Is anyone here useing one of the Remington 700 KS custom shop guns ? I noticed today that they have a Safari rifle from the custom shop, Kevlar stock about 9# for around $1500 full retail. Yeah, I know I know, It's a push feed but at least it doesn't cost two arms and a leg and you can actually get one. I still haven't seen anyone that has one of the controlled feed model 70's in stock. The KS is pretty darn nice as well. No worries about scratches etc. The Remington has a 22" barrel. Any opinions ????

I've seen one only Remington from the custom shop and it was a very nice piece of work.....for a Remmy.
If you want a new M-70 for about $1,000 I know where there's one right now.....and yes....it's a CRF in .375.

I sent you a PM. I'm interested in that model 70.

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Originally posted by ChuckWagon:
Is anyone here useing one of the Remington 700 KS custom shop guns ? I noticed today that they have a Safari rifle from the custom shop, Kevlar stock about 9# for around $1500 full retail. Yeah, I know I know, It's a push feed but at least it doesn't cost two arms and a leg and you can actually get one. I still haven't seen anyone that has one of the controlled feed model 70's in stock. The KS is pretty darn nice as well. No worries about scratches etc. The Remington has a 22" barrel. Any opinions ????

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CW
I don't think Remington KS guns represent
good value for the money.JMO

Flame suit on

I purchased A Remington Custom Shop "Alaskan" in 375 H and H caliber for a bear hunt.

It was so light that the recoil seemed higher than my 458.

On one trip the J lock somehow locked it up in the field even though I had never used the J lock. I had the J lock key with me but it would not unlock it. For the remainder of that trip the rifle was not usable. Fortunately I had another rifle to use.

I had a gunsmith remove the J lock and rebarrel it into a 300 Win Mag. He also replaced the trigger and worked over the action.

Its now a very reliable rifle and quite accurate but I would not recommend buying one because of the cost of all the modifications that were necessary to mine.

I definately would not buy one to use on dangerous game because of my experience with its malfunctions.

I just bought a model 70 375 H&H Express at Cabela's in Hamburg, PA. $929.00 (They had a handful of them.)

Thanx, I will give them a call 1

Does anyone have opinion about the Ruger M77 big bore rifle? I notice quite a few people singing the praises of Winchester and CZ, but no one seems to mention the Ruger one way or the other.

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Originally posted by Spitzer:
Does anyone have opinion about the Ruger M77 big bore rifle? I notice quite a few people singing the praises of Winchester and CZ, but no one seems to mention the Ruger one way or the other.

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The Ruger express rifle chambered for 375 H&H, or 458LOTT is the bargain of the century.If you like the 416s they are available as well.

Few people even consider a factory rifle, as is, for hunting Dangerous game. All require a little polishing, before they are ready for the bush with a big black bulls. The Ruger is already 98% finished when it comes out of the box. At $1950, it has pleanty of room for polishing, before it get's into the price range of things like a DAKOTA,on the low side, to a Ekols, on the high side, which,all but the Ekols, many times requires the same tweeking.

I whole-heartedly reccomend the Ruger! In my opinion, it is a sleeper, that is often overlooked, for rifles that are more expencive, but not better!

MacD37,

You said that the Ruger is 98% finsihed when it comes out of the box. What in your opinion would it take to make it 100%?

Since you asked about the Ruger RSM express model I'll give it another two thumbs up also.

Mine's a .375 and I've been very impressed with it - excellent wood, CRF, 3-position safety, express leaves (50, 100, 200yds), crossbolts, barrel band front swivel... It's got basically all the features most insist on for use on dangerous critters. The only thing required is just shooting it as much as you are able and making sure your particular rifle is working at 100% reliability before you go into the bush with it. You can find them in like-new condition for $1150-$1250 if you look around.

I've been very impressed with the RSM and would recommend it to anyone. Rugers are as strong as anything ever built and in my experience very rugged/dependable.

A true dangerous game rifle for Africa is not an investment that I take lightly, and price and availability don't really enter into the picture and really shouldn't have to for a good, solid working rifle.

