Steve: I showed Dawna the picture you posted and without hesitation she said "hey, that looks like Dande! jorge

Terry,

Taking two rifles is a pain in the a**, but I still think it is a good idea. Only took one rifle once (the double) and sure enough, along came an opportunity to hunt an animal for which a scope was needed. Of course though the camp rifle had a scope, it was a piece of junk that did not operate properly.

FWIW, I'd never go with just one rifle.

byf42,

Distance of the shot could be anywhere from under a 100 yards to over 200 yards. Sable tend to like more open areas, so the shot could be long.

Nick,

We will be hunting in mid-June.

AKA,

Which camp in Dande? We spent most of our time at Mukanga and a few nights at Mururu. Also dropped by Pedza Pasi a couple of times during the day.


Regards,

Terry

Terry,

Have you found out if there's a loner rifle in camp?

If so, proceed with Plan A.

If not, take 'em both...

Have a large time no matter what you decide!

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
Ladies and Gentlemen,

We are headed to ZIM this season for a 12 day safari with Swainson's in Dande North with PH Kevin du Boil (a repeat of our safari last season).

We are going to concentrate on buffalo and sable. Hopefully, I won't miss the shot on the sable like I did last season. We also have zebra, kudu and bushbuck on quota. We will only go after those animals as targets of opportunity while hunting buffalo or sable (or if we have time, after taking buffalo and sable).

So I am thinking, no need to drag along the .416 and the .375. Really it seems to me the best option is just take the .375. Plenty of power for the buffalo and perfect for the plainsgame. I'll probably use solids on the bushbuck as I want a full mount.

The only risk is that it is a one gun safari. So I better check and see if they have a loaner rifle in camp, in case something happens to my .375.

What do you think of my plan?

Regards,

Terry

Terry,

Why take the risk regardless? Do you need the space for luggage or curios? Never forget that Mr Murphy is often an uninvited observer... I vote on taking two rifles.

I don't cross the street with less than two rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
I don't cross the street with less than two rifles.

Forest, if Terry decides to take one of the two rifles ... which one?

I will be the lone decenter here and say if you can shoot the 416 well I'd take it. I personally don't believe that the 375 H&H has plenty of power for buffalo. In fact I think it's border line for buffalo. I don't think it's a problem on a nice open broad side shot with plenty of open tracking ground but in the thick stuff I much prefer the 416. You should have no problem killing your sable out to 200 yds or so with the 416 either. I killed one last year very dead with a 338 win mag so any well placed shot would do (like any other animal). I have hunted across Tanzania, Zimbabwe and South Africa and never took more than one gun although I have taken an extra scope several times and once asked the PH to bring a spare rifle just in case. I did have a hunting partner that had a custom mauser fail to fed the second shot on a buffalo but we corrected the problem back at camp. But everything else aside TAKE THE RIFLE WITH WHICH YOU ARE CONFIDENT.

Nick, I don't want any involvement if he misses a sable again.

He said he didn't shoot the 416 as well as the 375, so I'd advise him to take the 375. If I were limited to one rifle, I'd take a 416 Rem with a 2.5-8X scope.

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:

So I am thinking, no need to drag along the .416 and the .375.

...

The only risk is that it is a one gun safari. So I better check and see if they have a loaner rifle in camp, in case something happens to my .375.

Sounds like it is time to sell the .416 and by a second .375. Personally I would not want to have an expensive safari ride on some of the loaner guns I have seen.

Before I get a reputation as a bad shot and afraid of recoil, let me say that I am no David Tubb. But neither do I close my eyes and grit my teeth before I pull the trigger. What I meant when I said, "I'm more comfortable in my shooting abilities with the .375..." was that I have only used my .416 on buffalo and elephant at less than 100 yards. I have taken a few head of game out to 250-275 yards with the .375. So, if presented with a long shot on a sable, I would be more comfortable with the .375.

Regards,

Terry

P.S.
Have you noticed that we are on Page 2 of a topic full of differing views and no one has called anybody names?

Terry
Last year i found that my 416 rem with 350 tsx shot a lot flatter than the 270 gr tsx in 375.
With a 200 yard zero the 270gr would drop almost 13" the 350 gr .416 would drop only 8 or 9. on lighter game a you won't get a lot more damage to the pelts.

jd

Just take the 375 and an extra scope. Ive been doing that since I lugged two rifles to africa and never took the second one out of camp.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by T.Carr:

So I am thinking, no need to drag along the .416 and the .375.

