quote:

Remember, this was just a week or so after the event,and just a few miles from where I was, so it was the big buzz...

The incident took place at Chirisa, which is slightly further than "just a few miles" from Chewore.

Hey, Carmelo. I guess I'm game if you are. What the heck. You gotta go sometime.

Terry,

Them other fellers is prigs also. I'm just mad because you insult my hat .

If my view is out of step, and it probably is as few things shock me having acquired my social graces in less than sensitive surroundings, I apologize. Ladies "unmentionalbles" should never be discussed in public regardless of the context.

Friends again?

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by patrkyhntr:
Hey, Carmelo. I guess I'm game if you are. What the heck. You gotta go sometime.

As long as we aren't required to pay trophy fees for the Buff wounding us

quote:

Originally posted by PWN375:
Terry,

Them other fellers is prigs also. I'm just mad because you insult my hat .

If my view is out of step, and it probably is as few things shock me having acquired my social graces in less than sensitive surroundings, I apologize. Ladies "unmentionalbles" should never be discussed in public regardless of the context.

Friends again?

Perry

No offense taken, still friends.

Can you please post a picture of you and your hat? I seem to have lost my copy.

Regards,

Terry

Thanks Terry. I understand the scenario. In my case I have a Krieghoff double, with the cocking device rather than the safety. This takes more effort, and, is a longer thumb movement than just pushing a safety.
Peter.

Carmello if you can put an end to this one I'll get a 45-70 with garret ammo and go with you.

Carmelo- Are you aware of a 45-70 with a 3 position safety???

ahhhhhhhhhh things are once again getting back to normal

Can someone tell me where to get a CRF 45-70. I don't want one of those worthless push feeds jamming or dropping my ammo on the ground when I shoot upside down at three cape buffs lined up perfectly for my garret penetration test.
Hey don't laugh it works well on stumps.

Sounds like the blame game to me..I thought the dirty tricks were over with the election. Shit happens and its nobodys fault, certainly not the PHs, he did his part when he and Keith shot the bull off Nicki, that saved her life btw..Fate gentlemen plays a hand in these things, but you can bet the experts who have all shot a total of 1 or 2 bulls, never been charged will have the friggen answers...

Peter,
I would not expect anyone to have the safty off when following up a wounded anything, more folks been shot this way than killed by dangerous game...

When following up on wounded game one never knows where the attack is coming from, 8 ft. or 50 yards or even if its coming...you hunt dangerous game and take your chances and if you have to blame anyone, then maybe its best you stay home and shoot quail, dangerous game is not for you...What a crock of shit.

quote:

Sounds like the blame game to me..I thought the dirty tricks were over with the election. Shit happens and its nobodys fault, certainly not the PHs, he did his part when he and Keith shot the bull off Nicki, that saved her life btw..Fate gentlemen plays a hand in these things, but you can bet the experts who have all shot a total of 1 or 2 bulls, never been charged will have the friggen answers...

Ray,

When my little incident was cut and pasted from another sight and posted here this summer you'd have thought that it was being critiqued/ examined by the High Court of Supreme Buffalo Charge and Firearms Experts. Hell even my writing was "critiqued" it was refered to as "artsy".

We even had one "expert" (Who later admitted that he'd never hunted dangerous game in his life.)from South Africa that claimed the reason that I was charged was because I was using a side by side instead of an over and under double gun!

All I've got to say is unless you've been there and experienced the speed and violenece of a charge at close range in thick cover it's very hard to imagine all the things that can go wrong. And there is not always time or the opourtunity to stop the animal before injury occurs. Even if Mr. A was able to get a shot off there is no telling wether that would have been the golden BB or not.

As to my earlier comment I was addressing why Mr. A's rifle would not come off safety and nothing to do with the how to or why of the actual incident itself.

And I fully agree, sometimes shit just happens..

Greg Allyn

Oh and just by the way if I ever get hammered y'all have my express permission to discuss the content and color and texture of whatever happens to be found in my shorts.

quote:

Originally posted by carmelolisciotto:
I'm almost tempted to start a 45-70 thread just to divert attention and bury this one!! hahaha
I understood Marks intention and it wasn't meant to be disrespectful in any way.
So who's up for Buff Hunting with a 45-70 in a single action hand gun?

Stick to stirring up action on your own forums.

Where it's needed

Ngagi, I don't see why everyone got their panties in such a bunch about it.

Karl.

Hey Karl

Lighten up will ya. I was only making light of the thread as were others. Those of us in the know get the joke.

I just caught onto this post and I take it Niki is recovering well. If its not out of line can anyone enlighten me as to the injuries she received?
Sounds like a great lady I'm relieved and happy she survived the stomping.
Man its enuff to make you wonder sometimes. You can go for years with some items fully believing they are great and just like that you get the surprise of your life and at the worst possible time.( Keiths safety issue)
It sure as hell has got me rethinking some of my rifles, they will be getting some intense inspection thats for sure!

