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Poll - What "Shaft Material" do you prefer?
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I ran the "Find" feature and located some rather Dated threads concerning which Shaft Material people prefer.

Back in the late `70s, I was using Bear Aluminum Shafts which were made for Bear by Shakespear. They did fine for me then and if I still had them, they "might" do just as well today.

I've read a bit and hear people mention about Carbon Shafts "Exploding" for various reasons. Even saw a special Glove for wearing on your Bow Hand to Reduce the Damage if one does come apart. However, it DID NOT say it would totally prevent Hand Mangling.

Perhaps my old memory is just being selective, or perhaps I just never knew enough about Aluminum Shafts, but I DO NOT remember hearing of people getting Maimed in the Bow Hand by an Aluminum Shaft self-destructing.

If you all have any "Words of Wisdom!", or "First-hand experience" with Arrows self destructing, I'd sure appreciate a Lesson about it. tu2

Question:
What type of Shaft Material do you prefer to use?

Choices:
1. Aluminum.
2. Carbon.
3. Composite(Carbon/Aluminum).
4. Fiberglass.
5. Wood.
6. Other.

 
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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The old pulruded carbon shafts were known to destruct a bit but the new stuff is pretty bomb proof. Alumnums are probably the safest of all but they sure don't penetrate as well as carbon. Aluminums are nice to pull out of the target butt. I shoot carbons the most just because it's what I use, I'm not against shooting aluminum and still buy them all up if I find the right spine.
 
Posts: 2763 | Registered: 11 March 2004Reply With Quote
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On game there is no discernable difference in aluminum and carbon but today’s carbon is super tough....and worth the money. However the carbon shafts are lighter in weight for spline than the aluminum shafts. I shoot both and like carbon better.


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Posts: 7361 | Location: South East Missouri | Registered: 23 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Aluminum only for me for safety reasons/durability/accuracy,,,i have shot them all and they all have shattered/caused problems/warped ...except easton aluminum....
 
Posts: 3608 | Location: USA | Registered: 08 September 2004Reply With Quote
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What shafts have shattered or warped....wood?


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Posts: 7361 | Location: South East Missouri | Registered: 23 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Way back when carbon arrows first came on the scene, there were issues with them. They had a small diameter which caused problems. They'd shatter easily and I didn't think they had enough spin on the shaft to make good holes through an animal. So I stayed with aluminum arrows for a long time. And they did a good job, delivering a broadhead with sufficient spin to tear a nice hole and they were usually good for two or more animals before they bent.

But then I tried carbon arrows and I haven't looked back. I still have 10 of the original 12 arrows I got almost five years ago. In that time I've killed a wild boar, a corsican ram, a Jacob's ram, five or six whitetail deer, an elk, a bison and an asian water buffalo, all with the same arrows. One I lost and another broke when the wild boar rolled on the arrow that was stuck in the off shoulder.

I like carbons now, shooting arrows made by Forge Archery Company.
 
Posts: 816 | Location: Whitlock, TN | Registered: 23 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Carbon for the last 10 years - never had a problem. They will last forever - aluminum will eventually bend after shots into animals, through brush/trees, etc. I switched from aluminum & bought my first 2 dozen for a then new PSE & a trip to Africa in 2001. Sold 22 along with the bow in 2008 after killing 6 plains game critters & 10 or 11 whitetails. Only bought a dozen with my Mathews in '08, still have 11, so in 10 years, I'm down 3 arrows. One splintered up a bit after shoooting into rock, & 2 were lost.
 
Posts: 171 | Location: East Tennessee | Registered: 13 December 2008Reply With Quote
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Aluminum here. Tried carbons and never could get them to group so I stayed with the old tried and true XX75. If it ain't broke, dont fix it...


30+ years experience tells me that perfection hit at .264. Others are adequate but anything before or after is wishful thinking.
 
Posts: 854 | Location: Atlanta, GA | Registered: 20 December 2007Reply With Quote
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Carbon.

