I'm curious about the circumstances of the unfortunate cape buffalo attack on Niki Atcheson last year.

Someone told me that the story was published in a magazine, but I haven't seen it.

The same person told me that some kind of safety mishap was involved (possibly a three postion safety that was locked somehow?) but I didn't get any of the details.

Anybody know anything more about this?

Yes, I heard something about it too.

I think it was with a Winchester Model 70.

Sports AfieldFeb/Mar '05, "The Charge" by Keith Atcheson, p.60ff

Safari Jan/Feb '05, "A Single Drop of Blood", by Nicole Atcheson, p.24ff

Keith's article has some good photos and his discussion of his refle's failure to fire.

Niki's article is part 1 of a two-part series.

I talked with Niki in Reno about her recuperation, which seems to be really great. I watched her walk, and you can detect a slight hitch in her get along, but probably only if you are looking for it.

jim

The malfunction was because the safety was in the middle position allowing the bolt to lift slighlty. The shooter couldn't disengage the safety as the bolt was out of battery.(SP?)

I've had the same thing happen on a three position safety. But anybody who knows shit from shineolla should know about that potential problem with a three position safety.

The only time a three position safety should be in the middle position is to load or unload the gun. NEVER carry a weapon equiped with such a safety in the middle position either have it full on locking the bolt down or full off.

I spoke to Niki in Reno also, wanted to tell her she was one hell of a lady. She will be the first to tell you that she never should have shot that buff, she did not have a good sight picture but pulled the trigger anyway.

CFA

mrlexma,

In case you do not wait for the magazines to arrive, here is the gist of it. Mrs. A. hit her buffalo in the brisket first shot (broadside) so the bullet did not hit vitals. When they caught up with the buff the next day, it charged. If I recall the PH got a bullet into it as it ran to Mrs. A. Mr. A. couldn't get his model 70 off safe because he had it in the middle position and the bolt had gotten pushed up. Mrs. A. lifted her rifle to fire, but the buffalo's nose hit the end of her gun barrel before she shot. So the buffalo worked her over a bit, with her husband finally getting the safety off and braining the bull. I think the PH got some shots in too.

That is just a rough description from memory.

Ngagi as one of the gun forums nastiest shit stirrers I can say with some authority that that post was about the nastiest I have seen in a while.

Like a joke reading 'What do you do for a woman who is trampled into the ground by a cape buff?"

"Tell the Whole Internet what colour her underwear was during the attack!".

That is big time.

Karl.

Not to detract from anyones incredibly bad jokes but I just wonder if we should now put the model 70 safety in the same class as the remington ?

Here is the on-line link to Niki Atcheson's story "A Single Drop of Blood". It is an interesting read....

http://www.scifirstforhunters.org/static/index.cfm?contentID=472

If it does not work go to Google and look for

"A Single Drop of Blood", by Nicole Atcheson"

Ron L

CW: No, Model 70 safeties actually DO WORK, unless of course there is operator error, unlike the 700s which seem to go off by "divine providence" along with the riveted extractor and glued on bolt handles. jorge

Mark,

Just my opinion, but I think you should delete your post.

Regards,

Terry

Chuckwagon and T. Carr,
He should only delete it if he feels he has overstepped the 'Mark'

Karl.

What an idiot. That's the most stupid thing I've seen on this forum in a long time - and that's saying a lot.

Although not discreet it says more about the ph's than Nikki. I see it as a slam on them not her. I think Nikki is one hell of a gal. I must say that was a bone headed thing for Keith to do with the safety. It just goes to show that even someone with experience can stuff things up on any given day. I am sure he has been second guessing and berating himself ever since.

Totally uncalled for in my opinion.

A few people(myself included) grew up using 2 position safeties and changing to a 3 position safety is a mistake because it's hard to retrain muscle memory. I have seen this mistake more than once, and I've also seen a person eject a magazine full of rounds thinking he was firing when he had moved the safety from safe to the middle position. It's amazing how adrenalin and muscle memory take over during stress.