I have 4 Mod 70 pre64s/ I can't duplicate keiths malfunction with any of them. Is this just a probem with the various types of post 64 Mod 70s?

465 H&H,

Try it with a cartridge in the chamber.

I justed tried on a 223 WSSM. If lift the bolt a bit and hold it there I can't get past the second postion. But without holding the bolt the bolt handle falls down enough that I can move the safety off.

Perhaps his cases were partially sized and caused enough resistance for the bolt handle to stay up or perhaps the pressure of the extractor on on the case rim.

Mike

465
Just the post 64's from what research I've done.

I tried this on a Weatherby Mark V and you can't make it happen. A Tikka T3 will let the bolt handle come up slightly and this will prevent the safety from being disenganged. You must close the bolt completely on the Tikka just like described on the Model 70 in question.

I believe the safety should lock the handle down and prevent it from drifting up. The Weatherby accomplishes this the Tikka does not.

Be warned this may not be just a brand phenomena.

quote:

Originally posted by TheBigGuy:
I tried this on a Weatherby Mark V and you can't make it happen. A Tikka T3 will let the bolt handle come up slightly and this will prevent the safety from being disenganged. You must close the bolt completely on the Tikka just like described on the Model 70 in question.

I believe the safety should lock the handle down and prevent it from drifting up. The Weatherby accomplishes this the Tikka does not.

Be warned this may not be just a brand phenomena.

You should be warned that you are not allowed to say anything positive on this forum about a Weatherby or a Remington 700. Severe censorship may occur. But at least you did not mention Remington

Mike

There is nothing wrong with a 3 pos. safty, its probably the best safty around..Anything machanical will fail if improperly installed and therein lies the problem I am sure.

The Remington safety locked the bolt down in the old rifles as did the Tang on the Rugers. The consumer demanded the ability to remove rounds while the safety was on, so both these rifles' safeties were changed to allow it. Personally I prefer the bolt locked down because I've had problems with the bolt rising while sneaking around in the brush.

JD

You have hit the nail on the head why there i no perfec rifle because differeny people want different things and there are different conditions.

For example, in Australia most shooters at best will have the bolt pushed forward but the handle has not be turned down. In fact about the only time I have used a safety is on M70 to get the firing pin out.

But then again we shoot a lot of animals and not much importance is attached to a particular animal. If you were with a group of blokes all out spotlight shooting in the truck and had your rifle loaded with the safety on you would be very unpopular.

Actually a lot of the time we don't even load the magazine but just drop a round in the action and close the bolt. Thus a lot of us see the CRF rifle as a pain in the arse.

Mike

Mike,
A couple of things come to mind on your post..one being don't you find it just as easy to push a round down in the magazine as drop it into the chamber as the bolt has to be closed anyway and the gun can be in any position to do this..I have found this to be so when hunting dangerous game...

Also it's no trick to alter the extractor on a CFR to take a round in the tube, but I don't do that because it seems to me it would weaken the extractor.

Just some points of conversation for what they are worth knowing that shooting in Australia does not require a CFR except for the big cattle, in which case I think I would prefer one...

Mike, I was wondering if everyone else did the same too.

As to this story it reads like a John pondoro tale.

"Well d y'see. He fiddled about with the safety when the beastie charged"

All that safety walking around with a rifle to have less chance of stopping immediate dangerous game- which is what you are there for in the first place.

Karl.

Ray,

Not of a night time when the vehich is roaring along. Whatis common is the round is either placed to far forward and then jams the rifle or it gets fiddle on the earkier M70s where the bolt stop has the bolt stop quite just past the back of the magazzine box or half way across it and the round gets caught.

I grew up with M17s with the extractors ground and in the 60s most of out here neck sized and used a vice die when the case got too tight and using a vice die meant cases go pretty tight before they were sized. The M17 extractors would jump over the rim.

The other thing which used to foul uop M17s and Mausers was that a lot of us loaded with a straight line tool and hammered the case into the die. Case rims with burs or distorted are will bring a CRF to end in quick time.

On a wild nights spotlight shooting, especially the New Eve's type and the bloke with the CRF will be one with trouble.

CRF is much like other German over engineering in that works great when everything is right, but when things are wrong you have trouble. Rim thickness, extractor groove diamter and rim condition are vital for CRF to do its thing.

As I said on some other post, in a 1000 cycle test the in line centre feed will beat the staggered feed CRF and double so with calibres like 416 Rem and 458 lott with blunt bullets that are not much smaller than the chamber diamter.

Try an experiment for yourself. Load 400 Hornadies backwards in a 416 Wby and the same in a CZ 416 Rigby or M70 416 Rem and the Wby will eat them for breakfast and especially if you really bang the bolt home quickly.

