I know nothing about owning Full auto firearms except that I understood the GCA of 1968 created the requirement to have a stamp and heavy back ground check to purchase. When I was told about this decades ago there was approx a $250.00 charge. I have heard people say this has been changed and there is no such thing anymore. Frankly I don't care either way. I'm just wondering if I'm hearing B.S.
Thanks,

The requirement for a transfer tax (stamp) came back in the '20s with the Federal Firearms act. The GCA of '68 only updated and added to it. The cost is $200 for the transfer stamp plus what the local angencies may charge for finger printing and processing (signing) the form. It does involve a back ground check. Also not all states allow automatic weapons so you have to deal with that also depending on where you live.

Larry Gibson

Actual it was the firearms control act of 1934 required a tax on full autos ahort barreled rifles and shot guns, surpressors ect.

200 dollar tax some things like shot pistols are a 5 dollar tax.

finger prints backgroung check letter from local law enforcement ect.

In May 1986 the registry of new automatic weapons was closed except to dealers and the government, so private customers are limited to pre 86 "transferable" weapons. Imported weapons from 68-86 are available only to dealers and government but the dealer can keep them when he retires.

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
In May 1986 the registry of new automatic weapons was closed except to dealers and the government, so private customers are limited to pre 86 "transferable" weapons. Imported weapons from 68-86 are available only to dealers and government but the dealer can keep them when he retires.

As LE in NY I can only "use" issued dept Full Auto/Burst...but if I were in PA or ME (only ones I knoe locally for sure) and non-LE I could get the appropriate tax stamp under NFA and own a SBR or a MG....and they can be new manufacturer rifles...complete or registered to the receiver only.

I could be wrong, but I also believe once you say get a tax stamp for a lower, say 14" barrel w 3 round burst, you cannot change the barrel length without an additional tax stamp.

in minnesota we are limited to curio & relics only, which is basically wwII and earlier items. and silencers are not allowed

quote:

Originally posted by BISCUT:

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
In May 1986 the registry of new automatic weapons was closed except to dealers and the government, so private customers are limited to pre 86 "transferable" weapons. Imported weapons from 68-86 are available only to dealers and government but the dealer can keep them when he retires.

As LE in NY I can only "use" issued dept Full Auto/Burst...but if I were in PA or ME (only ones I knoe locally for sure) and non-LE I could get the appropriate tax stamp under NFA and own a SBR or a MG....and they can be new manufacturer rifles...complete or registered to the receiver only.

I could be wrong, but I also believe once you say get a tax stamp for a lower, say 14" barrel w 3 round burst, you cannot change the barrel length without an additional tax stamp.

You can get new SBRs but a MG must still have been registered before May 1986. You don't have to get a new stamp for different barrel lengths, you can list multiple barrel lengths on the Form 4, or list the shortest barrel you intend to use. If you change your mind you can send a letter to the NFA branch and have the Registry amended.

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:


You can get new SBRs but a MG must still have been registered before May 1986. You don't have to get a new stamp for different barrel lengths, you can list multiple barrel lengths on the Form 4, or list the shortest barrel you intend to use. If you change your mind you can send a letter to the NFA branch and have the Registry amended.

Correct. For the info of those thinking about getting an MG, you can also change your address to another state without having to get a new tax stamp. You don't even have to write BATFE. You can do the address change by phone, as I did.

You do, of course, have to be moving to a state that also allows you to have MGs, so you can't buy and stamp one in AZ or OR and move to CA with it. Unless you'd like a room without a view, in the Crowbar Hotel...

To take that a step farther, if you set up an NFA trust you can move the weapon around without a change of address as long as the address of the trust and trustee remains the same. That does NOT make it legal in a state that bans them, it just reduces the paperwork.

But that won't mean the local LEO will know the fine points of the law, either. Very few folks outside the genre are familiar with NFA LLCs or NFA trusts.

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
In May 1986 the registry of new automatic weapons was closed except to dealers and the government, so private customers are limited to pre 86 "transferable" weapons. Imported weapons from 68-86 are available only to dealers and government but the dealer can keep them when he retires.

Ryan is correct, but the whole truth is, newer MGs are even more restricted than that. Among the post-'86 guns, only "sales samples" can be transfered to the dealer personally after his Class III business closes.

Because Class III dealers were buying "sales samples" of new MGs, then "retiring" (giving up their dealer's license) so the new "samples" would end up being registered to them as individuals, BATFE went a step or so farther with the regs.

Now, to get a new MG as a sales sample, a Class III dealer must have a letter from the local LEO shop on LE letterhead and signed by the head or designated purchasing officer of that local agency, stating that the agency is considering buying that make and model AND that it wants that specific dealer to be able to demo it to the LE agency before purchase.

Even there, if the dealer gets such a sales sample, it is NOT re-saleable to some other private individual after his/her "retirement", though it CAN be inherited upon the former dealer's death.