I'm no stranger to Remington 700s, and I've owned a slew of them over the last thirty years, but I wouldn't want one for a DG rifle. I want a controlled-feed, Mauser-type action only that's been expertly tuned and adjusted by a real-live riflesmith who actually knows what he's doing -- not some crossroads gun butcher who's guessing about it.

That KS you're looking at has lousy, potmetal open sights, that two-bit Uncles Mike's barrel-mounted sling swivel band is really cheap and tends to twist out of position, and the Model 700 action is vulnerable to dust contamination and feeding problems, plus the brazed-on bolt handle has been know to pop off.

Good, workable guns and good buys include the CZ, Ruger, and Model 70. Get any of these prudently and effectively tuned and adjusted and you've got yourself a RIFLE.......

AD

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Originally posted by Spitzer:
MacD37,

You said that the Ruger is 98% finsihed when it comes out of the box. What in your opinion would it take to make it 100%?

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Spitzer, I think it needs to be gone over by a "REAL" riflesmith, just to make sure everything is as it should be. Feeding with several types, and weights of ammo,check the bedding, for high spots, makeing sure the recoil lugs are makeing contact with their mateing surfaces,and any polishing inside that is needed. Id say you should think of adding about $100, to $150 to the price of the rifle for this work. If any thing is wrong that $150 will not fix, then the rifle needs to be sent back to Ruger!

I know a guy who bought a Rem custom shop 700 in .458 and the rifle absolutely WILL NOT FEED anything except Rem 510 grain factory ammo. Other factory ammo jams it. But being a Remington it will probably never go on safari, so there was probably no harm done.

THe 2% needed to make my Ruger 100% was about 150 bucks to renowned gunsmith Marc Penrod. Now the rifle feeds like ice on glass with any ammo that I feed it. Accuracy was great right out of the box ( sorry Remington. For the money, I think it's just about the best value out there. jorge

I owe and take on safari a Remington 700 in a .416. I've been very happy with the performance. Took Buffalo, crocc, hippo, elephant, eland, zebra and a (Very dangerous) crested porcupine!
The only thing that I did with it was mag-na-porting, removeable scope mounts. That's it. Oh yes, I sanded the stock down, got rid of that shinny finish! I like a dull oil finish on all my guns. The iron sights that came factory are super! Enjoy shooting them more then the scope.

I di experence a bullet jam once, it was a solid. Not sure what or why it happened. The bad side is it's stuck in my head! It happened this past safari, when I was sighting in before the hunt started. I was going to talk with the custom shop about it out in Reno.

Any imput (besides telling me to get a different make) would be helpful..

Chuckwagon,
I purchased a 700 KS AWR (Alaska WIlderness Rifle) in 7mm Rem Mag. This was prior to the damned J locks on the bolt. It is a fantastic rifle. It shoots Federal Premium Nosler Partition 160 grainers into less than .6" all day long. I plan to take it to Masailand this summer as my light rifle. I will let you know how it does. I have used the rifle very successfully on deer and elk-all one shot kills. I think controlled round feeding is a bunch of crap. I have never had any feeding problems with any 700 I have ever owned (five). I doubt I would use a 700 for elephant, buff or lion. But I would use a 700 in the right caliber for all other game.

Hello,
Well, all the Remington bashing reminds me of the anti Bush crowd some couple months ago, much ado about nothing!! There has never been a more successful bolt action rifle ever built for sporting purposes than the Rem. 700. CRF is so much hype and actually very old and outdated technology. No, you can not stand on your head and shove a round into the chamber, nor will you be in trench warfare as in WW1 and load lying on your back, but do not see those things as a negative. Yes, the extractors do work just as they are supposed to and No the triggers are not guilty of going off when the safety is pushed off as some would have you believe.(Rem. trigger and safety is one of the best every built)

Ask any quality gunsmith who builds accurate rifles if the work required on a Remington action is as great as others?? Answer is NO, and by the way, our military could use any action they wish for ultimate dependable, accurate rifles for the "designated shooter..." program (aka sniper!) Now if you want to put yourself in the action of dangerous game, this will make you think elephants and buffs are puff dragons!! When the target shoots back, that is a whole different story!!

