My bow kill experience is minimal, I have a javelina, caribou, and cow elk, all broadside lung pass through shots. My question mainly pertains to white tails as that is all I get to hunt now (until I move back west). How many of you have seen or witnessed arrows break a shoulder, or a shoulder stop an arrow. I guess this is mostly for curiosity sake, but seems like a scenario that could easily occur with a mildly misplaced arrow or a not quite perfect broadside angle.

The shoulder and leg bones do not seem to hinder penetration with a strong bow and heavy arrows. The culprit seems to be the shoulder blade itself. It is not thick and would seem to be easy to shoot through. However it is very flexible and floating and can absorb shock. I also get the impression that it acts like a Chinese finger puzzle and just grabs the shaft or head and won't let go.
I have shot leg bones and the big ball joints in half but a hit in the blade just stops an arrow sometimes. It takes a lot of power and weight to get through to the lungs in that type of hit.
I have even cut the front leg off a deer after going through the chest first (offside leg.)
The best blade for a shoulder hit is a two blade or a good cut on entry blade. I never shoot for the shoulder but things happen!

I've never seen a shoulder stop an arrow, nor a broken shoulder caused by an arrow.

Personally, I avoid the quartering-toward and other angles that leave the shoulder in the way. Quartering away and broadside shots are usually presented if one waits and/or sets up in the proper location.

As a treestand hunter, the angles are different, but although I avoid the shoulder I will add that I do aim for the OPPOSITE elbow when picking an aiming point on a broadside or quartering away deer.

PS - don't forget to add turkeys to your list of huntable quarry!

Shot a cow elk at about 35 yards. Right into the shoulder 600 grain arrow with 125 grain muzzy off of 85 lb bowtech samson. Shoots 290 fps stoped cold by that dawm shoulder. Arrow penetrated 3 1/2 inches and fell out. This set up will go shoulder to shoulder on 300+ lbs hogs and any deer. No joy on elk shoulders. My dumba"" just made a bad shot.

I can't imagine anything getting through an elks shoulder but I was almost expecting to hear that "sure you can shoot through a white tail does shoulder no problem, a buck maybe not" kind of answer(not that I would ever do it intentionally, just theorizing and I know there is a ton of experience with this kind of thing out there.) Sounds so far that sometimes it may go through and sometimes not.

I don't know anybody that recommends shoulder shots on anything with a bow. But they do happen.

I personally think a cut-on-contact 5 degree tapered swaged steel broadhead (think Grizzly) of 600 grains total arrow weight at 270 fps would actually be able to penetrate an elk's shoulder and several inches into the chest. I still would not recommend intentionally trying the shot.

But it's nice to have enough penetration to ensure getting to the vitals in deer.

We have bucks around here that regularly exceed 240 pounds live weight - a lot bigger than most Texas or South Carolina deer that I have hunted most.

I have never shot a front side shoulder but I have hit offside shoulders a couple of times and have never failed to get a pass thru. I am shooting a 310 gr arrow 321 fps. mathews lx. @ 62 lbs. last year I shot a nice 9 pt that field dressed at 152#. I was in a treestand but he was up hill from me and I hit him a little high. I broke the shoulder blade off of the shoulder bone and got a complete pass thru. I have never shot one in the rump so I cant speak on shooting thru a ball joint.

I took a marginal shot on a Whitetail Buck once, and I hit the shoulder with virtually no penetration. The bow was supposed to be set at over 60 lbs., shooting a 125 Gr. tip in a 2117. Since then I've shot through the shoulder blade of a WT, and through the shoulder of other animals with no problems. I still have that bow, and it actually maxes out at 52#, so I think I just didn't have enough power for penetration.

Naja,

A Whitetail Shoulder will stop an arrow like a brick wall more times than not. It's a very low percentage shot and should be avoided.

I've personally lost 3 deer due to shoulder impacts. I'm talking slaming deer in the shoulder! Sounds like a boat paddle slapped up-side a tree "CRACK!" and the arrow just stopped. One w/ a 80lb Compound and 2315 aluminum arrow, One w/ a heavy 500 grain carbon at 250 fps, and One w/ a 290 fps 385+- grain carbon. All of them stopped at impact and the deer ran off like nothing happened.

Killed one of those deer later w/ a rifle and he had a golf ball sized knot on his shoulder at the base of the blade where it thickens, he was in good shape and grunting close to his scrape when I slammed him w/ a 270 (Same place I shot him w/ a bow a month earlier).

I have one buddy that shot one in the shoulder w/ an 80# bow, Pretty sure an aluminum, and a 100 grn Muzzy, tell me that wont penetrate!

Also had a buddy just two weeks ago shoot a doe w/ a 30" carbon and 125 grain fixed blade, arrow barely went in her and she "Got out of Dodge."

I've seen it w/ my own eyes and heard it from trusted friends enough to know thaty it's a bad idea even on whitetails regardless of your set-up. I'm not saying that you can not penetrate through a shoulder but, you probably will not more times than you do.

I think bfr has got it right, I believe it has alot to do w/ the shoulder being able to absorb the impact.

Guys, a thought just popped into my head. If a fella wanted to do some experimenting w/ this concept he could take a 3"X3" square of 1/2" pine plywood and attach it w/ rubber bands to foam (I'm talking the old couch cushion spoungey type) and shoot different weight arrows and different heads into it. I bet that give you a pretty good idea of how much penetration you'd get on a good shoulder impact.

