The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting So YOU think you are an expert?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Many who post here have commented, correctly, that we go on our first hunt, in one area, in one African Country, as a wet behind the ears novice and return an expert on hunting in Africa. As someone with two hunts in the same area of one African country, with the same PH and outfitter, I know that I'm not an expert. I have some limited experience that I can pass on, but it only relates to the circunstances that I have experienced. On the other hand, there are true experts on African Hunting, some of them post here. My questuion is "What defines an expert on African hunting"? Anybody want to chew on this? I just thought we could use a break from who did what to who and why my CRF/pushfeed is better than your pushfeed/CRF TerryR | ||
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I will take a swing at it. I think Craig Boddington once wrote "The more I travel to Africa, the less I know about it." No truer words have ever been spoken, whether it was Boddington or not, makes no difference. Terry, you are right. You can know about one particular area, and become sort of familiar with it, but how well do you know that area? If someone came to my ranch for a week and we hunted everything there, I would hesitate to call him an expert on that area of Texas. Compared to the ph, you are still a novice on that exact area of Africa. Kind of puts it in perspective. | |||
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I think you nailed part of your answer with the experience part... If a safari is a puppet show, then it's the PH who is largely pulling the strings, which is to say that he has rules and proven ideas for making your hunt a success. Many of those same ideas/practices are present with other PH's. They're not accountants, but they do adhere to similar "accounting practices", if you will. So you don't have to go on too many safaris to become an "expert" on the experience, insomuchas you can relate your experience to others and condition them for what they should expect. To be a true expert on African hunting, you either have to hunt more than i can afford to, or you have to live there and / or be a PH. That's the only way I can see gaining enough experience to be an expert. | |||
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I have heard it said an expert was anybody who was 20 miles from home and had an opinion. When I was working and had to go to Greensburg to our plant there I was considered an "expert" not because I knew the area but because I knew the job. You have to define what an expert is. It does not necessarily have to do with experience only, but with knowledge also. I was trained as a gunsmith 50 years ago but never made my living at it. I have been to Africa 8 times to hunt mostly in the same areas of Zimbabwe. I don't necessarily consider myself an "expert" on either firearms or african hunting but I have seen many "professionals" in africa who were definitely NOT "experts" either. Please quantify the term before we start a big hurrah about who is or who isn't. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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I thought it was more than 30 miles from home with a briefcase.  jim if you're too busy to hunt,you're too busy. | |||
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We also face the opposite problem. I see many comments on here that reject the suitability of certain techniques or products by so called African experts because they have not traditional been used there. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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There are no experts in the field of hunting Africa. There may be "specialists" who know a lot about a certain area or outfitter. But even the specialists (unless they live there and are actively involved in the business) can only offer a "picture frozen in time". What it was like when they were there. Everyone has their own biases, preferences and dislikes. The best you can expect is to get a wide ranging sample of opinions. Utilize that information as you then see fit. All opinions are biased in one way or the other. Some because of pecuniary interests, some because of limited knowledge and some because of ignorance. It's just like reading a newspaper, even the news articles can be slanted by the editorial view of the publisher. The internet is an amazing creature. It contains a wealth of information, a sizeable amount of opinion and a truck load of crap. Your job is to sort through it all and glean only the choicest grains. Regards, Terry  Msasi haogopi mwiba [A hunter is not afraid of thorns] | |||
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i'm about to leave on my 9th trip & i'm convinced that i know less than the 1st, by the way just what is an expert anything? | |||
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When I was 21 an expert was ---ME. Now that i'm in my 50's I'm beginning to realize that an expert is someone who is fooling himself. So if there are no experts who's advice is worth listening to? TerryR | |||
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Depends on what you want to know. Best DGR rifle - there isn't just one correct answer. Best leopard hunting - there isn't just one correct answer. Best PH - there isn't just one correct answer. Best country for plains game - there isn't just one correct answer. Best _____ - well, you get the picture. The best advice depends, to a large degree, on what you want to hear. What are your preferences, preconceptions and expectations? Remember, the listener has his own biases as well. (How's that for a Zen-like answer? )Regards, Terry Msasi haogopi mwiba [A hunter is not afraid of thorns] | |||