Beaman or Gold Tip
 
Posts: 3427 | Registered: 05 August 2008Reply With Quote
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Been using woodies for over 50 years, still work good for my style of hunting. It is harder tho, to find decent shafts. I have a large stash of shafts from the '50's and '60's that should last 'till I'm done flinging arrows.

rudyc


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Posts: 319 | Location: S E Wisconsin | Registered: 15 December 2004Reply With Quote
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I bought my first bow last year (Elite Z28)and have only used carbon. They shoot well and I have 2 dozen, so I won't be getting anything different anytime soon. Unless I loose em shame
 
Posts: 969 | Registered: 13 October 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by rudyc:
Been using woodies for over 50 years, still work good for my style of hunting. It is harder tho, to find decent shafts. I have a large stash of shafts from the '50's and '60's that should last 'till I'm done flinging arrows.

rudyc


I have a few thousand Port Orford cedar shafts left over from when Wifey & I made wood arrows. (Quality Crafted Arrow Wood)

They are mostly in the 65# up spine range but there are probably some that are not so stiff in there..

Anyone interested can PM me.


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Posts: 2440 | Location: Northern New York, WAY NORTH | Registered: 04 March 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by ted thorn:
On game there is no discernable difference in aluminum and carbon but today’s carbon is super tough....and worth the money. However the carbon shafts are lighter in weight for spline than the aluminum shafts. I shoot both and like carbon better.


The proper term is spine, not spline.


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Posts: 2440 | Location: Northern New York, WAY NORTH | Registered: 04 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Wood is the most forgiving & is much quieter than aluminum.

When shooting w/fingers "off the shelf" wood tends to be more acurate than the synthetic alternatives due to the forgiveness.

For those reasons it is a better choice for traditional bows used for hunting.


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Posts: 2440 | Location: Northern New York, WAY NORTH | Registered: 04 March 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
quote:
Originally posted by ted thorn:
On game there is no discernable difference in aluminum and carbon but today’s carbon is super tough....and worth the money. However the carbon shafts are lighter in weight for spline than the aluminum shafts. I shoot both and like carbon better.



The proper term is spine, not spline.



Then please excuse me. HC it is sline not spine. Sorry.


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Posts: 7361 | Location: South East Missouri | Registered: 23 November 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by ted thorn:
quote:
Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
quote:
Originally posted by ted thorn:
On game there is no discernable difference in aluminum and carbon but today’s carbon is super tough....and worth the money. However the carbon shafts are lighter in weight for spline than the aluminum shafts. I shoot both and like carbon better.
The proper term is spine, not spline.
Then please excuse me. HC it is sline not spine. Sorry.
Big Grin

That is one Term I understand irregardless how it is spellllled. I'll bet you all don't even remember when "Ramblers" had Tapered Splined Axle Shafts. old
-----

I'm a bit surprised at the diversity shown in the Poll. Obviously lots of ways to skin-the-cat that work well. I kind of thought Rudy would select "Wood" but had no idea Wildcat Junkie made Wooden Arrows. Amazing!
-----

Anybody ever heard of "Lubing or Waxing" an Arrow Shaft? I spotted something on-line that they "Claim" is to make it easier to Remove an Arrow from a Target. bewildered

Ran it through the Onboard Computer and it figured if it made an Arrow easier to Remove, that it would also make it easier for it to go in - meaning deeper into the Target. Of course that is all speculation(Wild Guess) and would appreciate any of your all's thoughts on it???
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Hot Core:
quote:
Originally posted by ted thorn:
quote:
Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
quote:
Originally posted by ted thorn:
On game there is no discernable difference in aluminum and carbon but today’s carbon is super tough....and worth the money. However the carbon shafts are lighter in weight for spline than the aluminum shafts. I shoot both and like carbon better.
The proper term is spine, not spline.
Then please excuse me. HC it is sline not spine. Sorry.
Big Grin

That is one Term I understand irregardless how it is spellllled. I'll bet you all don't even remember when "Ramblers" had Tapered Splined Axle Shafts. old
-----

