Times are hard and we are all looking for ways to conserve. I belong to SCI like just about everyone else around here. Why should I continue to pay my dues? What do I get for my money other than Safari magazine and an invitation to Reno every year? It doesn't seem to me that they do shit.

oh God, here we go again!!!!!!!!!!!! it is bash SCI time

Not bashing, I just want to know what they do with my money and why I should continue to help fund them. The NRA, which I also support, has a good track record with measurable results. With SCI, I am not so sure.

Interesting question - look forward to the answer

Here is what SCI's own website states: "Since inception, Safari Club International (SCI) has become a truly amazing organization. Our approximately 190 chapters provide us with a way to make and gather with friends, our Convention is a place to celebrate and enjoy our hunting heritage, and our Foundation is recognized as a world leader in wildlife conservation and education programs.

A quick look at our financial reports to the US Internal Revenue Service reveals that SCI has spent nearly $300 million on hunter advocacy and wildlife conservation since inception (actual value is $278,186,963 from 1979 to 2008). The growth of the organization in both hunter advocacy and conservation led to a strategic decision to separate the two efforts into separate businesses in 1999: Safari Club International, a 501( c )4 hunter advocacy organization, and Safari Club International Foundation, a 501( c )3 charitable organization.

SCI

Since 2000, SCI has spent $140 million on protecting the freedom to hunt through policy advocacy, litigation and education for federal and state legislators to ensure hunting is protected for future generations. The passion of SCI members is reflected in the doubling of expenditures in the last decade to accomplish these goals.

Through direct involvement and partnerships with like-minded organizations, SCI has become a political force in Washington, D.C. and other capitals around the world. Influence has been enhanced through strategic responses to issues to guarantee the hunter’s voice is heard, development of the largest hunter-drivien Political Action Committee that supports only pro-sportsman candidates and retains influential and effective lobbyists.

Our litigation staff, combined with the SCI Legal Task Force Committee, has engaged the anti sustainable-use community in federal and state courtrooms around the country. Development of a Hunting Legal Education course has further extended SCI’s reach to protect hunting opportunities in U.S. Courts.

Advocacy and education depend on effective, strategic and timely communication of issues to members and non-members. Our Safari Magazine and Safari Times newspaper publications have been recognized for their world class articles on hunting, firearms and identifying threats to our hunting heritage. The “In the Crosshairs” e-newsletter provides breaking news to more than 45,000 members on a weekly basis. SCI’s annual convention is widely viewed as the largest gathering of hunters and the hunting industry in the world attracting more than 22,000 attendees and dedicated SCI members."

I too have been a staunch SCI supporter. I love Safarimagazine. But, I'm not seeing where the money is going, other than from the chapters. If they would put up $250,000.00 for lion conservation, I'd stay with them. But, I will probably let my membership lapse, because they won't.

And, here is what it also states as to the SCI Foundation: "SCI Foundation

Since 2000, SCI Foundation (SCIF) has provided $47 million to conservation, wildlife education, and humanitarian programs around the world. Growth of SCIF has continued to gain momentum through charitable donations from SCI members and direct grants from local chapters and the SCI organization. A recent effort that just completed its fund-raising drive is the Hunter Legacy Fund which is a dedicated funding source for wildlife conservation . This endowment was created by one hundred individuals and corporations, dedicating a pledge of $100,000 to create a $10 million endowment to ensure conservation programs of SCIF will continue long into the future. A similar effort kicked off in 2008 to create an endowment for conservation education.

With recent expenditures exceeding $5 million annually, SCI Foundation has continued to promote science–based conservation through wildlife research, capacity building in governments, youth and teacher education, and humanitarian programs which show the importance of the hunting community in society. A project nearing completion, called the “White Book”, will showcase nearly 150 conservation projects where SCIF has made major contributions to the world of wildlife management.

This year, the Conservation Department facilitated nine African nations to sit down together and discuss conservation of the African lion, including the issue of human-lion conflict. SCIF continues to strengthen our emphasis on North American conservation, with major support for two predator-prey projects and involvement in several projects throughout the continent. Our Eurasian efforts feature a ground breaking field study of snow leopards in Siberia as well as significant contributions to the management of several species across that continent.