If the cosmetics and general lines of the Remington 700 does not appeal to you, fine, do not buy it, but to claim that the Rem. action is not suitable for dangerous game is a myth, pure and simple. The damn thing works, rain or shine, hot or cold, wet or dry, clean or dirty, it will go bang when it is required and "out of the box..." it will outshoot most all others including some very expensive custom rifles I have observed over the years.
dsiteman

desiteman,

I'm a proud Remington owner, I had a slight problem with the solids not feeding, never any other loads, Which I will take up with Remington. I have taken hippo, buffalo, Elephant, Zebra, and Eland with it and I plan to take a Lion this year.
By the way, I'm in the market for a .223 in Remington, a 700 or model seven, if anybody out there wants to sell one!
I trust that .416 Remington 100%!!!

I enjoyed reading your facts about Remington, by the way!

dsiteman: you couldn't be more wrong. It is a well established fact that push feeds were built to cut the costs of making the more expensive CRF. It is a fact push feed extractors fail with a greater degree of regularity than do CRFs, particlarly Remingtons, that is why USMC sniper rifles all have Sako extractors. It is a fact that push feeds, particularly Remingtons are more prone to problems if debris finds itself into the action, something the CRF was designed to overcome. It is a fact "short stroking" is a shortcoming of push feed actions.

It is a fact that Remington's brazed on bolt handles sometimes come off and it is a fact that Remington safeties are ergonomically poorly designed ( the main reason probably for the so called accidental firings) and they can fail when dirt gets in them. It is a fact that Model 70s have won more Wimbledon Matches than any other rifle. Moreover, I don't see any lawsuits against Winchester or anybody else regarding their safeties. You are correct that the "upside down feeding" analogy is vastly overated, but jump over to the AFrican Hunter magazine forum and read the results of professional hunters and push feeds. Lastly, it is a fact that the overwhelming majority of professional hunters prefer CRFs over push feeds.Can you use them on dangerous game/ of course can! Is one being foolhardy for using a push feed on same? of course not! So enjoy your 700s...jorge

Hello,
Won more Wimbledon than all others?? Well, I have shot that course of fire many times, (hold NRA long range classification of High Master) placed, never won, but did place and I cannot recall seeing anyone with a Winchester on the line, could have been, but rare sight for sure.
Now, are there lots of Remington's there?? Count em next time you shoot at Perry and report back how many are there vs Winchester.

Yes I could see where a bolt handle would come off if you beat on it w/ a hammer, and yes the lugs as well, but believe that is indeed a most unusual situation to say the least. Match shooters put their firearms to far more punishment than a hunter ever will and trust me, those Remington's keep on shooting day in and day out w/ very little problems, but if you wish to keep on with the Winchester, have at it.
To each his own and Favor Center!!
dsiteman

jorge

I think one of the big factors that was behind the push for Push Feed was all the advertising about gas containment etc with overloads.

Although it is often said push feed was done for reasons of economy it is ironical that of the more common large scale factroy rifles the expensive ones are push feeds such as Sako, Sauer, Blaser and Weatherby.

My observation has been that things need to be more right for CRF to get its reliability. You will find on this forum most postings concerning feeding problems are usually with CRF feed rifles.

Personally, I like CRF because you can run cartridges through the magazine without closing the bolt. Also good if spotlight shooting and the bolt is pushed home but not turned down, just pull the bolt back.

Crappy ammo with wrong dimensions brings CRF to a stand still. In Australia where very high volume shooting is done and a lot of crappy 308 ammo is used the PFs are more reliable. CRFs don't seen to do as well when rebarreled to other calibres.

I could not count how many M70 375s I have owned or been directly involved with but there is no doubt the PF M70s are much more reliable than the CRF M70s and I think Winchester Australia would confirm that. But of course much of this is a problem of quality control with the more current Winchesters.

It is always very difficult to compare rifle types not only because of the quality control issues but also how different people use rifles and also how shooting is done in different countries.

And lastly, for the average shooter in the gun shop the Rem 700, Sako type actions feel much slicker without the big long extractor being dragging along in the raceway.

One thing which probably needs to be said in Remington favour is that with its wide use for target shooting and varmint shooting it probably sees more use than other rifles and so the chances for problems to surface are greater.