Okay, I deleted my post. Sorry, but it is a true story....It was the only thing anybody seemed to talk about, but O agree, i probably shouldn;t have said anything.

Mark,

Thanks.


David W and
AfricanHunter,

Can you please edit your posts since you quoted Mark's post.

Regards,

Terry

Maybe David W also, he has quote something also.
Thanks Terry
L

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
Mark,

Thanks.


David W and
AfricanHunter,

Can you please edit your posts since you quoted Mark's post.

Regards,

Terry

Terry,

I haven't got the edit thingy sorted out with the new system. TYried something and it didn't work.

Oh for Christ's sake !


JohnTheGreek

AfricanHunter,

I deleted the quoted section from your original post.

Regards,

Terry

For Christ's sakes, if the fact that someone is wearing a certain design/color of underwear is too racy a story for this forum, y'all should take up knitting.

Here is a copy of my post on M 70 safeties from another forum.
==============================================

As mentioned before the actual rifle should be examined to determine, if possible, the cause.

A M70 Classic was mentioned so I just tried the two I have. Each operated properly with the safety full back meaning that no matter how the bolt handle was positioned the safety would come off.

However with the safety wing at half postition the bolt opens and then, as many already know, the safety cannot be pushed off until the bolt is closed.

Going by the assumption that the subject rifle has a normal safety I think that the safety wing was not all the way back and therefore the bolt opened some. This is easy to happen as the M70's safety has two detents for the spring loaded pin to fall into and neither is at the full safe postion!

I find this to be a design defect. I have modified one of my M70 safeties by adding a detent to the full safe position. There is no harm to this and what with the slicking I did to the mechinism it's smoother and far more quiet than before.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:
Oh for Christ's sake !

Are you allowed to say "Christ" in an Islamic country?

When I originally posted that I thought it was awefully ironic that the only facts that anyone seemed to know was about the underpants. No stories of the attack, or what the details were.

That was the first thing anybody said when I asked about it, and the different people I talked to didn't even know each other! Remember, this was just a week or so after the event,and just a few miles from where I was, so it was the big buzz...

It really was meant to be more of a poke at the PH's than at Niki herself, and I appologize for even bringing it up.

At the risk of being asked to edit or delete my post, let me ask a question:
If I am in the thick stuff, following up a wounded Buff, and it could be 8 paces from me, would my safety be on or off? My opinion is that it would be off. I understand that the safety come off while you are shouldering the gun, but it still seems that something could go wrong. I might not even have the chance to shoulder the gun at all.
Never been there (yet) just asking. What would the PH recommend, presumably based on his having seen your gun handling skills on the previous days?
Peter.

Hey, that is not the only problem with 3-position safeties.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Talk is cheap. Safety or no safety, shit happens and I feel sorry for her and Keith. Most of the rest of the dangerous game hunters are just lucky the same thing hasn't happened to them.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
For Christ's sakes, if the fact that someone is wearing a certain design/color of underwear is too racy a story for this forum, y'all should take up knitting.

It's not an issue of being "too racy", it is an issue of, in my opinion, being disrespectful of Niki Atcheson. There is a limit about matters of a personal nature which I think have no place on the internet.

That being said, no one has been edited involuntarily. They all chose to make the changes to their posts.

I and others voiced our opinion to Mark's post and he chose to edit it.

Regards,

Terry

P.S.
If they were talking about your wife on the internet in the way that this topic started out, how would you feel?

JohntheGreek and Gatogordo

I agree! T Carr is a great resource for this forum, but came off as a bit of a prig on this one. Mark's post struck me as simiply amazement on his part that the details of the incident were overshadowed in the memories of the PHs by the facts of what the victim was wearing and not posted for the prurient interests as to Nikki's choice of under garments. I wonder if the same disgust would have been evident had the victim been butt ugly, 240 pounds and wore Winnie the Poo boxers.

Perry

Perry

I would bet M'bogo would bid a big number if the mentioned women's briefs appeared on ebay.

