Just completed my first Buffalo hunt. After four days of hard hunting, one time being within 30 yards of the herd and not getting a clear shot, I ended up taking my animal at a hundred or so with one shot.

I feel blessed, because the hunt, the experience, was what I went for. To me, IMHO, the hunt is everything. My Buff will likely make the book, but I'm not going to enter him, because I came away from the Selous with exactly what I originally sought...one of the most gratifying experiences of my life, working hard to attain a goal, and having had a wonderful series of experiences with a great PH and the trackers, and experiencing Africa in a way that I was previously unaccustomed.

Having worked in Africa quite a bit over the years in various areas, most of them quite dangerous due to the proliferation of the ubiquitous AK 47 and a bunch of wild-eyed jokers running around looking for no real reason to use them, hunting the Selous was a privilege and a pleasure. My Buffalo was simply the reward for hard work and persistence.

Hunting is many things to many people, whether staring down an animal at five yards and slamming him with a 500 grain solid, or making a surgically precise shot at 340 yards. Neither experience is superior to the other. They are both an opportunity and a privilege that very few are accorded, and it takes a high degree of talent and ability to carry either one off successfully without assistance.

All of us are here because we have one thing in common: we love the hunt. That's why I'll keep returning to Africa until I'm stone broke, or until they throw that first shovelful of dirt into my face.

I do it because I love it, and not because I possess some misplaced sentiment that I must prove anything to anyone, including to myself. I have lived well beyond that.

Elkhunts - Leopards can climb trees and fences with ease (that's why zoos usually keep them in fully caged enclosures). So leopard hunts even in South Africa's fenced game reserves are generally seen by most hunters as fair chase, free roaming, and free range.

Many may feel your comments show a lack of experience in African dangerous game hunting and/or a willingness to adopt a hunting hearsay without doing the research. Most hunters for dangerous game would be well advised to do some solid research on an animal before such a hunt. It's a question of respect for what one hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by The Big Kahuna:
So leopard hunts even in South Africa's fenced game reserves are generally seen by most hunters as fair chase, free roaming, and free range.

Many may feel your comments show a lack of experience in African dangerous game hunting and/or a willingness to adopt a hunting hearsay without doing the research.

Actually bwana, while I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest, I'd say it's your comments that may show a lack of experience in African dangerous game hunting.... esp South African dangerous game hunting - SA leopard (and lion) hunts have had a bad reputation in the industry for dodgy dealings for many years. - It's only since Stewart Dorrington took over the presidency of PHASA that things have started to be cleaned up.

And while I'm posting, without meaning to insult anyone, it's a while since I checked the act for that province, but as far as I'm aware, there's no legal requirement for a parks board official/observer to come along on a leopard hunt - let alone two, nor is there any requirement for two PHs, and unless things have changed recently, nor do SCI accept SA lions in the record book...... and incidentally, (FWIW) PHASA have had a moratorium on hunting with dogs for some years......

Yup, SA Lion hunts have been very controversial for years since the Cook Report video came out in the UK.

But my understanding was that the SA Leopard hunts were not affected (no SCI segmentation of trophies, etc.) because of the very nature of the leopard - they are hard to be kept behind fences (unless perhaps the fence is fully electified; but I have been told that electrified fences often don't contain nor exclude them either).

Indeed, I understand that Leopard hunts in South Africa can cost more than in other areas (say Zimbabwe) because of the SA permiting system which limits the numbers of leopards taken in SA.

The major ethical controversy I am aware of is the use of dogs to hunt leopard. Tristan Peacock brought in the first set of hunting dogs from a well know mountain lion hunter in Colorado, USA. He was hunting in Zimbabwe and triggered a couple of years of copycat hunts there (the number of leopards taken from Zimb rose sharply but there was a lot of debate among the leopard outfitters there about whether using dogs was good or not). Anyway, I believe Mr. Peacock has had some bad luck lately and sold off some of his dogs. It seems the number of leopards hunted with dogs fell off sharply last year (although I understand some leopard dog hunting operations have started up in Namibia).

If my understanding of leopard hunting in SA is wrong, please do correct me. But I thought SA leopard hunts are still regarded very highly within the hunting world?

bttt

Pictures added check them no matter what you opion.

A friend of mine, PH Wille le Roux, hunts leopard in the Stoffberg area, not two hours from Johannesburg airport. The hunting is done by baiting, like any PH would do it in Zim or Moz or Tanzania. NO other way is used, and take my word for it, these leopard roam the land freely. Granted, they get only 2/3 Cites permits per year, if they are lucky.

About the Lion.....SCI are NOT scoring Lion from SA....

Lion or lioness?

quote:

You also have to have 2 Game wardens and 2 pro hunters.

