Dr. Ikanda has responded to the post regarding USFWS personnel, in response to the post below:

I agree that transparency is good. I also expect that they will be more transparent as time goes on. There are growing pains with any system. I suspect things are not perfect, but no one can deny they are not substantially better than before. I say if Dr. Ikanda asks that USFWS look at the data, they should send a team out to look at it before promulgating more rules.



Dear Tim,

Thanks for the feedback and I trust that my previous response was also tabled.

It response to below, personally I am not aware of any attempts by USFWS meet wildlife officials here. Perhaps if someone has better reference to it and is willing to share, please let them do so.

Tanzania shares very cordial relations with the US government at all levels, I don't see why the Wildlife Division would not want to sit down and talk about this. If the USFWS willing to engage directly, not through some middleman/broker in the name of 'expatriate scientist', rest assured there will not be difficulty.

Best

Dennis

Dr. Dennis K. Ikanda
Director-KWRC
Tanzania Wildlife Research Institute
P.O. Box 661, Arusha Tanzania

Tel: +255 27 254 9571
Cell: +255 754 818034
+255 784 818034
E-mail: deni@africamail.com
dennis.ikanda@tawiri.or.tz
www.tawiri.or.tz

That ship has sailed.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
So why isn't it an option now?

To the best of my knowledge it still is...but I don't think "the team" has changed and I don't think TZ changed its mind about "the team."

Who is this illustrious team, worthy of quotation marks?

To the best of my knowledge...there have been several people put forward.

So The Team is a figment of your imagination?

No...not a figment Matt. I know the names put forth...just unwilling to publish them here.

But since you are being such an antagonistic @$$-hole here...why don't you share what you yourself are accomplishing on making sure hunted lion trophies remain importable to the USA...or for that matter what head way you have made in Australia.

Or do you prefer to just sit and bitch and moan?

When you go back and add lines of vitriol to your post - perhaps you should inform that you did that. Where are your manners Lane?

There is very little a foreign national can do to influence the US Govt - except support the organisations that oppose these measures.

WRT my own country - I regularly make representations to our Federal government on import/export of CITES animals... but as we have seen with the export of our own sport hunted CITES species (crocodile, kangaroo) - neither 'side' of the Federal government is willing to support measures that are seen as unpopular to the city-dwelling majority. But we do continue the fight - mainly by direct political action ...ie. getting our 'own people' elected. That unfortunately is a very long-term process.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
So why isn't it an option now?

To the best of my knowledge it still is...but I don't think "the team" has changed and I don't think TZ changed its mind about "the team."

Who is this illustrious team, worthy of quotation marks?

To the best of my knowledge...there have been several people put forward.

So The Team is a figment of your imagination?

No...not a figment Matt. I know the names put forth...just unwilling to publish them here.

But since you are being such an antagonistic @$$-hole here...why don't you share what you yourself are accomplishing on making sure hunted lion trophies remain importable to the USA...or for that matter what head way you have made in Australia.

Or do you prefer to just sit and bitch and moan?

When you go back and add lines of vitriol to your post - perhaps you should inform that you did that. Where are your manners Lane?

There is very little a foreign national can do to influence the US Govt - except support the organisations that oppose these measures.

WRT my own country - I regularly make representations to our Federal government on import/export of CITES animals... but as we have seen with the export of our own sport hunted CITES species (crocodile, kangaroo) - neither 'side' of the Federal government is willing to support measures that are seen as unpopular to the city-dwelling majority. But we do continue the fight - mainly by direct political action ...ie. getting our 'own people' elected. That unfortunately is a very long-term process.

Matt,
You continue to work on Australia then and leave the USA to us who live, understand, and are influenced the most by it. When you win in Australia...you can come and give me heck.

As far as manners go Matt...I say Sir and Ma'am to everyone. I am the epitome of manners. The problem is that I have lost all respect for you.

P.S. And I will get the lion thing sorted out in the USA as quit or fail are not in my vocabulary.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
So The Team is a figment of your imagination?

No...not a figment Matt. I know the names put forth...just unwilling to publish them here.

But since you are being such an antagonistic @$$-hole here...why don't you share what you yourself are accomplishing on making sure hunted lion trophies remain importable to the USA...or for that matter what head way you have made in Australia.

Or do you prefer to just sit and bitch and moan?

When you go back and add lines of vitriol to your post - perhaps you should inform that you did that. Where are your manners Lane?

There is very little a foreign national can do to influence the US Govt - except support the organisations that oppose these measures.

