SC meetings and reported on the developments to “insiders” but did not have space to report it here.

Member states of CITES like the United States will refuse the imports until the countries satisfy the Secretariat of CITES that the trade is not detrimental/it is sustainable. The Secretariat will then issue a notice of withdrawal of the suspension and trade will resume. We fully expected that to have already occurred, but it has not.

The resumed trade normally permits trophies already taken before or after the suspension period. That means hunters who have taken hippo before or during the noticed suspension should be able to import their hippo trophies when the respective exporting country satisfies the Secretariat that is implementing the suspension. This can occur in a couple of months but has not occurred yet. Both countries were issued warning notices before the suspension. They must now document that their hippo quota is sustainable before trade resumes.

Cameroon was supposed to reply to the Secretariat by January 4, 2012 (more than a year ago), but had not filed a response when the Standing Committee met in July 2012. (See SC62 Doc. 27.1 (Rev.1) and issued Notice No. 2012/059 September 25, 2012 on CITES website at www.cites.org/eng/notif/valid.php.)

Mozambique had filed a report from a 2008 National Survey of all of its species, which was not adequate without further explanation. According to the September notice issued by the Secretariat, more information is needed

…including details of methodologies employed; and…[j]ustification for, and details of, the scientific basis by which it has been established that the quantities of H. amphibious (hippo) exported were not detrimental to the survival of the species and in compliance with Article IV, paragraphs 2(a) and 3.

In July 2012, Mozambique had made “no response” to this inquiry while the CITES trade database showed that Mozambique exported specimens of hippo in 2009 and 2010, including 204 teeth and 151 trophies that warranted the significant trade review. Of course, that CITES trade data itself may be incorrect, as is often the case. Single teeth have been misunderstood to be full trophies in the past. The Mozambique CITES Management Authority needs to respond. Until it does, it may not be prudent for hunters to take hippo in either country.