When did this law come into effect? I am guessing the PHs did not have a dangerous game licence, thats why the crowd went along.
Don_G, I had 3 bow hunts for buffalo last year, (in South Africa), and can tell you that I will not do it again without the client signing a contract stating that he will pay for the buffalo if I have to shoot it in defence of human life. We were charged at least 5 times, the buffalo always stopping at 8-10 yards, with me starting to take up the pressure on the trigger already. These were unwounded buff, though very "human imprinted", as they have been caught and tested as part of a "clean" buffalo breeding project. Although wild, I think the experience a few weeks before we hunted there, pissed them off big time!

Karl,

Sounds like a place where I would not like to hunt with a bow!

The requirements for government game scouts is common in countries like Tanzania (as you know). But at least in Tanzania the hunter only has to pay for game he shoots at. There if an unwounded animal has to be killed in self-defense (and the game scout agrees it was self-defense) then the hunter does not have to pay for it. Of course, those animals are not a farmer's private property.

I can't envision hunting buffalo in RSA to begin with, but I'd surely never hunt them on a farm where the farmer made me sign a release making me pay for any of his livestaock that had to be killed in self-defense!

I'd hate to pay $20,000 for an aggro one-horned cow!

quote:

but I'd surely never hunt them on a farm where the farmer made me sign a release making me pay for any of his livestaock that had to be killed in self-defense!
I'd hate to pay $20,000 for an aggro one-horned cow!

I agree with that Don, but I have to disagree with buffalo in general in the RSA. Though I much prefer to hunt buffalo with clients in Zimbabwe or Caprivi, or any other wild area, there is some places where you can have a great hunt for buffalo in the RSA, and there is also the added bonus of being able to hunt some great plains game while there. (Although, granted, these venues are few and far between.) For instance, I have an area bordering one of RSA's largest dams (shoreline of about 15 miles), of total close to 40 000 acres, with a quota of 7 bulls to be hunted for 2007. Though these buffalo are more used to humans due to population densities, they are definately not canned, and I myself do consider it a fair hunt. As to paying the 20K for a one horned cow, I do take out insurance for such little mishaps, but yes, in general I would prefer to only hunt outside of RSA..., but the market dictates that I also hunt there.

Ken Moody ... Lightning ...

I love this place.

Congratulations for hunting with primitive weapons and for the trophys canned or not is dangerous hunting .Besides that i must desagree with my friend Jaco ,hunting cats with dogs is at least as sportmanship as taken it from a bait ,indeed i believe its more dangerous and you need to put more energy after the cat ,here we hunt pumas baiting and with dogs and the only charges i experimented where by dog hunting.Bsides that i have some friends that hunted Botswana and they told me nothing compares to track and hnut leopards with dogs there ,and they killed some leopards by baiting too ..Juan

Saeed, from my limited experience - 1 bufffalo hunt in the Omay - the best meal from a buffalo (total 3 meals) was indeed from the tail, go figure.

What is with the right front paw of the lion? Did I miss something?

quote:

Originally posted by Don_G:

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:

The fact that a rifle is required seems to indicate that there is recognition that a crossbow is not an effective tool against dangerous game. No matter how well you shoot with it.

To claim a trophy under these circumstances if to me pretty hollow. I could hunt with a spear, hit an animal with a spear, or a throwing knife for that matter, and have the PH "finish" it with a rifle. Have I the right to claim a successful hunt? In my book, no. But that is just me.

Jim,

I have to differ with you on this.

I hunted cape buffalo with a bow this year. I did not get one, but when I was sitting 6 feet from a 3 year old bull with my bow I did not feel like I was missing anything as far as quality of the experience. That young bull was eating the bush I was hiding behind! I could hear his breath, smell his breath and feel his breath on my cheek. There was a cow eating from the same bush about ten feet away. When they got spooked by an elephant about 20 yards away, I was disappointed, but definitely exhiliarated by the experience. I would not trade that experience for the two buffs I did get with a rifle.

By the way, I was hunting with my bow after having taken 10 shots from a 416 Rem to put down my previous buff. Neither I nor the PH thought that it was a "stunt" to keep trying to get a shot with the bow.

I had demonstrated to the PH on the previous carcases that I could get through-and-through penetration with my arrows - all that counts after that is shot placement, just like with a rifle.

It took you 10 shots with a 416 Rem but why did it take you 10 shots?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by blaser93:
A Close friend of Mine Who we have been hunting Partners for ten years. He went to Africa this year without me.He just came back
and has taken after Drying what should be the #1
Lion taken with a Crossbow. Also he has taken a Leopard should be #2 with a Crossbow.The animals have been scored by a Master scorer for SCI . The hunters Name is Butch Meilinger of
North American Fair Chase and International.
He was hunting with INGOGO Safaris of all days South Africa.I will post pictures as soon as I get them. [/QUOTE

I hope he enjoyed himself on the hunt, but have there been anymore lions entered with a crossbow.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by JJ_Miller:
Saeed, I guess he taped them for the same reason some here shoot their cape buff at 120 yrds + and call it " dangerous game " hunting. At 20 yrds its hunting dangerous game. At 120 yrds its shooting an animal that has the potential to be dangerous. Its all in how you look at it........................JJ

The furthest I have shot a buffalo was measured aftewards at over 340 yards!

