According to an article in the recen American Hunter, it killed a Cape buffalo, but it took 8 shots of Buffalo Bore 430grs to do so.

That means it is better than the 458 Winchester Magnum.

I know someone who has seen two individuals fire over 20 shots to kill a buffalo with a 458 Win Mag!

45-70 is more than capable of killing a buffalo with one shot.

As a wise man once said, one can pound nails with a pipe wrench, but that does not make it the right tool for the job.

Nothing wrong with the .45-70 in the hands of a competent reloader - or marksman (I too have seen a buffalo that looked like a collander with a .458). Probably worth mentioning that in countries like Zimbabwe, a round has to generate 3,910 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle to be legal on heavy, dangerous game.

Shot placement rules!

Of course it's capable, but the wrench/hammer analogy is perfect. That and the fact that a 45/70 in Africa is akin to putting an ice cube in a wee dram of Lagavulin....

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Of course it's capable, but the wrench/hammer analogy is perfect. That and the fact that a 45/70 in Africa is akin to putting an ice cube in a wee dram of Lagavulin....

I guess that means I can't pour diet Pepsi into a wee dram of Lagavulin, huh?

quote:

I guess that means I can't pour diet Pepsi into a wee dram of Lagavulin, huh?

Precisely, sir...

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Of course it's capable, but the wrench/hammer analogy is perfect. That and the fact that a 45/70 in Africa is akin to putting an ice cube in a wee dram of Lagavulin....

I guess that means I can't pour diet Pepsi into a wee dram of Lagavulin, huh?

Oi Vey!



If your going to do that, you might as well buy a Double Rifle with a beavertail fore-end.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
According to an article in the recen American Hunter, it killed a Cape buffalo, but it took 8 shots of Buffalo Bore 430grs to do so.

45/70 for buffalo

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Of course it's capable, but the wrench/hammer analogy is perfect. That and the fact that a 45/70 in Africa is akin to putting an ice cube in a wee dram of Lagavulin....

I guess that means I can't pour diet Pepsi into a wee dram of Lagavulin, huh?

Oi Vey!



If your going to do that, you might as well buy a Double Rifle with a beavertail fore-end.

And a Merkel to boot...

Come on guys, you have to read the whole article.
The author admitted that he botched the first shot and the other seven were just trying to hit a moving target anywhere that he could.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Of course it's capable, but the wrench/hammer analogy is perfect. That and the fact that a 45/70 in Africa is akin to putting an ice cube in a wee dram of Lagavulin....

I guess that means I can't pour diet Pepsi into a wee dram of Lagavulin, huh?

Oi Vey!



If your going to do that, you might as well buy a Double Rifle with a beavertail fore-end.

And a Merkel to boot...

NOPE. Merkel has a splinter fore-end.

Plenty of buff killed over the last few centuries with less. 430 grains at 2000 FPS better than most BP express ballistics. I use that load in a marlin. Shot placement always trumps ft lbs

I put a lot of emphasis on the quality of the bullet as well as shot placement. Also, with 45-70 there are some fun rifles to use.

I think that 45-70 is good if you choose a good bullet, get close and put the bullet in the engine room.

Regarding the OP subject line: Of course it can. A proper bullet in the right place from a .45-70 ought to let the air out of a buff.

I'll never know...and I'm a big fan of the old warhorse. I've carried a Marlin 1895 to Zim for leopard with hounds and that's a fast-handling combo that beats a scattergun at any reasonable distance and a scoped rifle up close.

For me, the answer for buffalo begins with the .375 H&H (though the .416 Rigby is my sentimental favorite).

Others are, of course, welcome to their own opinion.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by 218 Bee:
Regarding the OP subject line: Of course it can. A proper bullet in the right place from a .45-70 ought to let the air out of a buff.

I'll never know...and I'm a big fan of the old warhorse. I've carried a Marlin 1895 to Zim for leopard with hounds and that's a fast-handling combo that beats a scattergun at any reasonable distance and a scoped rifle up close.

For me, the answer for buffalo begins with the .375 H&H (though the .416 Rigby is my sentimental favorite).

Others are, of course, welcome to their own opinion.

Mark

Agreed.

