I don't get it. I was at the range yesterday to test loads for a .375, shoot my weekly 10 rds of .223 offhand at 100 and take my 20 .45 ACP shots at 25.

Two guys were shooting pistols at 10 yards, which is common; almost no one seems to shoot handguns past that distance. But then they got out their ARs and just pumped round after round into their target.

What is the attraction? Noise?

Maybe that is far as they can stay on the target. Your own answer is probably correct.

Because they can.

Possibly because they are training to defend a charge. It is more likely to get a good stopping shot on a dangerous game animal as they get close so the CNS may be hit accurately. Just a guess.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I don't get it. I was at the range yesterday to test loads for a .375, shoot my weekly 10 rds of .223 offhand at 100 and take my 20 .45 ACP shots at 25.

Two guys were shooting pistols at 10 yards, which is common; almost no one seems to shoot handguns past that distance. But then they got out their ARs and just pumped round after round into their target.

What is the attraction? Noise?

Practicing clearing rooms as swat wannabe

Cheap red dot optics.

No idea of the capabilities of the rifles.

Nothing I see in Florida on rifles, optics ect in gun shops or big box retail gives me any great confidence in the average long gun buyer.

Mike

thats the way to get all those 1/2 minute groups the internet is famous for

Well maybe they were trained that way. The Army trains young Soldiers to sight in their rifle at 25 meters. They train their Soldiers to sight in their belt feed machineguns at 10 meters. Then they go out and qualify with their rifles out to 300 meters and their machineguns out to 1200 meters. So the logic must be if I can hit the targets at 10 meters or even 25 meters they can hit at farther ranges.

Only good training is good.

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
thats the way to get all those 1/2 minute groups the internet is famous for

Or buy a blaser and shoot them at 300 yards

Mike

Probably because they find it fun... what else is the point of all the zombie crap?

Personally, I really hate trying to shoot longer distances on a public range. Even in the best of circumstances you have to deal with someone else. In competition at least you are all doing the same thing, but if I’m checking a load, having a guy next to me peppering me with hot brass doing a mag dump really reduces your ability to concentrate on shooting. I’d really love to have a 600+ yard set up of my own and not deal with others, but unless I win the lottery that is pretty unlikely.

Worst case is that it’s downright unsafe (I really hate someone fiddling with their rifle while I’m downrange changing a target or whatnot.)

That doesn’t include the chronographs and steel targets of mine that other folks can’t keep themselves from shooting and breaking... take a look at what a 5.56 steel penetrator round does to a rim fire silhouette target.... and good luck getting them to replace something they broke even when told not to use it...

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Probably because they find it fun... what else is the point of all the zombie crap?

Personally, I really hate trying to shoot longer distances on a public range. Even in the best of circumstances you have to deal with someone else. In competition at least you are all doing the same thing, but if I’m checking a load, having a guy next to me peppering me with hot brass doing a mag dump really reduces your ability to concentrate on shooting. I’d really love to have a 600+ yard set up of my own and not deal with others, but unless I win the lottery that is pretty unlikely.

Worst case is that it’s downright unsafe (I really hate someone fiddling with their rifle while I’m downrange changing a target or whatnot.)

That doesn’t include the chronographs and steel targets of mine that other folks can’t keep themselves from shooting and breaking... take a look at what a 5.56 steel penetrator round does to a rim fire silhouette target.... and good luck getting them to replace something they broke even when told not to use it...

That is why I live in AZ - go out in the desert and shoot as far as I want if the 500 yard range 10 min from my house doesn't cut it.

Got the well permit for our CO property this past week; hopefully in another year we will have a house off the grid where I can shoot off the back porch.

That would be a dream!

Hope it goes well, and you get plenty of enjoyment from your new place!

Please don't knock those "shooters". I have the pleasure of observing this several times, they don't pick up the brass. The last one couldn't wait to shoot 400+ rounds, then asked if I would like his brass, so my opinion change about this sterling fellow!

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Probably because they find it fun... what else is the point of all the zombie crap?

Personally, I really hate trying to shoot longer distances on a public range. Even in the best of circumstances you have to deal with someone else. In competition at least you are all doing the same thing, but if I’m checking a load, having a guy next to me peppering me with hot brass doing a mag dump really reduces your ability to concentrate on shooting. I’d really love to have a 600+ yard set up of my own and not deal with others, but unless I win the lottery that is pretty unlikely.

