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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Re: Controlled Round Feed vs. Push Feed mysteryGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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AZWriter, Apparantly you have missed the point altogether...A control feed rifle is for hunting situations on big game and especially on dangerous game...It is of little concern on varmints and targets... | ||
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The CRF concept was designed to eliminate the human error involved in manually operating a bolt. A properly tuned CRF should function at any speed or angle of manual operation. Autos are push-feeds because they cycle at about 10 times a second and elimate the possibility of human error. Try using an M-16 manually at all angles and see what happens. They turn into Remingtons very quickly. It proved ill-fated to make autos CRF, as the additional parts actually slow down the cyclic rate and cause unwanted heat build up. | |||
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Nicely said. JCN | |||
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You missed an earlier point. I have over 6400 rounds through my AR15 Push Feeds without a single malfunction. I'm also confident they will function upside down. But take a Model 700 or Weatherby with two rounds in the magazine, push the bolt 1/2 way home with the muzzle pointing down, then draw the bolt all the way to the rear and push it forward again. The poster said the first round would drop into the magazine and the second would therefore cause a jam. A CRF won't, he said. I'll have to try this. | |||
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Well said Kurtc, I totally agree. I have shot push feed 300 that smacks everything it meets, but have had exactly that same problem with two shells being loaded/double feed jam! in a rush while advancing on a downed animal. Not the most confidence building experience. Push feeds are fine on many applications, but for stuff that may cost a lot of money in lost animals and for stuff that may trample, claw or gore you, CRF or a good double is possibly the only answer. cheers. tm  | |||
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Quote:Quote: That is exactly my point - there are more important things to worry about. | |||
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Quote: A) The 'life and death" situations don't usually involve the sniper's life. B) People die more easily than most big game (And a LOT more easily than something like a buffalo). C) There are situations where one good shot isn't enough; in those situations, you need to fill the air with lead, something you cannot do with a jammed rifle. That is why we issue fully-automatic rifles to our infantry, and not sniper rifles. D) Military sniper rifles were CRF until the Rem. 700-based rifles began showing up in Viet Nam in the late 1960's. IIRC, Carlos Hathcock used a modified Winchester M70. Push-feed sniper rifles are a relatively recent adoption. George | |||
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Quote: Just so you know I tried it a year or so ago after wondering the same thing. (Hence my tag line) Every m700 I own worked upside down. This includes one that was converted to 300WSM, and every body knows they want feed in any thing. It really isn�t the point though, and if I were going after a big buff or bear it would be with a CRF.Shawn | |||
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Quote: You're wrong and should know better. Chuck | |||
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Today's snipers also carry automatic arms as their CQB weapons, and are instantly backed up with radios, gunships and armor. When snipers walked into combat, carrying their bolt action as their one and only arm, it was a CRF. | |||
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RIP, The sad part is that nearly every manufacturer in Europe made 98 pattern rifles at one time or another: Commercial rifles have been made by Mauser, Brno, Steyr, Sako, Fabrique Nationale, Husqvarna, Heym, Parker Hale, BSA, Zastava, Voere....I'm sure I've left some out. Military actions have been made by countries in South America, Central America, Persia and Asia. The bottom line is that everyone knows how to build a rifle properly, but market competition and lower consumer standards have forced these very same manufacturers to resort to "well crafted examples of piss-poor designs." I find it amusing when a manufacturer describes their creation as being "mauser type." I guess they figure every 2-lug turnbolt can trace it roots back to the Mauser brothers. They are more correct than they probably realize, since Mauser made push-feeds for 30 years prior to the model 1893. Sorry for the rant. | |||
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OK, let me throw a little gas on this fire . Dont the military use push feed (Remington 700s I believe) for snipers. Also, I believe LE uses a 700 rem for swat teams. These are life and death situations also. Now, dont beat up on me too bad here I"m just stirring the pot. Truth be told, I think crf are class acts... | |||
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Quote: Chuck: Hey, maybe I am wrong - it wouldn't be the first time. Tell me who has won any competitive shooting match lately using a CRF. What percent of winners use a CRF? Wimbleton used to be won with Mod70s, but when the PF Mod70 came out, they dominated, not the CRF. In any event, I have shot a lot of service rifle matches, and I can guarantee the AR15/M16 action, along with Savage, is accurate because of the design of the bolt, not because of the CRF/PF stuff. Anyway, post that winning list of over course the bolt guns using CRFs and I will stand corrected. I am pretty close to the gunsmith who builds most of the winning rifles for the VHM shootout, and they aren't CRFs... | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Re: Controlled Round Feed vs. Push Feed mystery
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