Now my calibers start with “5”. Just because

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Of course it's capable, but the wrench/hammer analogy is perfect. That and the fact that a 45/70 in Africa is akin to putting an ice cube in a wee dram of Lagavulin....

I guess that means I can't pour diet Pepsi into a wee dram of Lagavulin, huh?

Oi Vey!



If your going to do that, you might as well buy a Double Rifle with a beavertail fore-end.

And a Merkel to boot...

NOPE. Merkel has a splinter fore-end.

Merkel IS a splinter...

quote:

That means it is better than the 458 Winchester Magnum.

I know someone who has seen two individuals fire over 20 shots to kill a buffalo with a 458 Win Mag!

45-70 is more than capable of killing a buffalo with one shot.

What was he using Remington COR-LOKT?

Buffalo Bore 430gr

As I said on other posts, I have killed 2 buffalo with North Fork Solid and Cup Point Solid bullets, in 300 grain .375 HH at about 2500fps, and 4 buffalo with Cutting Edge Bullet Solids and Raptors in 500 cal, 410/450 grain at about 1940 fps. Also, 3 buffalo with 577 NE, 700 gr. hard cast bullet and one with a Peregrine BushMaster 700 grain, at 1700 fps. All close range.



Both the buffalo killed with the 375 were heart shots and they ran about 30 yds. Bullet performance was excellent.

The buffalo killed with the .500 cal took only several steps. and fell over dead. They were shoulder shots, not heart shots.

The 577 NE with the slow moving Peregrine Bushmaster was a "bang flop" with a hit high centre in the shoulder at 40 yds.

For now, I am a believer that, for cape buffalo, bullet diameter, construction and shape are the significant factors. I used to think that velocity was a key factor but not so much now on buffalo. ( However, Saeed gets quick kills with .375 cal. using excellent bullets and high velocity. He has killed many more buffalo than I ever will. So different things work with buffalo.)

- A wide flat meplat is good thing in a solid.
- A hot 45-70 will hit at 50 yds like a 458 Win hits at 120+ yds.
-I usually use a solid first if I don't use a CEB Raptor.

I think it is fun to hunt with a rifle that you enjoy. Some of us cowboys love those lever actions. I now hunt with single shots because it's fun/exciting, not because a single shot is wise choice, it's not.

If a 45-70 floats your boat then use it with the above considerations.
"Different strokes for different folks."

PS. I have recently learned that the external ballistics (flight/velocity of bullet from muzzle to target) for a CEB Raptor is the same as a similar flat point solid and better if you insert the polymer tip.

With a tube feed magazine rifle you could use the Polymer tip Raptor with your first bullet loaded in the breach and then solids in the magazine.

With the polymer tip the Raptors kills even better I'm told.

An idiot named Carmelo used to post here. He was a .45-70 fan. He was a bit like Rich aka Idahosharpshooter in his interpersonal skills plus he was stupid.
Anyway, he testified here that a 45-70 was his pet gun to hunt buff.

Will it kill them? Yes. Will it kill as well as a .375HH, of course not.

I think that article is doing all of us a disservice by publishing an article like that.

A properly constructed bullet weighing at least 400gr and with a MV of at least 2000fps is certainly capable of killing any Cape buffalo that has ever lived when it hits the right spot.

Physics does not discriminate based upon the mindsets of people.

BH63

My OP was just like Todd posted .

I have no problems with the old .45-70, although I’ve never owned one. The author did a mea culpa on his initial shot.

Personally, I would want a more traditional African set up for the Cape. I personally filled a water buff in Argentina with a few .458s. The first shot dropped the buff where she stood (it was a planned cow hunt, not like our Canadian friend) and then got a death bellow. While waiting for the herd to clear, she rose from the dead and then took off with the herd. I planted a few more in her that should’ve been killing or anchoring shots, but it may have been about 5km of chasing. Upon skinning, there was even a shot that spines her, yet she kept going. Her nickname then became “Hell Bitch,” which may have been influenced by the 2016 election.

It was a fine camp gun, but I did not fire off a few prior and my shooting with irons needed some work.