I'm a bit surprised at the diversity shown in the Poll. Obviously lots of ways to skin-the-cat that work well. I kind of thought Rudy would select "Wood" but had no idea Wildcat Junkie made Wooden Arrows. Amazing!
-----

Anybody ever heard of "Lubing or Waxing" an Arrow Shaft? I spotted something on-line that they "Claim" is to make it easier to Remove an Arrow from a Target. bewildered

Ran it through the Onboard Computer and it figured if it made an Arrow easier to Remove, that it would also make it easier for it to go in - meaning deeper into the Target. Of course that is all speculation(Wild Guess) and would appreciate any of your all's thoughts on it???


My wife & I made an average of 350 dozen Port Orford cedar arrow a year back in the mid/late '90s.

All were hand SPINED + OR - 2# & weight matched + OR - 5 grains.

We bought components in bulk, directly from the manufacturer to keep cost down. We sold raw arrow building components to keep volume up.

To be honest, although the finished arrows were the "draw" we made the most money selling components. The last year we were in business, we purchased 13,000 port orford cedar shafts from Rose City.

As far as arrow wax to ease removal from targets?

If one used the Bohning lacquers on the "foot" of the shaft, the friction on penetration into ethafoam 3-D targets would "weld" the foam onto the arrow shaft. That would make pulling the arrow out of the target very, very difficult.

We tried wax, pledge worked pretty well, but the problem W/wax was that it would not last for more than a few impacts. One would have to re-aply wax several times throughout a shooting session.

We used Bohning finishing lacquers because of the compatabilty W/"Fletch-Tite" cement. The way we finally solved the foam "welding" problem was to dip the fletch end only in the appropriate lacquers, fletch & crest the arrow, then dip from the foot end all the way up & over the cresting W/quick drying satin polyeurethane. This would eliminate "welding" as well as the "wiping" of the crest as the arrow passed over the shelf.

BTW: SPINE is a term used to describe the "BACKBONE" of the arrow.

We made our arrows in 5 dozen lots. Each dozen was numbered 1 through 5 W/the date. This became a seriel # of sorts. On the build sheets I would cataloque the SPINE & raw shaft weight as well as the stain, dip color, crest, shape & color of the fletch. In this way, when a cutomer ordered another dozen arrows, we could reproduce the arrows as far as appearance, but most importantly, we could produce an arrow that would shoot to the same POI as the last dozen.

BTW: The 1000gr Lyman digital scale we purchased to weight match arrow shafts back in 1994 is still being put to use weighing powder charges for reloading CF rifle "suppositories".


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Posts: 2440 | Location: Northern New York, WAY NORTH | Registered: 04 March 2001Reply With Quote
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I put aluminum but have been using graphite arrows lately. I do like the Gold tips.


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Posts: 9823 | Location: Montana | Registered: 25 June 2001Reply With Quote
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To those who voted Carbon: why does every carbon fiber shaft sold in the US have this stenciled/screened on the shaft?

"SEE WARNINGS & USE @ www.bsafe.ws or 877-INFO-ETP"?

This was copied off of a 2010 Easton 400 7.4gpi SUPERLITE-CARBON Light Speed shaft.

Rich
Be safe out there.
 
Posts: 23062 | Location: SW Idaho | Registered: 19 December 2005Reply With Quote
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Not every carbon shaft has that stenciled on it. I just looked at my carbon arrows and all it says is XTreme Hunter 5070.

Although my arrows are not superlite or speed shafts....
 
Posts: 816 | Location: Whitlock, TN | Registered: 23 March 2009Reply With Quote
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I stand corrected. At least partially.

All of my Easton shafts say that.
All of my Beman ICS, etc shafts have the warning and the phone number on them.
Carbon Revolution do not.

Rich
 
Posts: 23062 | Location: SW Idaho | Registered: 19 December 2005Reply With Quote
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Just looked and I have two types of Carbon Express Arrows. The first is the Terminator Hunter and in extremely tiny type it says "Go to www.safearrow.com on how to properly use a Carbon Arrow.