...

The only risk is that it is a one gun safari. So I better check and see if they have a loaner rifle in camp, in case something happens to my .375.
/QUOTE]

Sounds like it is time to sell the .416 and by a second .375. Personally I would not want to have an expensive safari ride on some of the loaner guns I have seen.

Dan, I assume you are joking, but I don't know if you can take two rifles of the same caliber through RSA and into Zim any more. As you know, there are some African countries that will not allow two rifles of the same caliber (supposedlt to prevent bringing in one that a PH obtained elsewhere, or to prevent one being brought as a "tip").

Not directed to Dan, but the biggest rifle related problems I have had are related to the rifles being misplaced in Joburg. It doesn't matter if you carry one, two, or three if they don't show up when you get there. I had to borrow a rifle to start one hunt, and have lost several days of hunting waiting on rifles.

On the other side of the coin, if your rifle arrives, but your checked bag with the ammo doesn't, the 375 is the easiest of the DG calibers to find in Africa.

I now use a Tuffpak for travel, so taking two rifles is not much harder than taking one (other than the extra 18 pounds of rifle, ammo, and soft case ), and last year I took a 375 and a 416. The 416 never left camp .

Jim

You also have two other options:

1. A shotgun (any francolin, guinea fowl, sand grouse, waterfowl?)

2. A light rifle (a .300 Win. Mag. or similar) for the PG, after taking your buffalo.

Cheers,
CL

quote:

Originally posted by mbogo375:
I don't know if you can take two rifles of the same caliber through RSA and into Zim any more.
Jim

was not a problem in nov '05

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
P.S. Have you noticed that we are on Page 2 of a topic full of differing views and no one has called anybody names?

Shhhh...You're going to jinx it!

Also, Terry, you might remember I posted that on my last trip I completely missed on my first three shots - including a 50-yard broadside shot at a Kudu.

Don't take seriously any shooting advice I may offer.

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:

quote:

Originally posted by mbogo375:
I don't know if you can take two rifles of the same caliber through RSA and into Zim any more.
Jim

was not a problem in nov '05

If you are overnighting in RSA, as I am, I don't believe the same hunter can take two rifles of the same caliber into RSA.

Regards,

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by mbogo375:

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:

So I am thinking, no need to drag along the .416 and the .375.

...

The only risk is that it is a one gun safari. So I better check and see if they have a loaner rifle in camp, in case something happens to my .375.

Sounds like it is time to sell the .416 and by a second .375. Personally I would not want to have an expensive safari ride on some of the loaner guns I have seen.

Dan, I assume you are joking, but I don't know if you can take two rifles of the same caliber through RSA and into Zim any more.

Not joking at all. RSA is a problem, but if you just change planes in Joberg then it is no problem to take 2 rifles of the same caliber into Zim because (i) RSA will not check the rifles, and (ii) Zim will not care.

Hey Terry,
Dont you find it a bit ironic that after all the threads on dangerous game calibers that you are entertaining the idea of taking a 375 and only a 375 for a buffalo and sable safari?? The old addage is use one gun and use it well. I just booked a hunt with Rory Muil for august and guess what, Im just taking the 375.

Can someone explain why taking two rifles (different calibers) is so much more trouble than taking one?

You don't have to carry twice as many gun cases; all of mine hold (at least) 2 long guns.

You don't have to go through the SAPS office twice, do you?

You don't have to pay any fee in RSA, so not paying it twice isn't an issue.......

So where is the extra drudgery added by taking a second rifle?

We drove to Texas last month to hunt deer and had, I believe, 11 guns in the car for three people for three days...but maybe that's just us........

Terry
I would take 2 guns. Use whichever one you want as your primary, but I would not go that far with only one rifle.
I have been on several hunts where the second rifle was never taken out of the case, but I was always I had the second rifle along..... Just in case.

Take two guns. Shoot the Sable and Buff with the 416.

Use the 375 for PG other than the Sable.

To be on a safe side, you should bring three rifles. Joking apart, one rifle in .375 (or 9,3 X 62, resp. 9,3 X 74 R) is ideal. That's all you need. Just make sure that the telescope and its mount are first-class.