But I can't stand the appearance of the rivoted in extractor on the magnum models, makes me break out in hives

Mike

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Match shooters put their firearms to far more punishment than a hunter ever will and trust me,

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NOT! Match shooters shoot their rifles a lot more than hunters, but Hunters do things to their rifles that just don't happen on the firing line.
-Rarely do you drop your match rifle in the mud, been there done that hunting.
-Rarely do you fall down a hill with you match rifle strapped to your back, been there done that hunting
-Rarely do you shoot match rifle with something that wants to kill you running at you at 30 miles an hour, think you might work you bolt harder?

Remingtons make good target rifles because their round actions are easier for even less competant gunsmiths to chuck them in a lathe and true them. Their triggers are OK but will fail in dust years before a Model 70's will. A Remington makes a decent hunting rifle if you don't mind a bolt handle that after 30rds peens on the secondary extraction groove.
A DGR is a special rifle that has different priorities than a typical target/hunting rifle. Yeah you can hunt dangerous game with a 700 but you can also drive a Yugo to the grocery store. I played with a Custom Shop 416 Remington and it was nasty to shoot. It hurt a whole lot more than my wood stocked M-70.

Our Sniper/Designated Marksmen are the best in the world due to our snipers themselves not because of their rifles. Anyway you look at it the M-24 is a rebuilt hunting rifle. The Accuracy International and Sako TRG series are both far superior sniping systems than the M-24 by any reasonably learned comparison. Every Military service thats had a true choice in which rifle their snipers use it's been either the AI or the TRG, check and see how many country's use the M-24. It's a pity that since they weren't made here our soldiers don't get to use them.........DJ

Mike: Thanks for your inputs. You know that I don't mind hunting with pushfeeds, as long as they are Weatherbys of course. Yes Winchesters are the Wimbledon kings and no doubt 700s rule the paper-punching target roost and today they far outnumber Model 70s in competition. Point being that winchesters are accurate rifles and certainly accurate enough for hunting, after all, anyhting less than say 1" MOA is not really a requisite for DGR or big game. \

In the DGR world, CRFs are the professionals choice. jorge

What amazes me is that people who are so fond of Weatherbys will bash Remington. Go figure. I doubt anyone on this strand has ever beat either open with a rock or had a brazed on handle just fall off in their hand. So much of this is just internet trash talk. Like a bunch of old hens with their wet panties in a bunch "what ifn". LOL. I have no intention of being a PH so that analagy is absurd. IF I'm lucky I will get to go after ONE cape buff and plainsgame. The Weatherby safety is a POS as well as the Remington. At least the Remington can be converted. Accidental discharge !? Well theres one way to cure that. Keep your damn figure off the trigger ! LMAO.... good grief. As far as the dirt bit in Remingtion, my experience with that says BS. But then I keep my weapon clean. I doubt even a H&H FN works very well full of dirt.

Chuckwagon,

I don't think I knocked Remington.

By the way, most of the story about a bit debris stopping a Remington relates to the bolt nose going into the chamber whih also occurs with Wby Mark V. However, a lot of accuracy Remingtons have been made where the clearance between the bolt nose and chamber recess is very small and a bristle of a cleaning brush will stop them.

I also think that part of the criticism on Rem 700s is generated because of the detachable recoil lug, seen as cheap, although in reality and apart from switch barrel rifles it is actually superior because it leaves more stock material behind the recoil lug.

In terms of the DGR aspect they do have a problem that a lot of them will not eject a loaded 375 and I believe it is worse with the bigger diameter Ultra case. The problem shows with the bigger calibres because of the heavier bullet and Rem 700 does not cut the back of the rear receiver ring for the longer cartridge. If the bolt is pulled back quickly on a loaded round (may have failed to fire) the ejector plunger can't get the loaded round out before the bolt is fully back and then the round hits the side of the rear receiver ring and drops onto the follower.

I think Remington is basically more geared up for the smaller calibres.

The bolt handles do come off which is why the Australian Remington agent keeps them in stock. But a worse problem is that sometimes the position of the bolt handle is not correct and this reduces primary extracttion. So you can open the bolt but you then have to bump it to get it to pull the cartridge out. Some of the stainless models can be bad because the extraction cam also gets chewed out.