The second style is the Model 90529A and there is no writing on it at all. Maybe I could write it on them. Big Grin
-----

Hey Wildcat Junkie, I was thinking "Spine" meant how Stiff an Arrow is, or it takes X-weight to cause it to Deflect so much. Is that similar to what you are saying.

I can see where Carbon would tend to be similar in the Deflection all the way around, but I'll guess some Wooden Shafts need to be Indexed. Is that Full-of-Beans?
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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WOW, from the poll results, it appears that there are still a lot of wood shooters out there.

quote:
Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Wildcat Junkie, I was thinking "Spine" meant how Stiff an Arrow is, or it takes X-weight to cause it to Deflect so much. Is that similar to what you are saying.


Yes that is exactly what I am saying. I think the term "spine", when used to denote arrow stiffness, was derived from "back bone". The backbone, in most cases, imparts stiffness so one can remain upright in the case of bipeds, or in the case of quadrapeds, it keeps the belly from rubbing the ground.

quote:
Originally posted by Hot Core:
I can see where Carbon would tend to be similar in the Deflection all the way around, but I'll guess some Wooden Shafts need to be Indexed. Is that Full-of-Beans?


Not "some" but ALL wooden shafts need to be indexed. When wood shafts are sorted for spine in bulk @ the factory, they are run through a machine & are not "indexed". This results in shafts that will vary in spine, usually towards the high (stiffer) end. Someetimes by 5# or more.

When "hand spining" (that was my wife's responsibility) the shafts are 1st "indexed" across the "closed grain", then positioned between 24" centers & a 2# weight is suspended from the shaft. the deflection is measured & a given deflection results in a corosponding "spine weight". The more deflection, the weaker the spine & the lower the assigned spine weight.

Think about playing baseball as a youngster W/wooden bats. I was taught to hold the bat so that the trademark was in the up position when the bat struck the ball. That imparted the impact across the closed grain, the stiffest/strongest part of the grain structure. A wood arrow is indexed for the same reason. The stress of the arrow flexing as it goes through the "archer's paradox" must be imparted across the strongest part of the grain structure. It is also the most consistant as far as stiffness when indexed so.

After the shafts were hand spined, I would sort them by weight W/a Lyman digital scale. ( I still use that scale to weigh powder charges for centerfire rifle reloading) I would then group them in + or - 5 grains groups.

When I would select shafts to build arrows, I would catalogue the spine & raw shaft weight as well as pertenant appearance characteristics. Stain color, dip color, crest pattern & color, crest accent color as well as fletch style & color were recorded. We made arrows in 5 dozen lots. Each dozen arrows was assigned a # 1 through 5 along W/the date.

This became a seriel # of sorts. If I sold a customer a dozen arrows & he called me 6 months later for another dozen, I could use that seriel # to duplicate the arrows.

When I say duplicate, I mean that we could not only make arrows that would have the same appearance as the previous dozen, we could make arrows out of shaft material that had the same spine & RSW. (raw shaft weight) That meant that the arrow that the customer just purchased would have exactly the same flight characteristics as the previous dozen.

After I selected the arrows for manufacture, I would heat the shafts & straighten them by compressing the fibers on the belly side. I would roll the shafts arcoss a perfectly flat surface & tune them until they were as straight as could be determined from rolling them on a flat surface.

A wood shaft is forgiving & will still fly true even if it is not absolutely straight. However, getting the shafts as straight as possible does help. Heating the shafts imparted a tempering affect & seemed to make them more resiliant as well as making the whole straightening process a lot quicker. The shafts would then go back to Wifey to be stained which helped seal the shafts. She would then dip the appropriate color cap dip or clear dip on the flecth/crest end if not cap dipped W/color.

The Bohning lacquer dip on the fletch end is imperitive for proper adhesion of the fletch & nock. There is no better combination for fletch/nock adhesion than the Bohning lacquers combined W/Bohning Fletch-Tite cement. NONE NADA ZIP. many try to use automotive & other lacquers/enamels & paints W/Duco cement, but take it from someone that made literally thuosands of DOZENS of arrows, there is no substitute for the properly engineered product.

