quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Having tried hundreds and hundreds of cases as a lawyer and a judge, it still always surprises me when a party explains his or her behavior in a manner that is more damning than if they just kept their mouth shut.

The judge lowers the boom!!!!!

I can only speak for myself but Theo and his sons are 100% in my book and Iam looking forward to hunt with them again in the future.

Thanks for the comment Anton.I know I am 100%.I would love to put the facts on this forum.I can say one thing though.I have not hunted on these"stolen" properties without the express clearance from the land owners.If you read between the lines I and my clients are 100% clear.I was brought up with integrity and when somebody questions that I tend try and stand up for myself.Mike I also lost my properties and I know exactly what everyone has gone through.I would not loose hope though.The new constitution may say there is no going back on the land reform however due process still has to be followed to acquire these properties.That being said how will the next government pay compensation.The country is broke and this may change.

Stealing property is not new in Africa. Wasn't it Geoff Brooms property that was stolen for Matetsi four? The government is never going to live up to the standards of the Zim PH's association. I think guys like Martin, Russ, and Buzz have to work in a imperfect system and good on them if they can provide jobs better the community and conserve wildlife. They have a right to make a profit and just because someone has a bad hunt doesn't mean the safari company is at fault. I have been in camp with unlucky out of shape whiners who couldn't walk , shoot, or keep their mouths shut. The good safari companys, and we all know who they are, do the best with the situation that the government presents to them. Zim is one of the few places we have left and we should cherish it.

quote:

Originally posted by hunter123:
Thanks for the comment Anton.I know I am 100%.I would love to put the facts on this forum.I can say one thing though.I have not hunted on these"stolen" properties without the express clearance from the land owners.If you read between the lines I and my clients are 100% clear.I was brought up with integrity and when somebody questions that I tend try and stand up for myself.Mike I also lost my properties and I know exactly what everyone has gone through.I would not loose hope though.The new constitution may say there is no going back on the land reform however due process still has to be followed to acquire these properties.That being said how will the next government pay compensation.The country is broke and this may change.

One idea for the stolen properties like Gwayi would be to have an agreement with the rightful owners and pay them a small amount to hunt the property and pay the new "owners" also. This would allow proper companies to hunt these areas. If the land would ever go back to the rightful owners they would still have functioning farms with wildlife. If not returned, at least they are making something off the property.

This may be Utopian idea with tight margins, individuals on the banned list etc but could it work in some cases?

Mike:
That's a good idea but would not the new "owners" begin to destroy the game populations? I personally saw this in southeast Zim. A friend's oasis was turned to a desert in two years.
Cal

Well said Mike.Maybe the folks are starting to cotton on to what has been happening for the last 10 years.That is why I and my clients are 100% clean.If we can hold together these commercial areas in some shape, wildlife will spring back exceptionally quick.All of us would love to have the big safari areas however this is a dream to most.We have lost a hellava lot of damn good PH's to other countries and professions as the commercial farming areas hosted most of the hunts in zimbabwe.We still have some damn good PH's, some pockets of good hunting on commercial areas( not what it was) but adequate.Zimbabwe is still good value for money.If it were not for the really good clients that support us there would be no game left in these areas,

As a side note an observation in the matetsi areas after being there 10 years is the decline in plainsgame.The main contributer to this is predation and more specifically the explosion of the lion numbers.There are very few sable bulls left.Most of the lone , mature bulls are getting eaten by lion.The sable calves are very vulnerable to hyena predation.The kudu,impala and waterbuck have been decimated by wild dogs.We see packs of up to 25.The moratorium on lion hunting for 5 years was detrimental to the other game.The continued moratorium on lioness hunting will have profound long term effects.

Theo:
Allow me to explain further about my 2008 hunt with Gary and a friend (2x1) and a third gent who filmed the hunt.

Gary and I have a history that goes back a few years and Crystal and Gary know well of my diabetes. They packed diet coke for the trip up and a day or two. When the supply ran out (one other of the party drank diet but does not need to do so medically) we asked Adrian for additional. The reply was it was too expensive. I’m sure you know the result if a diabetic drinks regular soft drinks, beer, or fruit juice. Yes, you did show up with a six pack of TAB the evening of the last night in camp. I remember well making a sarcastic comment about trying to drink all of it before our departure early the next morning.

The one gent who was hunting with me made only one request from the manager. That was to have wine to drink with his dinner. He was told none was available but on day six a box showed up and enjoyed his wine the remainder of the hunt. However, when we toured other facilities with Adrian we noticed wine in another location and my friend wondered why this wine was not brought over the first day for him to enjoy? Not a big issue, but one of many.

The afternoon of our arrival we three clients showered the staff with knives, shirts, hats, lighters, etc... At dinner that evening we discussed amongst ourselves how no one seemed to smile and not one of us received a complementary “thank you.” It was like we were more Americans giving them unwanted junk. We continued to chat amongst ourselves throughout the ten days of the lack of friendliness or smiles. I understand then and now they had to ride along due to regulations. And that is what they did--ride along--and did absolutely nothing else.

I mentioned the evening meal were great but lunches were very skimpy--a slice of cold meat between some dry bread. Dining in the field was a bit above “starvation rations” as one of us commented. We asked Adrian to improve the lunches and we did get more to eat, but of the same quality. After such a lunch we all looked forward to the evening meal--which, as mentioned, were very good.