So, for most private parties, post '86 MG legal ownership just ain't gonna happen.

There are always exceptions if one has enough political pull and the right "business relationships" with government, but they are about like expecting to win the lottery. NOT guaranteed.

J&G has a select-fire M-16 for sale now. $10,750 plus the paper trail and fedgoob fees.

Rich

To be honest a full auto rifle is kinda fun to play with, but the practical use of one is pretty much non-existent. I've also considered it, but with the current cost of ammo, seems like a bad idea. I think even the military pretty much uses full auto (in full size rifles at least) for suppressive fire only and discourages it otherwise for the same reasons. You can try to buy a legal pre 1986 lightning link or drop in auto sear. I would however, like to have a shorter barreled rifle with a suppressor, a 7.62x39 with a suppressor would be great for hogs, or a 5.56 for coyotes.

jstevens,

Agreed, there are practical uses for SBRs and suppressors but full autos are primary for fun and investment.

quote:

Full autos are primary for fun and investment.

"Practical" uses aside, I can attest they are indeed fun! This Bridgeport '28 is a lot more enjoyable that a stock or bond, and probably not any more risky these days.

Besides, if I ever decide to get into the bootlegging business I'm all set. I just need to find an appropriate fedora and get measured for pinstripes.

Bob

It's a pretty straight forward process to get a SBR license. I took a Kahr Thompson Pistol and added a butstock (required drilling and tapping 2 holes in the bottom of the reciever) and purchasing a buttstock from Kahr. I had to have the permit before I could start the process but had to have the reciever as the serial number was required on the permit. Just could not drill the holes and tap till I got the tax stamp.Took approximately 4 months and I made a paperwork mistake and the form had to be ammended. The people with the licensing agency were nothing but helpful. However it is not a simple process to move the SBR around in travel. Specific permission has to be given by ATF to move out of state and if moved they have to have specific places and dates pertainiing to the travel itenerary, how long it will be at the remote location,when and by what route will you return home. You have to decide if it is worth the effort. It is also not an easy thing to dispose of if you wish to sell it. There are not that many class 3 dealers around.

Yes, you can have 2 barrel lengths on one stamp, I have an M16 with a 14 & 18" barrel.

When I bought mine, I was told you'll shoot em once, then put em up. Kinda true, I think I've had them out 2 maybe 3 times. Always wanted to do the Arnold thing and shjoot my Uzi with my rt hand and my Mac 10 with my left- still haven't done that after a dozen years.

The most important thing is actually the paperwork. That must be with you at all times and you cannot let the weapon out of your possesion, unless with a Class 3 smith/dealer. Can't just drop it off at the local gunshop to put on a sight, etc. I've got 3 sets of copies in my safe next to my weapons.

And yes, thy are designed for suppressive fire, etc.......I had 3 guys play with mine trying to hit a milk jug at 20 yards..........coulda used a Ming vase- thay all missed.

Finally, yeah they are a decent investment. Unlike most custom guns which depreciate once they leave the gunsmith even if unshoot, Class 3 weapons just seem to go up in value.



PS They're fun and all, but really for me it's the suppressor that's a more legitimate Class 3 item. Around here a lotta guys have their ARs all tricked up with Gen 3/4 night scopes and suppressed <- we have a hog problem.

Every one that missed their chance to carry in the military should have one for a week, and have to buy their own ammunition. That cures most people of the desire to own one...

I carried an M-60 for 4 years.
I've never wanted one since.

Cheers, John

walnut, there is a separate forum on this website for full auto and suppressors. There is information on there about procedures for getting the tax stamp.
Peter.
PS. The biggest problem you may have (other than getting the Tax Stamp in Cleveland) is finding a place to shoot your full auto. Not many ranges allow this.

walnut, your are in Ohio? If so you are lucky you have no state issued limitations. You need only abide by Federal law. You must fill out the appropriate paperwork and pay a $200 excise tax, just as it has been since 1934.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Every one that missed their chance to carry in the military should have one for a week, and have to buy their own ammunition. That cures most people of the desire to own one...

I'd gladly have another Sterling - 9mm parabellum is still reasonably priced & it IS a lot of fun to shoot.

Buzz guns are fun ... but with the GCA '86 restrictions on new manufactured weapons into the pool of those available to civilians, prices have gotten beyond what most of us are willing to invest now.

Glad I got those toys between 1986 and 1990. Wish I'd bought more then.

I'd have to agree that suppressors are more fundamentally useful and that the combination of a suppressor and NV changes the pig hunting game.

Clint Smith (of Thunder Ranch) famously remarked that all full-auto does is turn money into noise.

quote:

Originally posted by mauser93:
Clint Smith (of Thunder Ranch) famously remarked that all full-auto does is turn money into noise.

If it doesn't have a belt that is largely true.