Sorry meant N'gagi.
Apologies to M'bogo

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
At the risk of being asked to edit or delete my post, let me ask a question:
If I am in the thick stuff, following up a wounded Buff, and it could be 8 paces from me, would my safety be on or off? My opinion is that it would be off. I understand that the safety come off while you are shouldering the gun, but it still seems that something could go wrong. I might not even have the chance to shoulder the gun at all.
Never been there (yet) just asking. What would the PH recommend, presumably based on his having seen your gun handling skills on the previous days?
Peter.

Peter,

I have tracked a wounded buffalo through the thick jess. I was preceded by a tracker and the PH. Given the fact that your are constantly bending, crawling, stooping and moving your rifle around in order to make your way through the jess, it is impossible not to accidentally point your muzzle at one of the guys ahead of you. In those conditions, a rifle with the safety disengaged could easily accidentally discharge.

I would think any PH would require that the safety be engaged.

Regards,

Terry

quote:

Going by the assumption that the subject rifle has a normal safety I think that the safety wing was not all the way back and therefore the bolt opened some. This is easy to happen as the M70's safety has two detents for the spring loaded pin to fall into and neither is at the full safe postion!

Savage,

If you'd read the articles in Safari and Sports Afield you see that was the case, admittidly so by the shooter Mr. A he had the safety in the middle position thinking that it'd be faster to bring the gun into action.

A valuble lesson which I learned a long time ago and if you're not aware of it the safety not disengaging quite is a surprising thing to have happen to you.

edited for spelling

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Sorry meant N'gagi.
Apologies to M'bogo

Cmon pal, I changed my post...Read PWN's post, then let it go.

quote:

Originally posted by PWN375:
JohntheGreek and Gatogordo

I agree! T Carr is a great resource for this forum, but came off as a bit of a prig on this one. Mark's post struck me as simiply amazement on his part that the details of the incident were overshadowed in the memories of the PHs by the facts of what the victim was wearing and not posted for the prurient interests as to Nikki's choice of under garments. I wonder if the same disgust would have been evident had the victim been butt ugly, 240 pounds and wore Winnie the Poo boxers.

Perry

Perry

Perry,

A "prig"? I am going to have to go look that up.

I understand the intent of Mark's original post. It was a slam at the PH's sophomoric remarks.

What I don't understand is how anyone can support that kind of statement on a public forum when it has the affect of being completely disrespectful towards Niki Atcheson.

I will guarantee you, I would not allow anything of that nature to be posted about my wife. I don't care that the original intent of the post was not prurient in nature.

If you would like, I can give you Keith Atcheson's number and you can call him and tell him your views on this matter.

Mark doesn't need anyone to defend him. I am not mad at Mark, I just think he made an error in judgement.

Regards,

Terry

P.S.
Interesting that you should call me a prig when my comment was simply, "Just my opinion, but I think you should delete your post." Other members were much more pronounced in their objections. How did they escape the prig classification?

Please close this thread. No further posts are needed.

500,

I am allowed to say "Christ" in this Islamic Nation. There is actually a Coptic Orthodox church just down the street and I would wager they use the word with regularity !

Best,

JohnTheGreek

I'm almost tempted to start a 45-70 thread just to divert attention and bury this one!! hahaha

I understood Marks intention and it wasn't meant to be disrespectful in any way.

So who's up for Buff Hunting with a 45-70 in a single action hand gun?

I haven't looked at this thread since I opened it.

I even missed all of the "excitement" since I never saw the deleted posts. But since I started it, I'll weigh in.

I only wanted the technical details concerning the rifle's failure. Thank you to all of those who provided that information. I will read the published accounts.

But knowing now what I do from this thread, I think it took a fair amount of courage on the part of the Atchesons to publish these details.

Second guessing is easy, but I'd sure as hell rather learn from someone else's mistakes than my own, and I appreciate it every time I have the opportunity to do so.


I have three position safeties on all of my hunting rifles, except my Blaser R93s, and all I can say is, there but for the grace of God . . .