Worst case is that it’s downright unsafe (I really hate someone fiddling with their rifle while I’m downrange changing a target or whatnot.)

That doesn’t include the chronographs and steel targets of mine that other folks can’t keep themselves from shooting and breaking... take a look at what a 5.56 steel penetrator round does to a rim fire silhouette target.... and good luck getting them to replace something they broke even when told not to use it...

Shooting is fun for sure. Even if I am long pass shooting mud puddles, shooting down trees ect.



Having my own ranges/properties that allow me to shoot out to 700 yards is a great thing.

I even have property that I can drive around on and shoot from vehicles if I want and have done so. 2 miles of roads and lots of hills.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
That would be a dream!

Hope it goes well, and you get plenty of enjoyment from your new place!

Well when it is done you will have to come out and shoot!

Probably because it was too much trouble to move to another station or hang targets.

JMG

BH63

AnotherAZWriter I hope you get everything going. It is a dream of mine but probably won't happen. I like my toys too much. Be Well. Packy

Or, it's a much more likely gunfight distance than 700 yards? End of the hallway distance.

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
Probably because it was too much trouble to move to another station or hang targets.

JMG

BH63

Just emulating what they see on tv. If the protagonists are more than 20 feet apart, both won’t fit on the screen at the same time.

The first time I went shooting with a friend from New Jersey Year’s ago, he began by setting the targets at 10 feet. I asked him what the max range of the 7 1/2” .44-40 he was shooting was, and he told me “I don’t know- maybe 10-15 yards”. Had him happily scaring rocks and cans at 75-100 yards before the day was over.

When I have to shoot alongside the folks mentioned by the o.p., I usually take out a brick of firecrackers, light the fuse, drop it and walk away. The outcome is about the same- just as noisy and effective, with less chance of someone getting hurt.
Porosonik.

quote:

Originally posted by hacksawtom:
Please don't knock those "shooters". I have the pleasure of observing this several times, they don't pick up the brass. The last one couldn't wait to shoot 400+ rounds, then asked if I would like his brass, so my opinion change about this sterling fellow!

Yes- if only they would leave some .30/40, .43 Spanish or .25/20 brass behind. Something I could use....

Shooting pistols on the range at 10 yds? I have always shot at 25 yds. except when doing the CCL qualification. If you can pattern at 25 then you can do it at 10.Besides,range use IMO is for building up your skills,not seeing how easy you can make it.I have my own range on my property w/ concrete benches in 25 yd. increments to 100 yds. for rifle + pistol so no problem to practice at leisure + work up loads. When I did use the public range for the qualification I was informed that I was not allowed to police my own brass;the range gets it + resells it. O.K.,If that's how you feel,I'm using CCI blazers;go ahead + keep the "brass".

I really don't know what the attraction is either. To me the fun of shooting is hitting what you're aiming at. I built quite a few custom AR's for people in the past and they paid me quite a bit to use nothing but the best custom stainless cut-rifled barrel blanks from around here. I contoured, threaded, chambered the blanks, timed the barrel extension so the gas port was in the center of the groove, trued the receiver face and assembled with quality match triggers. They would shoot sub 1/2 MOA on a regular basis and I used that as a standard for the most part...many were surprisingly better.

When I would get reports back and I'd ask about the rifle's accuracy , they would be a little fuzzy on the precision... Basically they got it on paper and then machine-gunned a pile of rounds down range!! Hell of a way to treat a precision rifle!

I hear your pain. While shooting at a local range a young fellow showed up, got out of his car, and if he wasn't in so poor physical condition, I'd have thought him a Spec Ops. guy.

He had on cammies, a kevlar helmet, chest rig with ballistic plates. His M4 look alike complete with optics, laser, flash light, and one other item even he couldn't remember what it did.