WRT my own country - I regularly make representations to our Federal government on import/export of CITES animals... but as we have seen with the export of our own sport hunted CITES species (crocodile, kangaroo) - neither 'side' of the Federal government is willing to support measures that are seen as unpopular to the city-dwelling majority. But we do continue the fight - mainly by direct political action ...ie. getting our 'own people' elected. That unfortunately is a very long-term process.

Matt,
You continue to work on Australia then and leave the USA to us who live, understand, and are influenced the most by it. When you win in Australia...you can come and give me heck.

As far as manners go Matt...I say Sir and Ma'am to everyone. I am the epitome of manners. The problem is that I have lost all respect for you.

My sincere apologies Sir; I can see you are fragile and deeply offended by someone from another country sticking their nose in.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
So The Team is a figment of your imagination?

No...not a figment Matt. I know the names put forth...just unwilling to publish them here.

But since you are being such an antagonistic @$$-hole here...why don't you share what you yourself are accomplishing on making sure hunted lion trophies remain importable to the USA...or for that matter what head way you have made in Australia.

Or do you prefer to just sit and bitch and moan?

When you go back and add lines of vitriol to your post - perhaps you should inform that you did that. Where are your manners Lane?

There is very little a foreign national can do to influence the US Govt - except support the organisations that oppose these measures.

WRT my own country - I regularly make representations to our Federal government on import/export of CITES animals... but as we have seen with the export of our own sport hunted CITES species (crocodile, kangaroo) - neither 'side' of the Federal government is willing to support measures that are seen as unpopular to the city-dwelling majority. But we do continue the fight - mainly by direct political action ...ie. getting our 'own people' elected. That unfortunately is a very long-term process.

Matt,
You continue to work on Australia then and leave the USA to us who live, understand, and are influenced the most by it. When you win in Australia...you can come and give me heck.

As far as manners go Matt...I say Sir and Ma'am to everyone. I am the epitome of manners. The problem is that I have lost all respect for you.

My sincere apologies Sir; I can see you are fragile and deeply offended by someone from another country sticking their nose in.

Not at all...

...if they had anything constructive to add.

I suspect that is code for 'if they agree with me'.

It must be difficult for members here to know if they are worthy of your approval.

I appreciate Lane's statement that quit and fail are not in his vocabulary. I suspect the same is true for many others on this forum.
The question is how do we go forward.
What are identifiable issues/problems that we can address and therefore propose solutions?
How can we then put forward the proposed solutions in a manner they will be acted upon?

Lane,
Having just read LCTF letter to USFWS in Feb of 2013. I found it a clear, cogent effective argument in favor of trophy hunting of lion.
Furthermore I am convinced the courts are probably the only recourse, until a positive change in the political environment occurs.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
P.S. And I will get the lion thing sorted out in the USA as quit or fail are not in my vocabulary.

Great attitude Lane and once you and Matt quit bickering we can sit around the table and suggest the way forward.

We are all willing to help and can offer a part to play but need direction and a plan. AR is represented throughout the world and embraces many professionals from all walks of life.

Is it viable to see up a new organisation? Or to bolster an existing structure such as Conservation Force?

What we need here is someone to implement step one and outline a plan.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
Lane,
Having just read LCTF letter to USFWS in Feb of 2013. I found it a clear, cogent effective argument in favor of trophy hunting of lion.
Furthermore I am convinced the courts are probably the only recourse, until a positive change in the political environment occurs.

The courts have had and will have 'little if any effect' on USF&WS. They are insulated from the legal system being a strictly executive branch agency.

Court cases have been won...but little positive effect, if any, has come from those.

Taking this approach over and over again and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.

The way forward is to identify areas of common interest between science and hunting and build upon those for the future.

Over the course of the next few days, after I get done at DSC...I will put forth a step plan on this forum in which we can move our agenda forward in a new approach.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
Lane,
Having just read LCTF letter to USFWS in Feb of 2013. I found it a clear, cogent effective argument in favor of trophy hunting of lion.
Furthermore I am convinced the courts are probably the only recourse, until a positive change in the political environment occurs.

The courts have had and will have 'little if any effect' on USF&WS. They are insulated from the legal system being a strictly executive branch agency.

Court cases have been won...but little positive effect, if any, has come from those.

Taking this approach over and over again and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.

The way forward is to identify areas of common interest between science and hunting and build upon those for the future.

Over the course of the next few days, after I get done at DSC...I will put forth a step plan on this forum in which we can move our agenda forward in a new approach.