Good Luck

Reloader

quote:

If a fella wanted to do some experimenting w/ this concept he could take a 3"X3" square of 1/2" pine plywood and attach it w/ rubber bands to foam (I'm talking the old couch cushion spoungey type) and shoot different weight arrows and different heads into it. I bet that give you a pretty good idea of how much penetration you'd get on a good shoulder impact.

Reloader, How about we just take a deer shoulder quarter to the range and shoot the real thing? I cut the shoulders up for stew and burger anyway. It's not often a fella gets to shoot at a deer with an orange target dot on its shoulder... Good hunting! MB

quote:

Reloader, How about we just take a deer shoulder quarter to the range and shoot the real thing? I cut the shoulders up for stew and burger anyway. It's not often a fella gets to shoot at a deer with an orange target dot on its shoulder... Good hunting! MB

That would work too. Attach it too a hanging sack of hay or something that has some give to it and get after it. The only problem is trying to hit the perfect spot on the blade to conclude that one head and arrow is better than another would be very tough. If you hit the top of the blade w/ one arrow, the center w/ another, and the thick base w/ another, it just doesn't seem you'd get accurate data. That's why I had suggested the plyboard because it would even the data spread so to speak. If you could hit those shoulders in the same spot it give you a good example, I'm not quite that good w/ my bow.


Reloader

I usually shoot at the opposite shoulder for anything quartering away, but if they are quartering toward me and it's "now or never", they get shot right through the shoulder. On some broadside shots, I have shot through both shoulders. I shoot 75-80 pounds with carbon arrows and Steelhead 100's. I've had probably 30+ shoulder hits and never has the arrow not passed completely through. My dad shot one a couple weeks ago with his same equipment, but at 60 pounds and a lighter arrow, and he had the same thing - complete passthrough.

The only time I've had non-passthroughs is when hit somewhere in the spine or neck.

Good hunting.

There is obviously still some misinformation about the bone structure of most animals, mainly deer here of course. You are talking like the shoulder and the shoulder BLADE are the same thing and they aren't. The shoulder blade isn't even where most people think it is, it dosn't cover the vitals AT ALL on a broadside deer from ground level. From the "elbow" the upper leg bone goes up and forward at about a 45 degree angle, then the shoulder blade angles up and back at about the same angle. If you are shooting on the same level as the deer and hit the shoulder blade, you were to high anyway. The shoulder MUSCLE won't stop any arrow adequate for deer. If you are using the right arrows and heads the shoulder blade won't stop them either, its not very thick, but you shouldn't be worried about hitting it, IF you wait for the right shot.

quote:

There is obviously still some misinformation about the bone structure of most animals, mainly deer here of course. You are talking like the shoulder and the shoulder BLADE are the same thing and they aren't. The shoulder blade isn't even where most people think it is, it dosn't cover the vitals AT ALL on a broadside deer from ground level. From the "elbow" the upper leg bone goes up and forward at about a 45 degree angle, then the shoulder blade angles up and back at about the same angle. If you are shooting on the same level as the deer and hit the shoulder blade, you were to high anyway. The shoulder MUSCLE won't stop any arrow adequate for deer. If you are using the right arrows and heads the shoulder blade won't stop them either, its not very thick, but you shouldn't be worried about hitting it, IF you wait for the right shot.

Apply that same explanation to a deer at 5-10 yards when you are 25-30 feet in the tree and you see a difference as well as a deer that is from 10-15, 15-20, etc etc.......

Reloader

Notice how the Blade comes to a point and thickens. Also notice how at steep angles and slight quarters the blade and joint are very much in the way of the vitals. I admit it's a terrible shot to try but, it's hunting and things don't always go as planned. That type of shot should be passed on. Sadly it took me about 3 lost deer to burn that into my head.

Reloader

Well, I guess I jinxed myself by my earlier thread where I said I had never had an incomplete passthrough on a shoulder.

Yesterday afternoon, I grunted in a nice 8 pointer, and at 6 yards angling at me, I put a Rocket Steelhead directly into the top/front part of the shoulder and it exited about 5 inches behind the other shoulder.

The arrow, however didn't go all the way through to the ground and the deer broke my arrow and I lost my broadhead somewhere in the 50 yards or so that he ran.

I know that I could have shot a little further back and killed him just as well, but since I'm hunting a grown up clearcut I want to always hit both lungs to keep my tracking to a minumum.

By the way, I'm hunting in north TN. My dad killed a really nice 8 point the day before by calling him in with a grunt call. I put that deer's tarsal glands on a log 10 yards in front of me and grunted several times. My deer came sneaking across about 50 yards away and turned to come in on the downwind side of the glands. He was staring right the glands like a bird dog pointing a bird when I shot him.

I love it when a plan comes togather.

Steve,

Exactly what bones did you hit with this shot?

To be exact, what I mean when I say "pass through the shoulder" I am talking the shoulder blade.

My arrows either break the leg bones and pass through or skid around them and pass through.

I have had the near side shoulder blade stop a mechanical broadhead, but not a fixed blade broadhead on a 500+ grain arrow.

I have had "far side" leg bones and shoulder blades routinely stop 500 grain arrows with 125 grain Muzzies - but that does not bother me at all.

Don_G'

I have not butchered the shoulder and won't because I gave the deer to a guy at work. All I can tell you is that I hit it high and forward in the biggest part of the shoulder.

I'll go back today and see if I can find my broadhead. It should be right there. At $8 each, it's worth looking.

You mentioned Muzzy and less penetration with mechanicals. All mechanicals are not equal. I've tried them all and the Steelhead is by far the best (penetration and durability). This opinion is based on over 50 deer without one failure....and I have yet to bend the body of the head because it's steel. If you will try some, you'll leave those Muzzies at home.

Here we go