Nestled in the beautiful Bridger-Teton National Forest near Jackson, Wyoming, SCIF’s American Wildnerness Leadership School (AWLS) provides the perfect atmosphere for the accredited educational programs. Established in 1976 with the vision of providing educators with a useful hands-on experience that they can use in the classroom, AWLS has provided a credited wildlife management program more than 5,000 teachers who reach more than a million students annually, and fun, challenging experiences for 1273 high school students. The AWLS program has expanded to provide conservation education opportunities in 4 other locations in the United States. SCIF has also provided scholarships to nearly 100 college students who have enrolled in natural resource management or conservation education fields.

SCIF Humanitarian Services programs have also experienced significant growth in recent years. In the last 5 years, the Sportsmen Against Hunger Program has donated over 1 million pounds (almost 500,000 kg) of venison to those in need. Nearly 500 Safari Care Bags (the “Blue Bags”) were delivered to needy villages and orphanages around the world. Over 300 disabled hunters were provided with an assisted hunting experience through SCIF programs.

The International Wildlife Museum is dedicated to increasing knowledge of, and appreciation for, the diverse wildlife of the world as well as explaining the role of wildlife management in conservation. Founded in 1988, the museum has over 400 kinds of insects, mammals and birds from all over the globe, provides visitors the opportunity to see animals up close, and to gain a better understanding of their size and adaptive characteristics. At the museum, visitors are also exposed to the role of hunting in wildlife management and the role SCI and SCIF play in promoting wildlife management. In 2008, nearly 70,000 visitors from all over the world (almost 40% of them children) experienced the exhibits and were exposed to SCI’s message.

These are just a few of the accomplishments of Safari Club International and Safari Club International Foundation Throughout the world, our approximately 190 chapters are contributing time, talent, and financial support to local, national, and international conservation projects. While economic times may be trying, the passion for conservation remains strong with SCI Foundation. Please join us in membership or partnership as we continue to ensure that wildlife remains abundant for future generations. SCI and SCIF have earned the coveted Charity Navigator 4-star rating, your contribution will be used in an effective manner."

Drook,
I let mine go in December, their a bunch of self righteous elitist's anyway. The NRA convention is here in Phoenix, wanna come out and play? Phoenix will never be the same
Chip

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
Drook,
I let mine go in December, their a bunch of self righteous elitist's anyway. The NRA convention is here in Phoenix, wanna come out and play? Phoenix will never be the same
Chip

That's a good idea. I will give it some thought.

quote:

Originally posted by adrook:
Times are hard and we are all looking for ways to conserve. I belong to SCI like just about everyone else around here. Why should I continue to pay my dues? What do I get for my money other than Safari magazine and an invitation to Reno every year? It doesn't seem to me that they do shit.

Adrook,

I've never joined SCI because they seem to be all wound up in keeping score in record books on horn, antler and tusk size, as if hunting is some sort of contest. Likewise, it appears to me that; The more money one has to hunt with around the world, the more likely he is to reap the narcissistic SCI awards or plaques. Or whatever they give to the guy with enough money to clobber more and bigger animals than the next guy. No matter if it was shot after many miles of foot work, blisters and patience or from the back of a truck while one of the trackers politely held the mighty nimrod's cold drink for the shot. That sort of thing is not my bag, pardon the pun. Stalking animals on foot that are past their breeding years, no matter what they're wearing on their heads or in their gums, seems to make more sense to me in the long run for each species.

Invest your money in The NRA Political Fund. They really are defending your Constitutional/Bill of Rights against the rising tide of Socialism in this country.

Keep Well.
Ard.

I am a Life member of SCI, and think what I had paid to be a member has been well worth it.

I get a big laugh each time I see the Awards in the magazine. It reminds me of little kids each one is saying "mine is bigger than yours". Except we are not seeing little kids doing, it but those who are normally successful in other ways in their lives.

I also get a good laugh each time the "ethics" committee is mentioned1

What a bloody oxymoron!

Yep, I have absolutely no regret in being a member of SCI.

I keep thinking that the dues I have paid has been part of that $55,000 we managed to find they have spent on Africa since 2002!

I am and have been a NZ Chapter and SC International member for the past 10 years.

I think what they appear to be concentrating on lately is fighting the antis and also government wildlife issues and other lawsuits, that is why they set up a DC Office to (dare I say it) LOBBY for wildlife conservation and protection of hunters rights.

So they are more into the BIG MONEY issues than the little one-off type of thing. They do periodically withhold or cancel the membership of outfitters whom have been rouges in some isolated instances

Peter

quote:

I am a Life member of SCI, and think what I had paid to be a member has been well worth it.

I get a big laugh each time I see the Awards in the magazine. It reminds me of little kids each one is saying "mine is bigger than yours". Except we are not seeing little kids doing, it but those who are normally successful in other ways in their lives.