He put up a target at 25 yards and started blasting away rapid fire for 30 rounds, then repeated it two more times. His target, no hits. He came down to me and asked for help. He didn't know he had to sight in the optic to the rifle. I convinced him to ditch his "battle gear, then explained sighting in a rifle. He was so impressed with my help, he offer me a job teaching him how to shoot. I directed him to several area shooting school. He was a nice guy just ignorant on marksmanship. As we parted we shook hands and I found a $100 bill. I gave it back and told him to put it toward his shooting school.

quote:

He put up a target at 25 yards and started blasting away rapid fire for 30 rounds, then repeated it two more times. His target, no hits. He came down to me and asked for help. He didn't know he had to sight in the optic to the rifle.

Not every body grew up in a hunting shooting family.

Got the well permit for our CO property this past week; hopefully in another year we will have a house off the grid where I can shoot off the back porch.[/QUOTE]

Good luck with the house,
Oh, I'll need your address or at least directions on how to get there for a visit and we shall do just that...shoot off your back porch. Sounds awesome, and I'm envious.

I've got to travel 11.5 minutes to my private 100, 600, 900 yard range but have to travel 40 minutes for the long stuff.

Zeke

Who cares as long as they are safe? It is a sport, diversion, recreation; nothing serious going on. Each shooter has his own criteria for "success" and "fun".
At least they are engaged in a shooting activity and contributing to the economy of it.
Let them do whatever they want, again, safely.
Hell, we get the Sheriff's department out at our private range and they do they same thing. And leave the brass.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Who cares as long as they are safe? It is a sport, diversion, recreation; nothing serious going on. Each shooter has his own criteria for "success" and "fun".
At least they are engaged in a shooting activity and contributing to the economy of it.
Let them do whatever they want, again, safely.
Hell, we get the Sheriff's department out at our private range and they do they same thing. And leave the brass.

At my local range its the Alaska State Troopers training. They leave all the brass, if a round hits the ground it is left. I bought a 40 s&w & a 9 mm after picking up a couple thousand free rounds

Maybe they will let me get the empties at the departmental range. I qualify each year, we pick up all the empties, and put them in barrels each year. There are about the same number of empties each time. Someone is mining empties. Think I will see about assisting them in getting rid of the empties. I don't care if they blast my tax money. I haven't gotten an honest raise since 1996. I just as well get a benefit. The only corrections people in the US lower paid than Misery is Arkansas. Maybe they should enlist the help of the Clinton Foundation? Be Well, Packy

I'm fortunate as our club range is divided up into several different areas and one allows you to do all the Rambo shit you want but you are separated by a high berm on each side. I hear what sounds like a small war quite often over there. None of that is allowed on the designated rifle or pistol ranges. Even the AR shooters are developing loads and shooting for groups. Nice!

To answer John's question I think folks often just like to rip off a few to hear the bang-bang. I've seen folks come to a range and blast off two boxes of ammo shooting puddles.

Mark

Well I don't know why these guys shoot their AR's at short ranges, other than the fact that that is what they see on TV and in the movies. I CAN answer the question "why shoot rifles at short ranges".
It used to be that EVERY decent rifle range had a 1000 inch range for full bore rifles. This allowed one to zero their rifles at short range, without needing someone in the butts, to pull targets down, place the "spotter" and then pull the target back up again. A royal pain ESPECIALLY IF ONE WAS NOT EVEN ON THE PAPER!
A 1000 inch range had special 1000 inch targets that provided the same sight picture as at 250 yards (or so, depending on the rifle). Thus one could zero the rifle AND work on one's technique so that you could shoot a 1" group say, prone (no bench, rest etc. etc). Then moving to the longer range (250 say) one would at least be on the paper and fully zero the rifle with minimum fuss.
So, 400 WHELEN, that, I suspect, is why you observed what you did! The bullet trajectory crosses the line of sight TWICE, once while rising and then when "falling".
BTW, 1000 inches is roughly 27 yards or 25.4 meters!!!
Hope this helps, Peter

Possibly a match or practice for 3-gun competition.

Don't know why you shouldn't practice close with a rifle. The purpose of your handgun is to get to your rifle. Not vice-versa.

Zeroing irons is close, as mentioned. I take inexperienced MG shooters into the handgun pits for the sake of the high berms. 10 yds is plenty for kids, and usually best to start with 3 or 5 in the mag.

Because it's fun.

1000 inches? That's about 27 3/4 yards.
That's ok to get on paper I guess. Then move out to longer ranges to check your sight settings.
Leo

There have been several documented uses of MSR's in self defense.