After Wifey was done W/the staining & dipping, the shafts would return to my attention for cresting. After cresting was completed, the shafts were sent back to Wifey, who then dipped the foot end in clear satin fast drying polyurethane to apoint just above the crest, but not over the area that would be fletched. The urethane dip was used to ease removal from ethafoam targets & protect the crest from smearing as it crossed the shelf on release.

After all this the arrows would be returned to me for fletching. We used full length True-Flite turkey feathers, as well as wild turkey primary wing feathers, trimmed to length, then shaped W/a feather burning ribbon of the shape desired. If the arrows were custom ordered arrows, the nock would be installed before fletching. If they were "show" arrows, the nocks would be merely pressed on for flecthing, them popped off. This would allow the customer that was purchasing arrows @ a show to have their choice of nock style & color.

We supplied arrows to people that shot recurve bows & competed in classes that allowed aluminum arrows. These classes required shooting W/fingers & off the shelf. Those people clamed that they achieved more consistant accuracy W/our wood arrows over aluminum due to the forgiveness of the wood shafts.

A final few word about spine.

When a shaft/arrow is spined by deflection as descibed above, that is only a starting point. Factors like limb construction, string construction material & most importantly, the relationship of the shelf to "center" will alter the spine requirements. A bow that is cut to or past center is very hard to tune & will require a higher spine weight shaft. That is precisely why Black Widow bows require such high spine, not the hype & BS that they, & other manufactureers of center shot bows claim. Indeed, Black Widow bows can be hard to tune W/wood shafts unless on is aware of that fact. I used to use thick leather face plates to "shim" out the arrow rest on the shelf of these so called "hard shooting" bows. Adding 1/8" to the face plate would tame these beasts & eliminate the need for high spined (heavy mass weight) shafts. This would also reduce the need for heavy high spine shafts of the aluminum persuasion too.

The opossite affect would be apparent on bows that had handles/shelves that were way out from center. This is why most longbows sometimes require a lighter spine weight. It has nothing to do W/the misconception that longbows do not shoot as "hard" as recurve bows as a rule.

Finally, my observations on aliminum arrow spine charts.

Where the he!! did they get that $HITT!

The spine requirements listed on aluminum arrow spine charts are off by as much as 15-20#. If one just uses the old (wood shaft) deflection meter, a 2117 XX75 shaft will spine @ & shoot out af a 70# recurve bow in most cases. The spine charts published by Easton would have a 70@ traditional bow shooting heavy 2219 logs. I have seen guys using huge feltching to try to tame severely over spined shafts. If it takes a fletch over 5 1/2" long & 5/8" high to tune a shaft, then you have the wrong shaft to begin with.

In theory, a traditional bow can shoot an unfletched arrow if it is the proper spine. That is a bit extreme, but I used to try to set up W/a target bale near my booth. We would nock & point a few bare shafts of varying spine weight for tuning purposes. I would have the person shoot a bare shaft into clean cardboard on the bale @ 6-8' & observe the angle of penetration. Buy trimming the shaft back a little @ a time and/or varying the spine, we would find the spine/length/point weight combo that shot best as a bare shaft. (angle of penetration as straight as possible) Once that spine shaft was finished w/a moderate sized fletch, those arrows would fly true 99% of the time no matter whether the point was a field pioint or broadhead as long as the point weight remained constant.


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Posts: 2440 | Location: Northern New York, WAY NORTH | Registered: 04 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Yeah, that is just what I thought. Big Grin ONLY KIDDING!!!

Man-O-Man, I sure appreciate the time and effort it took for you to make that post. Lots of excellent info in it for me to ponder.

quote:
Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
WOW, from the poll results, it appears that there are still a lot of wood shooters out there.
Caught me off guard for sure.