DSC, Just a note:
Only two of my buffalo were bulls. (The two I shot with the 375.) I usually hunt cows as they are more in my budget. brian

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Canada:
DSC, Just a note:
Only two of my buffalo were bulls. (The two I shot with the 375.) I usually hunt cows as they are more in my budget.

That’s my style, Brian. Similar hunt, but cheaper.

DSC, Yes! The cow is standing right beside the bull. Take the cow!(Hell Bitch)
Several PH's told me that they have had more trouble with cows than bulls.

BuffHunter63, Yes 400 grains proper bullet at 2000fps+. That's the deal.

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Canada:
DSC, Yes! The cow is standing right beside the bull. Take the cow!(Hell Bitch)
Several PH's told me that they have had more trouble with cows than bulls.

BuffHunter63, Yes 400 grains proper bullet at 2000fps+. That's the deal.

I’ve read the tuskless cow is pretty pissed off like most of my ex girlfriends, but I can’t comment on what I don’t know.

I don't believe you ever do anyone a disservice by putting something out there. We're all capable of digesting what's said and making up our own minds. This has been a good discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
An idiot named Carmelo used to post here. He was a .45-70 fan. He was a bit like Rich aka Idahosharpshooter in his interpersonal skills plus he was stupid.
Anyway, he testified here that a 45-70 was his pet gun to hunt buff.

Will it kill them? Yes. Will it kill as well as a .375HH, of course not.

I think that article is doing all of us a disservice by publishing an article like that.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
My OP was just like Todd posted .

LOL Marcus. I knew what you were up to.

First thought was


Fun sometimes to poke the bear just for fun.

Sounds like bad shooting to me. It isn't the perfect buffalo caliber but with a proper bullet and higher pressure loading it will indeed kill a cape buffalo in short order.

DSC, I know that you are a serious hunter but you have a good sense of humour too. I like that. Brian

A bow will kill dangerous game as well. Personally, I agree with Richard Harland on this one. Use a weapon that will take care of business if things DON’T go just right.
The 45-70 is, however, way better than no gun at all.

DSC, I'm thinking your first shot on the water buff cow was the spine shot but the spine was not broken. She went right down but while the herd was milling around she got feeling back in her legs and took off with the herd when they fled. I have seen this same thing on TV when a man shot a cape buff bull and it went straight down and was still. The very large herd was running past him and like looking through a passing train you could see the bull wiggle and wrangle till he got back on feet and ran with the herd. They found him alone and two more shots with his 416 remington finished it.

Not sure why the angst about Merkel doubles... mine has gotten a few elephant and buffalo over the years!

At least it ain’t a Sabatti!

Gotta get as many hot buttons in one thread as we can....

Mark Sullivan hunting buffalo with a .45-70 Sabatti in South Africa anyone?

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Not sure why the angst about Merkel doubles... mine has gotten a few elephant and buffalo over the years!

At least it ain’t a Sabatti!

Gotta get as many hot buttons in one thread as we can....

Mark Sullivan hunting buffalo with a .45-70 Sabatti in South Africa anyone?

...with Hornady bullets and over a water hole.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Not sure why the angst about Merkel doubles... mine has gotten a few elephant and buffalo over the years!

At least it ain’t a Sabatti!

Gotta get as many hot buttons in one thread as we can....

Mark Sullivan hunting buffalo with a .45-70 Sabatti in South Africa anyone?

Operative word being "double" (as in doubling)..

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Not sure why the angst about Merkel doubles... mine has gotten a few elephant and buffalo over the years!

At least it ain’t a Sabatti!

Gotta get as many hot buttons in one thread as we can....

Mark Sullivan hunting buffalo with a .45-70 Sabatti in South Africa anyone?

Mark Sullivan and his clueless clients need a dozen 500 caliber shots and they still have to follow the farm tagged, named, buffalo for hours.

With a 45-70 they will need an ammo supply truck to follow them to kill a buffalo!

I want to say that I remember reading an article on the Barnes's 'Barn Buster' (I think it was called). I think it might have been written and/or tested by a 'Mrs' Barnes. Anyway, it claimed that bullet out of a 45/70 was a genuine DG round/rifle out of (IIRC) Marlin. I think it was tested on Bison. I'm sure someone else here must have read the same article.