Wendell, your recommendation on the 416 for sable peaked my curiosity. Can you expand on your thoughts? jorge

PS: regarding the "civility" of this thread, it appears the "Joey Butafouco" crowd is not present. This is a great thread, reminiscent of the AR we all enjoyed in the past. THANKS!

Terry: I used my .416 on bushbuck, gemsbok and zebra two years ago and with no serious damage to the animals. The bushbuck received a raking shot that destroyed the backstraps but the skin was fine. The .375 is probably fine -and I´ve never hunted buff- but the .416 should give you an edge that the .375 doesn´t have. IMO

quote:

Originally posted by LRH270:
Can someone explain why taking two rifles (different calibers) is so much more trouble than taking one?

You don't have to carry twice as many gun cases; all of mine hold (at least) 2 long guns.

You don't have to go through the SAPS office twice, do you?

You don't have to pay any fee in RSA, so not paying it twice isn't an issue.......

So where is the extra drudgery added by taking a second rifle?

We drove to Texas last month to hunt deer and had, I believe, 11 guns in the car for three people for three days...but maybe that's just us........

You make a very good point, exept for the added weight of the second rifle in the Tuffpak, there really is not much difference in taking one or two rifles.

Regards,

Terry

My personal choice If I had to take only one gun, I would take the .416, that is if you shoot it well and the recoil does not bother you. The .375 as you know is adequate for the buffalo in every circumstance except for one.....(if it turns dangerous) and that is the one where you do not want to be undergunned. You know how ol'e Murphy acts and if you are carrying the .375 for the buff you will invariably need the .416!!
My first two safaris to Zimbabwe I carried a .450 Ackley and a .375. I took something like 17 animals between those two safaris from Stienbock to Buffalo, and the only time I used the .375 was on a Leapord.
I throughly enjoy shooting heavy rifles and never had a problem shooting anything with the big gun......
Plus I felt quite adequate walking around the bush not knowing what was around the next corner, when I was carrying "enough gun"

Jorge, I agree, this is the type of thread that was prevelent when a joined a few years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by LRH270:
Can someone explain why taking two rifles (different calibers) is so much more trouble than taking one?

You don't have to carry twice as many gun cases; all of mine hold (at least) 2 long guns.

You don't have to go through the SAPS office twice, do you?

You don't have to pay any fee in RSA, so not paying it twice isn't an issue.......

So where is the extra drudgery added by taking a second rifle?

We drove to Texas last month to hunt deer and had, I believe, 11 guns in the car for three people for three days...but maybe that's just us........

There is less space and weight available to bring back "tourist junk" . Just kidding, but on the trip back from Tanzania I had four Masai lion spears, seven large Masai knives, and a pair of wooden carvings in my Tuffpak (most as gifts for friends). With all the other things in there it was just over 69 pounds . Yes, I did have two rifles, but only the 375 left camp.

This also brings up another good thing to take. A small hand-held scale like fishermen use to weigh fish can save a lot of hassle and overweight charges when repacking for the trip home.

My personal advice is that if you feel more comfortable with two rifles, then take two, especially if using wooden stocks (as that is the part most likely to break irretrievably during transport or hunting). I have had a bit of amateur gunsmithing experience, and feel comfortable with fixing most small problems which might crop up during a hunt with the few extra parts and spare scope with rings and bases that I carry. With a spare scope, an extra firing pin, and spare trigger assembly, plus a few tools, you can take care of almost any problem that might occur. One other problem that might possibly happen is a broken bolt handle, but the chances of this are pretty remote on a tried and tested rifle. If an elephant steps on your rifle and bends the barrel, you have bigger problems to deal with than whether you have a spare rifle .

I also never carry a primary rifle without iron sights that are sighted in before the hunt with the most important ammo for that hunt (considering that I usually take more than one load if I am hunting DG and plainsgame). I normally develop my 375 loads so that when the 300 grain load is dead on at 100 yards, the 250 or 270 grain will be about 3/4" to 1 1/2" higher, therefore zeroed at a longer range for plainsgame. This works out very well for most combo hunts, and I have used this method to take game from a few yards all the way to over 350 yards. I have more opinions on ammo, but since no one likely is interested, I will refrain from posting them here .