The hunt to your area was my 13th trip over to Africa but the first for my two friends. One of my favorite parts of the hunt is to sit around the fire in the evening and discuss the day’s activities as well in the am to look towards the day. My friends were looking to this, too, but it was not be as the fire area was infested with ants. So, too, were one of the two showers so we just used the one.

You are correct and fastidious in recalling a past post of a couple years ago when I mentioned not one of my African hunts went as planned and there were downsides to each hunt. A couple of gents jumped on stating how could I pick 13 “bad” PHs in a row and the problem must be with me. I understand their logic but I never stated I had 13 unsavory PHs. Some problems were with the dip and pack taxidermist (the Bulawayo company after the this hunt put three skulls in a box with no padding or fastening at all!), some was poor quality taxidermy in Zim and SA, one box of trophies showed up at my address in Amsterdam (except I don’t have an address there), some were less than honorable booking agents, some times the animals were poor or were very few (as in my case with this hunt--more later), some were lost bags by the airline, and some were (2) poor PHs (one, on a buffalo hippo hunt near Kariba, spent his days on the cell phone, did not distribute my tips money to the staff, and kept my trophy fee money--he has since lost his license) and the second was an inexperienced newbie who seemed to know little about hunting or where the game was). So, all in all, it is not me but I understand your need for defense.

I hunted several days on your property without seeing a buffalo bull. After several days of Gary asking you to hunt Woodlands you relented for one day only. I took a mediocre bull.
That didn’t set well with my PH as when we where hunting days prior a leopard hunter from another of your areas was on the area we were hunting and my PH though fair is fair and we should spend time where buffalo were know to have been seen. We were allowed only one day.

Tips are a good point to discuss. I tip well if it is deserved. (Cash, a .460 ‘Weatherby, Leica binocs, etc., on past hunts). There was no need to tip well from all three of us on the hunt on your property. Those that did well (cook, tracker, skinner) were fairly treated. Those that did nothing and greeted us the first day with an attitude got little. Remember there were three of us there but two had no prior African experience as to judge that current condition. When clients are paying a good sum to hunt to be told diet Coke or wine are not available is unacceptable. So, too, are poor lunches when one is in the bush 12 hours. Effort should have been taken to rid the area of ants so we could enjoy the camp more. You are correct that Americans brought the tipping situation to Africa. It is unfortunate that tips are now expected, rather than to be earned, by some. And, I’m not referring just to camp staff.

After the hunt, Gary asked me for a letter detailing our experiences as he could foresee (then) a court case with you over several issues regarding the hunt. Many times the first few days Gary asked if I wanted to bail out of the area and find another property to hunt on. He would give me a full refund due to camp conditions, the amount of staff we had to cart around all day, and the lack of game (buffalo in my instance). I mentioned I would if I was alone but should stay. It was Ron and Greg’s first time there and I would stick it out for them to experience Africa. I did as he requested but heard nothing on the matter after so I can’t comment on the outcome for the requested letter.

So, there it is in more detail. Fire away.
Cheers,
Cal
PS. I do wish you and all Zimbabweans who lost property in 2000 or thereafter a good resolution to the situation.

Thanks for the report Cal.As I have said before I am relating to you what I have been told by Adrian and the scout.I am not questioning your version.As much as I would like it sometimes the ball gets dropped by employees.This I dont dispute and that is why I or my 2 sons do the hunting where we control everything.I still wish you or Gary had spoken to me.It is the first I hear about a letter in case of litigation.Gary did a bunch of other hunts after that.Cal I can assure you the issue of tips drives me up the wall.I personally hate that part of the hunt because of the clients all differ on ammounts and it causes me stress as it is now expected.If they dont get enough there is the feeling that we influenced the client.I never touch the tips and must be given directly to the staff to have transparency.Cal we asked for a transfer for the buff and could only get it for a day between hunts.This was not my concession.

Cheers
Theo

Theo:
Thanks for your gentlemanly reply and you are correct that many issues need (should have) been discussed at the time. It is all water under the bridge and should I meet you in person again, I will do so a friend. I did not post the original letter I wrote for Gary here as such items are not for the public arena and is sounds that you and Gary have worked out what ever issues that may have been brewing. I do still have a copy of it in my files as I do all the notebooks from all of my hunts. It is in my personality profile to keep detailed and day-by-day notes of my hunts--both for reference as well as for possible articles.
Cheers, mate.
Cal

Theo

Were are you hunting in 2013?

John

John- i hunt on bosweddon,msuna and have access to waterford ranch

Alan Savory

Is Bingwa the area that has converted rail cars for accommodations?

quote:

Originally posted by tim416:
Is Bingwa the area that has converted rail cars for accommodations?

Glad you asked that..
I think it was 03/04 at a gunshow in ventura ca., some guy was selling hunts & camp was converted RR cars.. Asked him to point on map to me where it was.. He barely pointed to an area looked to be inside Hwange if I recall. He finaly said what do you care & suddenly left to go to the restroom.. Alway's wondered where & what it truely was..Still do if you might go into it further..

I think you are referring to Malindi Station (if that's spelled right). It is about a mile from the railroad tracks that are (I think) the border of the park and in a communal area.

I stayed there when it was first completed and it was very nice. The area was full of snares, chopped up into mile square areas, some legal, some not... It was a real mess when I was there in 2003 or so (It was a week after the Stein guy died on the motorbike in SA) and I left after the second day. What it's like now, I don't know. It was a great concept, but all the tangent farms had just been seized and confusion reigned, for sure.

All that.... if it is the same rail cars??

Try this reference.

You are correct Judge, it is on one of the old Gwaai farms!