Could you expound a bit on "Why?" the following works that way? Looks like that Bow would be easier to Tune. Isn't there less Lateral Force on the Nock(Side-to-Side) with the Arrow closer to the Centerfire position?
quote:
...A bow that is cut to or past center is very hard to tune & will require a higher spine weight shaft.
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Hot Core:

Man-O-Man, I sure appreciate the time and effort it took for you to make that post. Lots of excellent info in it for me to ponder.

quote:
Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
WOW, from the poll results, it appears that there are still a lot of wood shooters out there.
Caught me off guard for sure.

Could you expound a bit on "Why?" the following works that way? Looks like that Bow would be easier to Tune. Isn't there less Lateral Force on the Nock(Side-to-Side) with the Arrow closer to the Centerfire position?
quote:
...A bow that is cut to or past center is very hard to tune & will require a higher spine weight shaft.


We are talking about tuning a traditional recurve or longbow shooting "off the shelf". The only tuning that can be done on such a bow is to build out or thin down the arrow plate as I stated previously (or take a rasp to the riser in then case of a bow that has a severe out from center window) or adjust the brace hieght by twisting/untwisting the string.

That makes getting the proper spine paramount to a well tuned combo W/a traditional bow, especially when shooting off the shelf.

Most traditional shooter eventually gravitate to shooting off the shelf because it eliminates one more gadget that can fail & is also much quieter than a mechanical rest. Nearly all traditional bowhunters shoot off the shelf for that reason.

Wood arrows wieghing 550to 600gr shot off the shelf @ 180-200fps are deadly quiet & will penetrate clean through a deer W/a large cut on impact broadhead.

I have had pass throughs from a 55# recurve bow penetrate 6 inches or more into sandy ground beyond a fatally hit deer.


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Posts: 2440 | Location: Northern New York, WAY NORTH | Registered: 04 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Aluminum.. a 2315 arrow with broadhead weighing in at 454 grains will kill anything in north america !! Even better a 2219 will give you more weight. I was working in an archery shop when carbon arrows first came out,They were BAD.and that cured all reason to want to use carbon.. Wood for long bow and recurve,Aluminum for compounds Carbon for motorcycle and car fenders!!!
 
Posts: 145 | Location: Haines Oregon | Registered: 15 February 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
We are talking about tuning a traditional recurve or longbow shooting "off the shelf". ...
Thank you.

Talked with my old MARINE CORPS buddy Ralph last night and come to find out he had a Black Widow a long time ago. It ended up going to one of his Cousins who was getting interested in Archery.
-----

Hey Ty, You mentioned 2315 and 2219 which brings up an old memory from 30+ years ago. Other than designating different Shafts with different Dimentions, don't the numbers somehow relate to the Diameter and Wall Thickness?
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by ty_falcon:
Aluminum.. a 2315 arrow with broadhead weighing in at 454 grains will kill anything in north america !! Even better a 2219 will give you more weight. I was working in an archery shop when carbon arrows first came out,They were BAD.and that cured all reason to want to use carbon.. Wood for long bow and recurve,Aluminum for compounds Carbon for motorcycle and car fenders!!!


I will agree with you that when carbon arrows first came out, they were bad. But if you haven't shot any of the carbon shafts made in the last couple of years, you're really missing the boat. The new shafts are much straighter, more durable and far better constructed than the Carbon shafts of old.

I used to feel the same way about carbon arrows. However I got talked into trying some and since then, haven't looked back. No more dented shafts, bent shafts, I can set my bow down on the ground if needed, right on the quiver and the arrows are just fine when I pick the bow back up.

Just like any product that evolves, Carbon arrows are a whole different animal than the originals.
 
Posts: 816 | Location: Whitlock, TN | Registered: 23 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Carbon shafts make good strikers for a slate turkey call.

rudyc


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Posts: 319 | Location: S E Wisconsin | Registered: 15 December 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by rudyc:
Carbon shafts make good strikers for a slate turkey call.
The guy that I got my Bow from, Tim, was cutting off some Arrow Shafts for a youngster the last time I was there. I picked one up and mentioned there ought to be SOMETHING we could do with them.