Having said all of that, I bought a Rem 700 in 416 not long after they were introduced just to try one out. This was a wood stock model, heavy barrel and about the price of a blued/walnut M70 375. I found that rifle was faultless. The person who bought it from me rebarreled it to 375 and it is still going well.

But that rifle (they may have now changed) did not have a second recoil lug on the barrel and I don't think their 458s do as well. In short, I simply think Remington does not have a big bore culture.

If I was buying a Remington for serious big game shooting I would probably get the rifle they call the African Game Rifle because it has an in line magazine and when all else is equal an in line magazine will beat a staggered feed for reliability in feeding every day of the week. However, HS Precision possibly make an in line magazine for Rem 700.

I have never seen one break an extractor and I have had a lot do with bench rest shooting. Although the 30/06 action where the extractor is not rivoted will with an over load have the bolt open and the extractor rotates inside the bolt head. Some Rem 700s also have the vertical face of the extractor sitting a bit low and this makes closing the bolt a bit hard plus fills the bolt face with brass shavings.

But the facts are most Remingtons out there work as do other brands and each brand has its own problems.

But I personally would not buy a Remington in a big bore for serious shooting.

Mike

Hey chuckwagon,

I've used Remingtons all my life, I've never had a problem with them, when I desided to buy a big bore I went to Remington, I bought this .416 back when they first came out, I'm happy with it, it's not a $8,000.00 dollar gun, it cost me 8 hundred dollars new! And I like it, I'm 100% comfortable with it. And I have no intentions on changing!!

Chuck: point taken, but I've never heard of Weatherby getting sued for their safety. As far as keeping your weapon clean, sure that's a must, but it does happen and mauser type actions deal wit the dirt a lot better. Read what Djpaintless has to say, he's a gunsmith. Like I wrote previosuly, I don't have an issue if you want to take your 700 or weatherby to africa. My experiences with Remingtons are limited to two rifles, a Classic in 35 Wheelen that was defective from the factory ( the bolt recesses were overcut) and the other a 3006 BDL that the extractor broke after 20 rounds. And I have seen a handle come off at the rifle club I belong to. Obviously, that is not enough to form a scientific opinion, but it was good enough for me. no more Remingtons. So no problem here, just in my view and for my purposes, they don't compare to Weatherbys or Winchesters. jorge

Jorge , Quote : “ but jump over to the AFrican Hunter magazine forum and read the results of professional hunters and push feeds.â€

Remington

Oldsarge says « Remington is for varmints, not Africa†Harsh, isn’t it?

In Africa, I am using my PF Sauer, not my Dumoulin CRF, because 5 cartridges in the magazine is better than only 3. BTW both work nicely.

I am happy with my Rem700, my tiny 22-250 heavy barrel, wonderful rifle.............in France.

Just because we don't hear about lawsuits against Weatherby certainly doesn't mean they don't exist. I own Weatherby and Remington and while I like both I don't feel anyone can say as a point of Fact Weatherby is better than Remington. Both are push feed. I haven't seen too many sniper, swat or military guns based on the Mark 5 action.I think that says a fair amount about reliability under adverse conditions. As far as the Winchester being better...BULL PUCKY ! Maybe after another $1,000 in upgrades. Even though that is what I honestly believe I will likely go with a Winchester as that's the only way I'll be able to sell it when the time comes. The Ruger is a heavy beast and I just don't like CZ. Plus the Winchester can be set in a synthetic stock. I suppose wood could be nice if you get lost and need to build a fire. Other than that I'll stick with stronger and lighter.

Jorge, I did read the posters comments you referred to. I don't happen to agree with him. While I'm certain not too many bench shooters fall on their guns, use them as a canoe paddle or beat grizzlys over the head with them they certainly do fire a lot more rounds than the average hunter. I would also say that I wouldn't necessarily agree with his analagy of a DG gun in this context as we are only talking about a 375. He may be a gunsmith but Im sure he is just as opinionated as the rest of us.

Chuck: we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. jorge

No problems there.