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Hell, I find a lot of so called PHs don’t know their ass from a hole in a tree so a client who pontificates to be an expert should be questioned. Like everything else, a little experience can be a bad thing because you then think you know it all. I know folks who go to the same RSA farm year after year who think they know everything about hunting in Africa - they don't. The bottom line is I don’t equate part time PHs nor young PHs as knowing much of anything. The older guys who worked for the parks board or did animal control work know their stuff and are worth listening to. Beyond that, it’s all just varying shades of opinion... | |||
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I will be conducting a seminar entitled, "Interpretive Inference, Perceptual Distortion and Cognitive Dysfunction: How These Factors Affect Your Safari Choices". Everyone is invited to attend. It will be held at 3:00PM in Room 375 of the Holland and Holland Building. Free parking is available on the north side of the building. Regards, Terry Msasi haogopi mwiba [A hunter is not afraid of thorns] | |||
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Terry! Will coffee and doughnuts be served? 465H&H  | |||
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There are snack and soda machines on the ground floor of the building. Regards, Terry Msasi haogopi mwiba [A hunter is not afraid of thorns] | |||
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Help me understand how this thread offers a "break"  Must be the full moon, or cabin fever, or both. Doesn't anybody have any stories to tell, pictures to post, quandaries to be solved, wonders of Africa to share??? It's much too tense around here lately  (well, except for Terry Carr, who is always fun when he has a hunt in the works!!!) | |||
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No Coffee? No tea? No doughnuts? Westley Richards treats you better then that. Also you get to go to Montana instead of New York! CHEERS! 465H&H | |||
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Goody, an American restaurant.  *** When I post crap on here it is not being an expert and never professed to be one. In fact I usually tell people I'm a novice. Will be till the day I die, hopefully well in the future. Experiences are fun remembering though and I'm here to have fun. Some guys sometimes post that they're here to learn from experts and all this other stuff is chaff and unnecessary. I really enjoyed the silly "fez" thread which is totally useless BTW. Well no one is being paid any moolah to post their "expert advice" here, some are here to sell things/services sure, but generally in life you get the value you pay for. HOWEVER I have learned a lot from people here and had good fun learning it. Waffle turned back off ... | |||
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Actually it was me who wrote that.... Craig just stole it | |||
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We are all Ex-Spurts | |||
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I am not an expert! I have been once. I have learned from that experience and from the good folks on this forum and others I have hunted with. What I learn, I try to share as best I can. I think that is what the majority of us try to do here each day. Learn and share. Going once or twice doesn't make you the best, however there are lessons learned that would help those who have never been. Just my opine. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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That's a Has-been drip under pressure for you folks from Rio Linda Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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Lets define "expert" Ex being a has been and spurt, well I will let you draw your own conclusions.... All of us who have been to Africa many times can only pass on our advise be it right, wrong or indifferent, take what you like and leave what you like because in the end it all makes very little difference..  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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No, that's a consultant. Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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The more you hunt and spend time in the bush the more you learn. The more you learn the more you find out how much more there are to learn. It is a circle of ever expanding knowledge. Even in the same area things keep on changing. A person with lots of knowledge yes, an expert no. Life is how you spend the time between hunting trips. Through Responsible Sustainable hunting we serve Conservation. Outfitter permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/73984 PH permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/81197 Jaco Human SA Hunting Experience jacohu@mweb.co.za www.sahuntexp.com | |||
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Webster's defines EXPERT, as "having, involving, or displaying a special skill or knowledge, derived from training". I think this site is full of experts, but as Terry Carr said, it depends on what you want to learn. I have not yet made a trek to Africa, but when I do, I feel like I will be better prepared because of the advice I have gleened from the experts on this site. From the years I have visited this site, I would certainly consider certain individuals experts on hunting in Africa, such as Ray Atkinson. But perhaps more important to the folks coming hear to learn, is the advice on the "non-hunting" things like what to pack and how to get there safely. I think those of us considering a trip to Africa, at least have somewhat of a handle on the hunting part, but it is the non-hunting issues where expertise is so very needed, because it is those parts of the whole situation that can make or break the experience. Just my opinion. DGK Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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The first time I hunted in Africa, I didn't even know there were BBS's like this one. I went over as a babe who needed to be led around by a leash. I've learned more on this site about Africa and African hunting than I have by hunting there. JD | |||
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Perhaps the forum is the expert. The collective expriences of those who post create a synergy. | |||