Tim will be thrilled to hear about that.
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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The first 2 numbers is the shaft diameter, the second 2 are the wall thickness. I dont remember the exact numbers. We built a guy a custom martin The draw weight was 100 lbs. The 2219 was the only arrow that would hold up.
 
Posts: 145 | Location: Haines Oregon | Registered: 15 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Another good use for extra shaft material. After the pen is glued in you can replace the insert. The top one has seen some hard use the nock broke Smiler
 
Posts: 145 | Location: Haines Oregon | Registered: 15 February 2004Reply With Quote
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I have carbon, wood, fiberglass, and bamboo arrows in my rack right now.

I love a quality set of wood arrows to shoot from my longbows.

Prefer to shoot bamboo out of my selfbows and carbons or woodies out of my recurves.

Here is my thoughts on the subject.

Carbon is without a doubt the best material for arrows right now. From the skinny carbons like Easton Axis or Beman MFX all the way to top of the line like Carbon Tech. Easy to make into arrows, easily duplicated when you need more.

My personal opinion is to avoid Gold tips like the plague, but many people use them with great success. When they first came out, we spined, weighed and measured run out on some. The quality control was horrid. May be better now, but I will not use them.

If you are shooting a compound, carbon is the way to go.

Wildcat did a great job on arrow spine.
But what you need to understand that arrow shafts actually have two spine to be concerned with.
1. Static spine- that is the spine that you get when you span the shaft and hang a weight from the center. Like he explained above, but I thought it was 1.94lbs and 28" or 26" and two lbs#. Just measure the deflection in inches and that is the spine.

2. Dynamic spine- this the spine that when you are shooting the arrow from the bow.
Here are a list of factors that can change dynamic spine.

-arrow length
-tip weight
-draw weight
-string material
-draw length or power stroke of the bow
-shooting style, fingers, (split or three under) or release
-bow type
-how close to centershot the bow is

Each of these can have an effect on tuning the arrow to the bow.

The nice thing about compounds and elevated rests, you can easily change the centershot of the bow.

I disagree with wildcat in the fact that I believe a traditional bow that is closer to centershot is easier to tune and shoot.
In my experience tuning traditional bows, the amount of centershot is the hardest thing for me to accomodate when tuning.

I used a 630gr wood arrow out of my 60# longbow to shoot clean through the Wyoming Shiras moose I killed in 2007.
 
Posts: 2034 | Location: Black Mining Hills of Dakota | Registered: 22 June 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by ty_falcon:
The first 2 numbers is the shaft diameter, the second 2 are the wall thickness. ...
Thanks Ty. Hard to remember some things from 30+ years ago for me. And Tim will absolutely love the Arrow Shaft Pens. tu2
-----

Hey SDHunter, Much obliged for your thoughts and experience. The Dynamic Spine List looks similar to how a Cartridge works in a Barrel - everything has an effect on it.

I doubt that I'd have thought of String Type having enough effect to be able to tell a difference. Thanks.
 
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by SDhunter:

Wildcat did a great job on arrow spine.
But what you need to understand that arrow shafts actually have two spine to be concerned with.
1. Static spine- that is the spine that you get when you span the shaft and hang a weight from the center. Like he explained above, but I thought it was 1.94lbs and 28" or 26" and two lbs#. Just measure the deflection in inches and that is the spine.


28" is the standard arrow length where spine is rated. The rule of thumb was to deduct/add 2# required for every inch of draw length under/over 28" (when the bow is marked @ X# @ 28") The spine meter spans 24" between the points where the shaft is supported.

quote:
Originally posted by SDhunter:


2. Dynamic spine- this the spine that when you are shooting the arrow from the bow.
Here are a list of factors that can change dynamic spine.

-arrow length
-tip weight
-draw weight
-string material
-draw length or power stroke of the bow
-shooting style, fingers, (split or three under) or release
-bow type
-how close to centershot the bow is

Each of these can have an effect on tuning the arrow to the bow.

The nice thing about compounds and elevated rests, you can easily change the centershot of the bow.