Jorge, Thanks for the compliment but I'm not a professional Gunsmith, I'm a Kitchen-Table idiot.
I do stock a few rifles and get to tinker with as many as I have time to. I try to post on things that I'm directly familiar with. You probably would rather have me tune your rifle than some of the hacks out there with a sign above their door. But I respect some of the true professionals out there enough to not disrespect them by considering myself one of them..........yet........DJ

Hard to decide between so contrasted opinions.
Speaking statistics, will You agree about the most used DG turnbolts in Africa.
1) MAUSER and Mauser style, mostly old hands and pro
2) M70
3) CZ
4) the rest, say 20% : Ruger, Rem, Sako, Blaser (for newbees),
At the range, I don’t know in America. In France, by far Remington is the leader. Anyway I won’t pick any range-rifle for anything in the world. DG and Range rifles haven’t the same design.
A DG rifle must work in any conditions (heath, dust, humidity, frost…). It imperturbably must feed, bang and eject, slowly or quickly, tenderly or wildly. One can get that right off the shelf or by customizing it

I own one in 338 it's stainless and has the KS mountain rifle stock.

It's great, the saftey is kind of sticky, and I am probably going to replace the safety with a 3 pos one.

The rifle is accurate, the action is really slick (like a damn Tikka or Sako). Trigger great, barrel great, stock fantastic, recoil ouch!

It's really light and has really fast hard recoil with the 250 grain bullets. Probably going to put a different pad on it (it already has a KDF).

I think the 338 is too slow to get a lot of help by a muzzle brake. Going to try break-o and a new kick-eaze pad.

Good gun, and for $1500 not a bad buy for a semi-custom rifle.

Well DJ, I saw a picture of your work and was impressed so I listen to what you have to say. Regardless, if one were to say that Model 70s "walk on water" somebody would retort"yeah, because they can't swim!" jorge

Well for the $2600 on a syntetic SS custom Winny Vs the $1500 for a Reminton it damn well should be able to swim. Winchester is out of the park on their custom guns. The SS Synthetic model is $950. Now what do you suppose Winchester does on the custom gun other than the McMillan stock ( $300 ) and a match grade barrel ( $200 ) ?? I know I know. The Winchester gunsmiths aren't hacks like the Remington guys and can tru a non-round action ! LMAO

I think the Model 70 is the best designed receiver of all actions because of the bedding configuration. But a Rem 700 is better for a "glue in" because they are easier to get apart and you can get the trigger out with the rifle being taken apart.

Previously I would have said the best action, assuming it is correctly made, was the push feed M70.

But now, and it is early days, I think the M70 with the mixture of CRF and PF is the best.

While this will probably not interest too many on this thread one of the problems with the M70 CRF is that for accuracy and switch barrel rifles they can't be set up so as to be able to swithc barrels between actions because of the extractor slot in the back of the barrel.

However, when the total package of a rifle is taken into account I think the Weatherby is the best and especially if it has come via their custom shop.

Of course one of the problems with all these rifle comparisons is that our own interests and/or needs change with times.

One of the things I like very much about Wby and I now talking from the aspect of spending a fair bit of money on rifles is that I find them very relaxing because they kind of sit out on their own. In fact they almost allow you to be just a spectator to the various threads and discussions on different rifles.

If I was to hunt dangerous game that might charge me I would prefer in the big calibres the Weatherby because of the vertical stack in line magazine. If you could buy one then CRF would be better (I think?) if it had in line feed.

There is no doubt that these forums show feeding problems to be most common on the CRFs. But when you think that case head must slip under that exractor while coming out of the magazine at an angle it adds to the difficulty.

But at the end of the day we are all influenced by our own experiences. In my case I have never had short stroking whereas other people obviously do.

My guess is that if we took all the actions that have been around for a lot of years (M70, Weatherby, Rem 700 etc.) and used all over the world in all conditions and assumed they were correctly made as designed then we would not find much difference between them in actual use.

Fortunately for those of us who like to discuss guns most of the manufactures don't don't always execute the designs real well.

Mike

Chuckwagon,

I am only guessing since I have not seen them but I think the M70 Custom shop rifles probably have better finish etc and are aimed at someone who is wanting to spend more money. You see that with their two versions of their Custom shop big bores, about $3000US Vs $4700US

Mike