And I can tell you that was one of the most dangerous buffalo hunts I have ever had too! I almost stepped on a black mamba in one of the korongos as we were trying to get close to them.

So don't tell me it is not dangerous hunting buffalo at long range

SAEED, The dangerous game, in this case, was quite close, but it wasn't the Buffalo!

Gentlemen, I've hunted with everything from a sharp stick, to a 155 howetzer, animals from bullfrog to the largest thing on land, and to the most dangerous animal on Earth with a quad-50cal turret gun. I've hunted from foot, to out of a M-42 tank, with a lot of back-up, and pleanty of the BY MYSELF hunting and including the dangerous game, to following my own dogs dogs after bear, and lion,alone, to standing a charge, stopped at 3 yds from my toes,of a old angry cape buffalo, to shooting at, and sometimes hitting P-dogs at a measured 450 yds, and a mule deer at across a canyon at a lazored 400yds, and I don't appologise to anyone for my hunting,my method, or my ethics!

I simply don't do things I consider to be unethical! NOW! Some of the ways I've hunted may be considered un-ethical to others here, but that is their problem, because my conscience is clear! I've never regestered a trophy in my life, and the size of a trophy is not why I consider an animal to be a trophy. If "I" am sattisfied with the conditions of "my" hunt, then it was a good and honest hunt!


The reasons a person hunts, because man is a born hunter, the methods he uses are the ones that work for him, and what he hunts, depends on what his needs are from hunting. IMO, the hunter, no matter the target, ultimetly hunts only himself, in the end!

The cats that started this string are both beautiful cats, and if the man who took them is sattisfied, then it was his HUNT, and it was a success, and he has to answer to nobody here!

Blaser,
Beautiful cats...what did that Leopard weigh?

I could be wrong but I think he said 120 lbs.

MacD37 i agree totally with you ,period.Juan

Theres is zero affinity or connection between canned lions and leopards, totally different animals, different set up...lions in Alldays...I aggree, the chance of free-ranging I slight, but leopards....who 'cans these'? leopards can 'free-range' in variety of places.

Previous posters who refered to SA leopards as canned????? You need to present better info...

quote:

Originally posted by The Big Kahuna:
Elkhunts - Leopards can climb trees and fences with ease (that's why zoos usually keep them in fully caged enclosures). So leopard hunts even in South Africa's fenced game reserves are generally seen by most hunters as fair chase, free roaming, and free range.

Many may feel your comments show a lack of experience in African dangerous game hunting and/or a willingness to adopt a hunting hearsay without doing the research. Most hunters for dangerous game would be well advised to do some solid research on an animal before such a hunt. It's a question of respect for what one hunts.

the big kahuna,

my experience in south africa along with extensive research is precisely why i can comment on the canned hunts.

i've hunted wild game in north america for many,many years (never fenced) and know what a fair chase hunt entails.have you ever actually hunted unfenced game ?

respect doesnt come into play in un-ethical hunts.i respect the animal ! i have no respect for its captor who placed it in a cage for an un-suspecting " hunter " to kill, after it is released just prior to the hunter aquiring proximity.

i have no doubts a leopard can escape from a pen , but i seriously doubt they can escape a cage.

in south africa hunters bliss is IGNORANCE.

i DO NOT have to spend 10's of thousands on s.a. dangerous game hunts to gain enough experience to know i've been ripped off.

earlier this eve i saw on yahoo news a story entitled " south africa bans canned animal hunts". i'm sorry i dont have a link but i'm sure a quick search on your part will turn up that fresh story.

a little research on your end will be eye popping as to canned hunting in s.a.

elkhunts

elkhunts,

can you list some of the leopard breeders in SA? It woudn't surprise me to find out that they do breed them, but I've never heard of it before.

quote:

Originally posted by Ivan:
elkhunts,

can you list some of the leopard breeders in SA? It woudn't surprise me to find out that they do breed them, but I've never heard of it before.

sorry ivan, can't list specific breeders.i've read about leopard and cheeta breeders in the northwest and northern cape provinces,but memory just doesnt serve.i dont really need to get wary as anything regarding south africa will NOT see my hard earned money anymore.i only take a macro look for entertainment purposes.hope that helps a little with your research though.

i'm primarily referring to the practice of outfitters aquiring a captive or (actually) wild leopard in advance of a hunt and then releasing said animal just prior to a hunter showing up at a release point to make a kill.

tame leopards can can be aquired from any breeding project or zoo after their breeding or tourist value diminishes for a price.you might inquire at the hoedspruit cheeta project as to what happens to their leopards as they age.i doubt u will get a straight answer though. i doubt if many game animals die naturally of old age in s.a., its all about money.

if it can be bred and released for a trophy fee, look no further than south africa.

elkhunts