I disagree with wildcat in the fact that I believe a traditional bow that is closer to centershot is easier to tune and shoot.
In my experience tuning traditional bows, the amount of centershot is the hardest thing for me to accomodate when tuning.


We are not neccessarily in disagreement.

There is a difference between close to center & cut to or past center. Of course, the closer to center a traditionl bow has it's window cut, the easier to tune. To a point. Once the window is cut so that it eliminates the "archers paradox" the arrow can flex in any direction. When there is no mechanical rest to tune, this can make the way the shaft flexes when the arrow is loosed erratic. Especially W/the slight differences in individual wood shafts.

A small bit of out from center is usually the easiest type of "shelf" to tune. When a mechanical arrow rest that is ajustable is employed, tuning a centershot (traditional) bow is much easier. Been there, done that. I still much prefer shooting off the shelf. It's quieter & much less prone to mechanical failure.


GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810
 
Posts: 2440 | Location: Northern New York, WAY NORTH | Registered: 04 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Your are correct, not is disagreement.
My reading comprehension was just lacking the other night.

I can see how a past center shot bow would cause problems.
 
Posts: 2034 | Location: Black Mining Hills of Dakota | Registered: 22 June 2005Reply With Quote
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I shoot Douglas fir arrows. I really enjoy crafting them, and they are straight, strong and heavy. They penetrate big animals well. I shoot longbows and recurves.
 
Posts: 1077 | Location: NT, Australia | Registered: 10 February 2011Reply With Quote
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I resisted the switch to carbon for the same reason as most,, the first ones had some strength, safety issues, the cost was also an issue. I switched for most of my hunting for the durability of the newer carbons. A good example for using carbon could be going on a safari where weight and space is very limited. On a pass through shot which is what about 80% or more of mine in Africa have been,, I have the option of reusing the shaft,, if it was aluminum,, very slim chance it is unbent or dented. You can run out of arrows very quickly with the metal shafts over there. I shoot a 70 lb bow and even shooting at targets,, the metal shafts become untrue much faster than the carbon. We shoot a bunch of pigs around here and a bunch of my friends are shooting them with aluminum shafts again,, sort of like disposable arrows use. To each his own,, plenty of plus and minus for both types.


you can make more money, you can not make more time
 
Posts: 786 | Location: Mexia Texas | Registered: 07 July 2006Reply With Quote
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I shoot xx75 or X7 indoors and ACC aluminum/carbon for hunting or 3D. Never had any luck with beeman but Carbon Xpress makes some nice shafts. I have never destroyed an acc shaft to date and i've been shooting them since they came out.
 
Posts: 442 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 14 October 2009Reply With Quote
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Wildcat Junkie, thank you very much for your detailed explanations about arrows, and trad bows. That is very informative, and I appreciate the time you took to write your posts, very helpful!

Since Easton introduced them, the only arrow shaft I've shot is the Easton ACC. I shoot a 30" 3-60, tipped with a 100 grain Thunderhead. I draw 27 1/2", and like to have that broadhead in front of my hand always. For years, I shot that out of an old Browning 6T6 set at 67 pounds, and had wonderfully true arrow flight (which is so important to penetration, so important). I have no doubt that some of the new carbon shafts are very good, but the ACC's are so good I haven't seen a reason to change from them. A few years ago, I picked up a Mathews Switchback, and shoot the same arrows, but at 65 pounds, and get very similar flight. Don't really care for the Switchback that much, and may look for something new, but probably won't go back to my old Browning. I also want to purchase a nice longbow and begin the journey into traditional, which I think may ultimately become my preferred method of hunting.

To expand upon the question and comment about aluminum shaft sizing, I'll add that the first two numbers refer to how many 64ths of an inch the shaft diameter is, while the last two refer to how many thousands of an inch the wall thickness is. Therefore, a 2315 shaft is 23/64 of an inch in diameter and has a wall that is 15/1000 inch thick.
 
Posts: 3855 | Location: California | Registered: 01 January 2009Reply With Quote
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