+1
Seloushunter

The question is.. Can "we" ( you) afford NOT to be a member of SCI?

We may not all agree with them, but still don't want to be without them.

This is getting FUCKING boring! It is like NRA membership - when the take your guns don't blame them and when you have no hunting rights don't blame the SCI. FUCK THE LIONS! I never liked Detroit any way!

quote:

FUCK THE LIONS!

I am sure many would pay to see you do that

They keep on saying how much they have spent on this that and the other.The intersting thing would be to find out how much they have collected then you can really see how much they have spent

SCI isn't perfect. As stated above, I'd hate to be without them. Hunters need all the help we can get!

I'm a life member!

I'm not renewing until they start doing more on disclosure.

crane are you going to give up your US citizenship also?

quote:

I get a big laugh each time I see the Awards in the magazine. It reminds me of little kids each one is saying "mine is bigger than yours". Except we are not seeing little kids doing, it but those who are normally successful in other ways in their lives.

RIGHT ON

Look! There are things I don't like about SCI as there are things I do not like about the NRA but I think they both serve a purpose. In the case of SCI I think you could safely say that without SCI, its off shoot DSC and the conventions that the safari business would not be what it is. These conventions provide an important venue for hunters and safari operators to get together, sit down and do some business that cannot be done anyother way.

As for the records I think that they provide an excellent source of information. Mnay people planning on going to Africa have no real idea what makes a representative trophy let alone a real top trophy. With the SCI record book it only takes a short while to figure out what is a good trophy and what is a dink. An unscrupulous PH just loves a guy that says "I never bring a tape. I just want to hunt". This would be like going on a $15,000 elk hunt in the States and being happy with a 5 point rag horn. I personally don't much care about Diamond Awards etc but I do like to know where my trophies rank in the book. It's part of the fun.

Mark

A magazine, a newspaper, a convention and the hope they do some good for hunting. All this for the cost of a box of shells or a dinner with the wife. To me it is worth the small investment they ask for.

Also I agree with Mark about the trophy/record book thing. Afterall we can't just wait for all of you that don't care about trophies to post photos on sites such as this of the "big" ones you took.

Could SCI do better - sure. Tell them about it, but do while your a member.

BigB
In my mind

OH MY GOD Mark you are a heritic!

I know this isn't about accounting but since I am A Certified Public Accountant that sell accounting software to Not for Profit organizations, this sounds like an Accounting and Reporting issue to me.

It should be a simple thing for the organization to publish the total amount of revenue they receive and the sources of those revenues and how much they receive from each source. They should even be able to break down those revenues by purpose. So if someone gives money for lion conservation they should be able to show that.

Then of course on the expense side they should be able to do the same thing. How much money was spent, for what was it spent and from what sources of revenue did we get the money we spent. If they will not do that for their members then that is a problem. The members should demand an accounting in the appropriate forum. They must have a member meeting where members have an opportunity to vote on specific issues.

If they are a not for profit organization they must file a Form 990 with the US Internal Revenue Service. Even though this form does not require disclosure of revenues from outside the united states it will give a tax based picture of how the organization operates in the US. This form 990 is posted online.

Sorry I dont have time to find the link to the form 990 right now but if I find it for SCI or its Non profit foundation I will post the link.



Tim

DOJ,

I guess I've been called worse. I don't like the OOA situation nor do I like the business about spouses and guests having to be SCI members to attend the convention BUT SCI is an integral part of this safari business. If someone does not like what is going on with SCI write them a letter, e-mail them, whatever.

Mark

slimtim, the link to SCI and SCIFoundation have been linked on here many times. Their 990 is very lenghty. So you are proposing that a Not for Profit or a charitable org should post their Cash Disbursement Journal and cross reference all donations to the specific check which transferred that specific donation to the specified requested expenditure donation. You sound more like a programmer than a CPA.

If you don't believe in an organizations mission statement then stay home, or get really involved and run for the board and once inside you can dig to your hearts content.

What you are suggesting sounds like you just had lunch with Saeed and Steve.

Maybe you should contact SCI and sell them one of your packaged programs for Not for Profits.

JMO from one CPA to another.

Geez this stuff really me off!
If it wasn't for the NRA we in the US may very well be like the UK as far as gun rights are concerned.
If it wasn't for SCI we might be like Kenya as far as hunting is concerned.
There are dozens of organizations around the globe that are trying to figure out how to take YOUR firearms and hunting away. SCI and NRA are among the few that are trying to protect those rights for ALL OF US. Grow up gentlemen!