Lane,

Unfortunately in 2010 while late it still would have been time to make a great impact on lion hunting and conservation with the work you and Aaron did. now I fear that at this late date we are screwed. You have to realize that 47% of the population will vote for Clinton no matter what. Sad but true. So without and administration change it will just get worse. Ashe and his anti-hunting cronies will just become more bold as time goes on. You are correct in your assessment of the courts. They are no help. Conservation Force took the Polar Bear issue to the Supreme Court where they refused to hear it. In other words, me and others represented got our asses kicked. So much hinges on this next election beyond hunting it is not even funny.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
Lane,
Having just read LCTF letter to USFWS in Feb of 2013. I found it a clear, cogent effective argument in favor of trophy hunting of lion.
Furthermore I am convinced the courts are probably the only recourse, until a positive change in the political environment occurs.

The courts have had and will have 'little if any effect' on USF&WS. They are insulated from the legal system being a strictly executive branch agency.

Court cases have been won...but little positive effect, if any, has come from those.

Taking this approach over and over again and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.

The way forward is to identify areas of common interest between science and hunting and build upon those for the future.

Over the course of the next few days, after I get done at DSC...I will put forth a step plan on this forum in which we can move our agenda forward in a new approach.

Lane,

Unfortunately in 2010 while late it still would have been time to make a great impact on lion hunting and conservation with the work you and Aaron did. now I fear that at this late date we are screwed. You have to realize that 47% of the population will vote for Clinton no matter what. Sad but true. So without and administration change it will just get worse. Ashe and his anti-hunting cronies will just become more bold as time goes on. You are correct in your assessment of the courts. They are no help. Conservation Force took the Polar Bear issue to the Supreme Court where they refused to hear it. In other words, me and others represented got our asses kicked. So much hinges on this next election beyond hunting it is not even funny.

Jeff

No doubt the next election is crucial...the reason I spend so much time campaigning for Trump as I have already been in touch with them and know where they stand on reversing this.

That said...there are other ways to move forward. More to come.

Supporting a conservative, like minded presidential candidate is in the hunting community's best interest.

To be more precise, we need to support someone who supports us.

It does not HAVE to be a republican or a conservative. They just have to support what is correct and have the integrity to stay the course.

While a conservative has traditionally been the candidate who does so, I can see a democrat being this way. Lots of democrats who style themselves as being for logic and science. If they were and are, they should be on our side.

No need to make an enemy of someone unnecessarily.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Lots of democrats who style themselves as being for logic and science. If they were and are, they should be on our side.

No need to make an enemy of someone unnecessarily.

While I am sure there are some Dr. Butler...Federally, we have acquired a little problem...the Clinton Foundation.

The Clinton Foundation has an agenda to stop African Hunting...at least lion, leopard, & elephant. Any (D) in federal office will be under duress from them to do what they can to stop hunting of the above species.

The Clinton Foundation will use any and all means available to them...they are no-holds-barred with their agenda.

The Clinton Foundation is a formidable foe. For this election we must get behind Trump, Cruz, and Carson

quote:

2016 - Trump or Cruz...either one will do!!!

I hope common sense prevails on the majority of voters this time because should the Madam come on board it won't just be African hunting that will go for a Burton but your rights to possess firearms as well.

As per earlier posts, my understanding is that the president's spouse plays a major role in implementing importation bans (e.g. - Laura Bush and the polar bear and almost leopard) here in the states. Perhaps DSC should invite the future First Man (Slick Willie) to attend the convention and expo. Once he views the "eye candy", perhaps he will become an advocate for legal, ethical, and sustainable big game hunting as well. Just say'n!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Lots of democrats who style themselves as being for logic and science. If they were and are, they should be on our side.

No need to make an enemy of someone unnecessarily.

While I am sure there are some Dr. Butler...Federally, we have acquired a little problem...the Clinton Foundation.

The Clinton Foundation has an agenda to stop African Hunting...at least lion, leopard, & elephant. Any (D) in federal office will be under duress from them to do what they can to stop hunting of the above species.

The Clinton Foundation will use any and all means available to them...they are no-holds-barred with their agenda.

No doubt that Hillary is on the wrong side, but there are some democrats who are pro hunting in office. We need to support them, yet let them know that we will exact a price for standing against us.

This is something that the NRA has done for years.

I suspect that if the average democrat knew how much the Clinton foundation does and for what reason, they would be very negatively inclined to them... It is starting to hurt HRC with their base (although hunting and lion and elephant issues isn't a reason that resonates with that group)... Sanders is gaining ground.

I am probably as much a conservative as most, yet being partisan will devolve us to a small part of the republican tent.

taking a page out of the NRA playbook when it comes to grading politicians is a excellent idea. Lets identify pro-hunting congressmen and women and support them. Lets also identify the anti hunting congressmen and work to defeat them.
My congressman, Dan Newhouse, R, from Central WA is pro hunting and pro gun.
Unfortunately our two senators Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell are to the left of obama on these issues.