Mike

Karl,

I could never figure why people dont have the round in the chamber and the bolt handle up.

Imagine a weeks spotlight shooting where sheep turn out to be in the way etc, at the end of the week the safety would be either very well run in or worn out

Another thing where push feed wins (although this was never thought of when CRFs were designed) is their tendency to slip over case rims that have been loaded a lot. The PF not only tries to pull the case back but also applies a rotation force to the case at the same time.

If one forgets all bias then there are a couple of facts that stand out. The biggest selling bolt action, the Rem 700 is PF. Of the most commonly encountered or purchased factory rifles, the espensive ones are push feed.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike375:
Karl,

I could never figure why people dont have the round in the chamber and the bolt handle up.

Mike,
Because they paid for that extra little safety feature and by gum they are going to use it.

On that note there is nothing funnier than someone juggling safeties and expensive shells for the first time during 'high speed culling'.

You get the cycling of live rounds, firing with the safety on, trying to refill the mag and pick up cases at the same time, then flinching shots because the last three never went off etc.

And then they want to take these skills on foot against something that can end their life in a few seconds...

Karl.

Mike,

You mention about having a round in the chamber and having the bolt handle up. My PH preferred that method.

On my Rugers and CZ's, there is a midpoint detent when closing the bolt that will prevent the bolt from opening or closing on it's own. It is also that way on my Weatherby rifles.

It is not that way on my Winchesters. If the safety is in the middle position, the bolt can work it's way open and you can have the round ejected.

Mike and Karl: Hunting out of a vehicle, your method is definitely the way to go. Personally I don't trust safeties at all, and I have had to school many people about proper carry in the vehicle. Most states in the USA I've hunted, it's illegal to have a bullet in the chamber anyway. In Africa where the guns are carried in a rack, they should never have a bullet in the chamber in the vehicle either.

Longbob and JD,

In all my years of shooting (and acconpanied by a keen interest in what people use and do) and looking at the Australian gun forums about the only time safety catch comes up as a point is the M70 for the ease of taking the firing pin out.

I use to bed and do the triggers on a lot rifles for people and the M70 safety was very common for not working at all. I would always check safeties first because trigger jobs can much up the safety.

I think Americans and Europeans are in general bigger on things like CRF as compared to Australians because the keen Australian shooter is doing a much higher volume of shooting and in much rougher conditions and rebarreling a lot more. Our main barrel maker who also does heaps of rebarreling hates CRF M70s. Cutting the extractor slot being one reason and some bloke wanting his 270 rebarreled to 243 or 308 etc.

Bt we are all different and different countries have different shootin conditiions and I guess that is why we have all the different type of rifles.

Just as side note, I think I can close the bolt handle down easier and more quickly than let a M70 saftey off from the fully on position.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by ChuckWagon:
Not to detract from anyones incredibly bad jokes but I just wonder if we should now put the model 70 safety in the same class as the remington ?

No kidding. My DGR is a Mod 70 and it had the bad habit of popping full cartridges right out of the magazine.

Never had that happen with a Rem 700...

Funny how I have yet to hear of anyone getting trampled by a buffalo because their Rem700 or non-CRF Mod 70 or even their Weatherby Mark V did not eject the case.

Does anyone have one?

Not by a Buff, but wasn't there a Bown Bear guide that got mauled by using a Sako because his rifle jammed???

MIke,
An interresting post and shows a lot of experience as to your type of hunting...so I suspect you know from whence you come on the subject...

However I have to warn you that all my guns have been tweeked to the point that most would feed a beer can if need be..remember I shoot a lot of flat nose solids and cup points...and my dummy rounds happen to be Woodleighs stuffed in backwards!

I suppose it could all be summed up that shit happens, and it probably makes little difference what gun we have when the chips are down, faith and raw courage seems to be the best action around...

The problem with the M70 Safety issue and the bloke with the bear and the Sako is a lot of noise is made but you don't hear about it when no other event is connected with the rifle problem.

All the rifles have their moments at different times. But one thing is for sure and that is in line centre feed magazine will always win the feeding reliability contest and doubly so with calibres where the bullet is close to chamber diameter and a blunt of flat noes bullet is being used.

Mike

Ray,

That is good your rifles will feed beer cans because such articles can often be found in association with spotlight shooting.

Mike

I noticed a bunch of folks said that they would have had the safety off while following up a wounded buff. The only problem with this is that if you bump the bolt up just as happened in this case, the rifle normally will misfire, so that couldn't have been much of a help either. It was just a case of Murphy's law again, sometimes things just go wrong. Like some of the others, I often carry a rifle safety off, bolt up, chamber loaded, especially my truck gun for coyotes.