Man this act is tired. Here is what I get - the conventions, local chapter shows that allow me to educate myself on places to go and things to hunt.

It allows me to meet other folks with like interests in the community.

It provides a pro gun and hunting voice, there are too many folks voicing their displeasure about guns and hunting.

It does provide some defacto standard for trophy quality.

Charitable work for causes like the Wounded Warrior.

SCI recognizes Veterans, very few other organizations do.

I think we need folks like SCI, NRA, DU, QU, Pheasants Forever, RMEF, etc. The more voices the better.

In order to affect change you need to be a member, not just complain about the organization on the internet.

+ This is one of the things that Justice Scalia said at the SCI Convention about gun ownership, hunting and gun rights. We need the voices, we need them to be public, we need them to be heard and we individually need to be a part of it. If gun ownership and hunting rights are not spoken of in public and in positive terms then sooner or later we will not have either. When was the last time that you read something about guns in the news media that was positive? Think about it, and think about what we all need to do to change the perception of hunting and guns, just here in the United States. I believe that all of the organizations listed above help us do that.

Charity Navigator is a watchdog organization that evaluates non for profit organizations, although they do not evaluate 501c4 organizations which are designed for advocacy purposes (lobbying). But they do rate the SCI Foundation, which is the education, conservation and humaniatarian services side of SCI.

They rate the SCI Foundation (501c3) with 4 stars, which is the highest rating an organization can receive in its evaluation.

SCI Foundation

80% of SCI's spending going to programs.

Both 501c organizations are run by the same leadership, with the same management style and priorities, so I would expect similar performance from SCI (501c4).

Being very active on the chapter side of things, SCI is the only hunting organization that I know of that allows the chapters to keep 70% of all fundraising to benefit projects in their state or area that chapter is active.

Having the numbers of members is what politians sit up and take notice of, so it is important that we all belong to SCI and the NRA.

In my opinion SCI is to hunting what the NRA is to the 2nd Amendment. If we want to leave the hunting heritage to our kids and granchildren, we must belong to both.

I belong to most of the conservation outfits and am a Life member of the NRA, which are the two outfits with full time staff in DC working to protect our rights. Nobody else does that, that I am aware of.

I also don't agree with everything either of them does all the time, and some things piss me off, but they are the best we have.

So for the "whats in it for me" crowd, the real question is "what's in it for our next generation"? Allot!

At th end of the day we ALL ave a right to join or not.

It is patiently obvious to me that SCI is here to stay and that they are the optimum worldwide hunting and conservation association.

So if you have (worldwide hunting interests) then consider SCI, if you want more local then consider the smaller DSC HSC and similar.

The downside of any grouping or association that get large is the personal focus on an individual becomes less and less, that is a fact of life, we need to understand that.

SCI will be around for a long long while yet and their power to make meaningful change and fight the BIG FIGHT collectively on our behalf will always be there.

If we try to take on the big issues as an individual we will lose that battle, we need to band together for a united approach, just the same as we do in politics, like it or not we need to have a well oiled machine (with money) to take on the issues.

I have seen individuals trying to fight alone against companies regards trophy dippack and delivery issues, very seldom do they succeed by themselves, it takes a (united firm stand) by many to win the day.

Cheers, Peter

DOJ- What SlimTim is saying, and we all know your are not that obtuse,is that real disclosure on who is getting what within the organization would cause a small to medium sized riot. And yes, Mark is a heritic for making those statements.

if you don't like SCI and its agenda, JUST DON'T JOIN!!!!!!!!!!!! this endless bitching really gets tedious

crane, Mark is spot on and SlimTim is just stupid for those comments being he states he is a CPA.

But what about the Lions?

I've said and posted this before, but what I don't understand is why can't they publish a similar thing to this?: http://www.grandcharity.org/da...ing_1982__feb_09.pdf

If those guys can do it, why can't SCI?

To be honest, I'm very suprised that they're not legally required to do so.

Steve let it go!

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Steve let it go!

Hey, I haven't said a word while you've been chirping away and insulting other members, because you're trying to argue an unwinnable point. Then when I do comment, you tell me to let it go.

So you're entitled to express your opinion, but I'm not........ Y'know, that ain't the way it works in the real world....

I fail to understand why you should think you have the right to express your opinion but I don't have the right to express mine.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Steve let it go!

Whoever said that SCI is run like a third world dictatorhsip was right.

Only "positive" views of them are allowed to be aired.