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I'm really just killing time while I wait for Noel to show up and air the dirty laundry regarding her fiance and their buffalo hunt with a 45-70. | |||
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I think that Africa and the African hunting industry are just too big and diverse and everything changes far too quickly for anyone to truly be an expert on the entire subject. sure you can have a lot of experience and sure one man or woman can see a fair bit of it.........but an expert? ....No. I've been kicking around Africa and African animals for 25 years and even after all that I'm still learning about how much more there is to learn............but the learning is a shed load of fun!!!!!!  About the only truism that I can think of offhand about Africa is "Never say never and never say always" | |||
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True statements on all counts. I have learned a lot from this sight. It is a great source of information. I also freely share the little I know. Experts....maybe not, but the collective knowledge and sources of information from people on this sight is immense. If you want an answer or a source of information you can usually find it here. It really is the best source of information out there on any given day. Thanks to everyone who contributes. The one statement that is most true is the more I learn the more I realize how little I know. Happiness is a warm gun | |||
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An expert? No way, not even in the remotest sense! But there are a few individuals here who approach that and I learn something new here every day on AR. You never stop learning in the field of hunting, shooting, loading, ballistics, etc. .22 LR Ruger M77/22 30-06 Ruger M77/MkII .375 H&H Ruger RSM | |||
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Terry I can't believe you asked that question. If you've seriously considered shooting something sometime in Africa, you consider yourself an expert. Being an expert can't be confused with having actual hunting experience, especially on the internet, we're all experts. I've been there once, so I'm a treasure trove of information about African hunting. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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I was at a meeting years ago at a Catholic hospital, and one of the nun administrators introduced the consultannt of the hour thusly: Do you know what a consultant is, a guy who knows everything there is to know about sex but doesn't know any women. Wouldn't you have loved to have been introduced like that? Bob | |||
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I too think anyone can learn more in "X" months from this site thanks due to the many contributors than you can learn in several trips to Africa. If you hang out here for awhile before going you will not be near as green as if you just showed up over there. If you hang out here in between trips you will learn how to use your current mouse trap better. Now...I have hunted with some very knowledgable folks over the years and I do not know a one of them that did not learn something each day. One thing I remember from my little round buddy Geo. Hoffman was that most leopard baits are hung from the wrong side of the limb. If you do it correctly then the leopard will have his butt to you when he reaches down to get the bait and not two beady eyes looking right at you thru the peep hole in the shooting blind. Now when I see a video or photo of a leopard on the bait I can tell right off if the current Expert knew window putty from Shinola! I pick up valuable little tricks from this site every month from someone who like Ford "Has a better idea!" One thing I have learned for sure...don't bet you can ride a zebra! You can borrow money but you can not borrow time. Go hunting with your family. | |||
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The longer I live, the less I'm sure of! Ask a lot of questions, keep your opinion to yourself, then and only then do you learn. Swift, Silent, & Friendly | |||
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Another definition of an expert is one who has already made all the mistakes possible. In Africa, I think if you already made all the mistakes possible you have been pushin up daisies for some time. Lets face it. Whitetail hunting offers much fewer opportunities to meet your maker. Some mistakes with big pachyderms, snakes or insurgents will be your last mistake. I have much to learn. The fewer mistakes the better. Although cartridge selection is important there is nothing that will substitute for proper first shot placement. Good hunting, "D" | |||
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The problem with Africa is that North America would fit into Africa a half-dozen times. The place is huge, and no one (not even James Mellon) has hunted it all even once. There are some experienced PH's who have hunted as many as a half-dozen countries, and there are amateurs who have hunted a dozen countries or more. There are certainly experts on certain African animals, 'cause they don't change their habits much from one area to another. But there really aren't any true "African experts," and I don't think any real PH would ever claim to be. | |||
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Well said by all! Craig definitly got it right in the fewest words. ~Ann   | |||
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Yep for that matter there aren't any North American hunting experts either. You are not going to learn to Turkey Call from someone who has lived in Alaska all their life. Nor are you going to learn the finer points of Caribou hunting from an Alabama boy | |||
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Yes, but how about snipe hunting in Michigan with a gunny sack?  .395 Family Member DRSS, po' boy member Political correctness is nothing but liberal enforced censorship | |||
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