The distances that they were used at have been inside homes or when used out side under 50 yards.

Even in police work the ranges that patrol rifles are used are normally under a 100 yards most a lot closer.

So practicing at closer ranges makes sense.

I see most AR shooters shooting cheap bulk ammo. They buy a lot and shoot at a B27 target. Some shoot at 100 but most shoot at 25-50 and some of those go to 10 yds. Mabey they are practicing for their gang. Perhaps just to defend the homestead. It's puzzling.

Any semi auto is going to promote wasting ammo. It's just that way. I have an AR and I shoot at sight in targets at 100 then go to 200. Sometimes take it out to 800 or so on steel but I handload and have no interest in just making noise.

I would say that they might be doing close quarter drills - but I balance those with 25-100yd and 100-300yd sessions as well for the AR/AK. Ok, well AK more like 200. But like the OP said, I see many more (pistol and carbine) that just do mag dumps at 10 yards.

Considering that most in home encounters will happen within 3 to 20 feet, long guns are a little cumbersome as a home defense weapon. Furthermore, with a long barrel, you risk someone easily deflecting the muzzle in a close encounter. Therefore, trying to clear a room with a long gun takes practice. And then there is the issue of shooting a "suspect" outside of your home/property. So dropping someone at 50 yards is going to be difficult to explain.

Not a direct comparison at all, but as a point of interest, most police shootings take place within three feet.

I realize there are a lot of folks touting AR's for home defense, but to me, there are much better choices available. Folks are getting a little carried away with the whole tactical, urban warfare storyline. Now if I lived in Chicago, hell yes.

I work part-time at our county shooting range. It puzzles me to see these guys with ARs take a bench on our 200-yard range with target holders at 25, 50, 100 and 200 yards and spend an hour or two shooting at their target at 25 or 50 yards. They often have an optic mounted. When they are finished and signing out, I like to ask them how their rifles shot. More often than not they say they were having trouble with their sights and will come back and try some more. And yes, they usually leave their brass behind, even though we ask them to police it up. I often end up cleaning up after them. We haul the brass to El Paso for scrap.

Bill, I hate to say this out loud but there are a lot of shooters out there that are really hurting the cause by acting just like you are saying + thus giving the antis more "proof" that all of us are irresponsible.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Probably because they find it fun... what else is the point of all the zombie crap?

Personally, I really hate trying to shoot longer distances on a public range. Even in the best of circumstances you have to deal with someone else. In competition at least you are all doing the same thing, but if I’m checking a load, having a guy next to me peppering me with hot brass doing a mag dump really reduces your ability to concentrate on shooting. I’d really love to have a 600+ yard set up of my own and not deal with others, but unless I win the lottery that is pretty unlikely.

Worst case is that it’s downright unsafe (I really hate someone fiddling with their rifle while I’m downrange changing a target or whatnot.)

That doesn’t include the chronographs and steel targets of mine that other folks can’t keep themselves from shooting and breaking... take a look at what a 5.56 steel penetrator round does to a rim fire silhouette target.... and good luck getting them to replace something they broke even when told not to use it...

That is why I live in AZ - go out in the desert and shoot as far as I want if the 500 yard range 10 min from my house doesn't cut it.

Got the well permit for our CO property this past week; hopefully in another year we will have a house off the grid where I can shoot off the back porch.

Sure. It takes only 1/10 gallon of gasoline to get there and 1 gallon of water per person to survive on that range in the summer

Seriously it is very nice place and shooting range. I am very happy John took me there. Please say hello to your wife.

Jiri

quote:

Originally posted by hacksawtom:
Please don't knock those "shooters". I have the pleasure of observing this several times, they don't pick up the brass. The last one couldn't wait to shoot 400+ rounds, then asked if I would like his brass, so my opinion change about this sterling fellow!

Was this at the Clark County range?

I was there a few years ago on the 200 yard range. There was a guy with a 16" AR firing away at 25 yards. Hot steel cases everywhere. He had quite the "Pattern" going and I would get slapped in the face from the muzzle blast. I waited until his mag was empty to shoot my "group".

He had a man size target and was edge to edge. Apparently the blast from his gun bothered him too.