Back in the "good ol' days" it was no problem to just take two rifles of the same caliber, but with the newer regulations you do stand some risk if traveling through RSA. Last year my flight from the US was late arriving in Joburg, and I had to overnight there. If I had taken two 375's instead of a 375 and 416, I could have been in for a real hassle.

Also be aware that some countries limit the allowable number of rounds for one caliber to 100 regardless of air line baggage allowance (no bringing extra for the PH ). They WILL at times count the number of rounds, so be precise as to the exact number on your declaration, both on entering AND LEAVING the country.

Sorry about the long post. Other than the first paragraph, which was a joking reply to LRH270, the rest is just general observations and experience (I know that Terry already knows all this anyway, but I thought it might be of interest to someone).

Jim

While I am not an experienced big game hunter, I have travelled about the world quite a bit to shoot bird game. I usually take two shotguns with me, and with the proper case, the extra gun is really not a problem. Permits are no more difficult for two guns than for one. Weight is about the only serious issue.

I have also travelled with only one gun, for the sake of simplicity and have enjoyed the somewhat reduced hassle.

In all my years of travel, I have never had a gun fail and thus have never needed the redundancy of two guns. Just the same, I always feel more secure knowing I have a backup, and that usually offsets the nuisance of carrying two guns.

Terry
I would wager that more Buffalo have been taken with 375 than any other caliber. It works fine on Buffalo if you do your part. It will also handle any plains game that you would desire, even squrrel.
I, personally, prefer to take a backup, usually a 30-06, but I have gone on a one gun safari, with a 375, and wouldn't hesitate to do so again.

TerryR

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
I don't cross the street with less than two rifles.

LOL!!

seriously, does your 375 H&H or your 416 have a scope? if not, do you plan on taking another rilfe, say a 338 that is? I agree, take two rifles!!!

btw... good luck! be sure to post some pics of your hunt, i'm really rather envious!! Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:

The only risk is that it is a one gun safari. So I better check and see if they have a loaner rifle in camp, in case something happens to my .375.

What do you think of my plan?

Regards,

Terry

On my last trip to RSA (May, 2005), I took only one rifle with me, that being my .300 Weatherby. If I had been going to include Cape buffalo in the plan, I would have had no hesitation to use only a .375 H&H instead. My PH had a couple of rifles he would be happy to loan me in a pinch.
On the first trip (2003), I took an impala with my .416 Rem. Mag. using a solid. Tissue damage was minimal. The impala was very dead. Perhaps the .416 is a bit on the overkill side where impala is concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
byf42,

Distance of the shot could be anywhere from under a 100 yards to over 200 yards. Sable tend to like more open areas, so the shot could be long.

Nick,

We will be hunting in mid-June.

AKA,

Which camp in Dande? We spent most of our time at Mukanga and a few nights at Mururu. Also dropped by Pedza Pasi a couple of times during the day.


Regards,

Terry

Terry, I was at the Pedza Pasi camp..5 min from the airstrip.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Steve: I showed Dawna the picture you posted and without hesitation she said "hey, that looks like Dande! jorge

Jorge have a good time at the convention!

I love my rifles enough that I wouldn't want to tell one of my big bores he had to stay home.

jorge,

Sable are tough. A 375 will work just fine, a 416 will work finer.

I would shoot a Sable with a 375, unless I had a .416 on hand. Same with the Buffalo.

That 416 is a devastating round. Sable and Buffalo need a bit of devistation to bring them to an end.

Thanks for your insight Wendell. A sable is in my future along with a leopard and I was just planning on my 300 Weatherby and my 338 as my two gun safari (no buffalo). To be honest, I feel kinda naked w/o at least a 375 over there, but I would have never even considered a 375, much less a 416 for sable. Might have to rethink, but regardless, I'll leave the 416 at home and either go 338/375 or as planned. Reason being, my "leopard scope" is on my 338 and 210 Partitions. I feel confident that will iron out a sable also, but one never knows if a "good deal" on buff, lion, etc crops up. decisions, decisions! jorge

PS: Terry, sorry for the thread hijack.

Terry,
In 2004 I did a two buffalo and sable safari with Rory Muil and used the 375 for everything. Used solids on the buffalo as the jess was quite thick. When I shot the sable I had to shoot through some thick stuff and was glad to have the 375.