Chief I used a compound for years but since I am now disabled I am allowed to use a xbow. How about women or kids that maybe cannot pull back a decent poundage bow? I would rather see them use a xbow instead of a 35 pound bow. No us xbow guys get it you do not. You are selfish and want the woods to yourself and do not want anyone else competing with you. More and more game management folks are seeing xbows a vital management/hunting tool expecially for older folks and those who may not be able to use a bow due to strengh problems. You gonna deny them too the chance to hunt? I would rather see a person use a xbow and harvest a animal cleanly than use a bow and due to problems using said bow wound a animal. Yea bad shots can be made with both, but if a person can use a crossbow well and not a bow I would rather see them use the weapon that gives them the best chance of killing instead of wounding.

I dunno, CC1, maybe I've got a different perspective because AFAIK, there never was an issue here in Ontario between bows and crossbows.

I remember selling crossbows 30 years ago when I worked in a gun shop. The regs at the time just specified a certain draw minimum weight, one for bows and one for crossbows (as they do now). The fact that the crossbow draw weight is much higher tells me that they aren't the efficient little killing machines you believe them to be. So, you still have to be close.

I understand what you're saying about the "spirit of the law", but the simple fact is, when it comes down to brass tacks, it's the letter of the law that counts. And if you don't have a legal, logical, supportable reason to oppose it, then you're fighting a losing battle.

AFA jumping up and down like little kids, it seems like it's the bowhunters who are not wanting to let anyone else on their playground.

quote:

AFA jumping up and down like little kids, it seems like it's the bowhunters who are not wanting to let anyone else on their playground.

Yea that about covers it. I do not know what AFA stands for I suppose a bow group. I know most bow hunting assoc or groups in the states are that way just like a little bunch of kids. That is why I told Cheif to grow up and I guess I should have added play nicely.

As I stated before--many times I might add. People with a disability in Alberta can use a crossbow during archery season that's fair and reasonable, not many people will jump on that one. Jh45gun I am playing nicely-I have a different point of view you don't like it-doesn't matter to me and neither should it to you. You might notice that although I own and shoot a crossbow I don't advocate hunting with it in the bow season. If I want to shoot something with it I'll simple go out during rifle season...I'm a good enough hunter to score with a bow so I suppose I should be able to use a crossbow.

the chef

What ever works for you chief but I like to hunt in the archery seasons and even though I legally can do so I get a little peaved when the anti xbow folks suggest that they be used during a gun season. Why? They are not a gun not even close to one but they are a archery product that belongs in a archery season. What your saying would be about the same as saying use a centerfire gun during the muzzle loading season. They just do not belong there. Same thing with xbows they are an archery platform and they belong in a archery season unless that area does not have an archery season, then that is a whole other can of worms.

I have no objection to the use of crossbows by the legitimately handicapped. I do object to their being considered for use in the bow season as they differ from the stickbow or compound in that there is no requirement to hold the weight of the bow (whether reduced by cams or not) at full draw. This factor alone makes them more similar to firearms in that they are cocked and left loaded until the trigger is pulled. The manufacturers have created a market and will continue to offer the scope mounted high weight crossbow as long as there are people willing to buy them. The crossbow does present a threat to the bowhunting archer in that their use will greatly impact the harvests rates and will likely cause alterations in seasons and limits for our children. The North American Bowhunting Coalition (NABC) has also opposed the use of crossbows in the archery seasons except by the disabled. This is an organizations that represents on a national level the various state bowhunting organizations. Those that believe that the crossbow is not more inherently accurate at a greater range than a compound or a stickbow are sadly mistaken.

The crossbow is similar to bows and guns.

All of these take game that some jealous person might say he wants to take with only his device.

As an experienced firearms aficionado I find the crossbow interesting. The regular bow never held my interest over the last half century.

For:

1. Crossbows will get more people into hunting.
2. The crossbow has been around at least 500 years. Making the statement that it isn't traditional is ignoring history.
3. Crossbows require less practice to maintain accurate shooting.
4. Crossbows have zero to minimal distance advantages over the modern compound.
5. Crossbows are among the most expensive of any bow type, though there are compounds in the $1000 plus market. This expense creates a us/them belief that only the rich can afford a crossbow. Many crossbows are at a similar price point to compound bows in the $350-$850 range.
6. Crossbows give the physically disabled an ability to hunt again.
7. Crossbows give children a lethal method of hunting big game, many that are not able to harness the power of a compound or recurve. As a child I had a 50 pound recurve I couldn't even draw back.
8. Many think crossbows give an unfair advantage. This is no different than modern versus traditional blackpowder and more importantly the long range shooting phenominon.
9. Many think crossbows go against the spirit of bowhunting. Let me ask you this, did you walk or take a horse drawn buggy to your hunting spot? Did you wear buckskinners, or were you decked out in $150-1000 worth of high tech scent blocking camo? Did you use trail cameras, supplimental feed (bait), build food plots, name your deer, use a GPS or cell phone on the stand? I bet Fred Bear and Saxton Pope didn't do any of those things. Spirit of bowhunting my ass.

Against
1. Crossbows in many parts of the nation, are thought of as a poachers weapon.
2. Crossbows have been used in crimes more often that compounds, recurves or longbows (in the past 30 years).
3. Many compound, recurve and longbow shooters think crossbows give an unfair advantage.

I bow hunted for 40 years till an accident took away my ability to pull and hold a heavy hunting bow. I now use a crossbow here in Iowa, but I had to get a signed doctors note and send it in to the state in order to get permission to hunt with it.

This allowed me to get back into "bowhunting", the only way I could, by using a crossbow. I have hunted with longbows,selfbows, recurves, compounds, and now a crossbow, so I feel well qualified to state the following facts.

I could always shoot better and further with a tuned compound bow than I ever could with the several crossbows that I have used. Back in the 80's it was impossible to get a crossbow with a decent trigger let off, now it is not because they have improved them immensely.

The idea that you don't have to practice with a crossbow is Bullshit, and if you are a dedicated hunter, you will practice with whatever you are going to hunt with.

The idea that you can kill further with a crossbow is wrong, in my opinion. Yes the crossbow has more poundage but because it is not as accurate as a compound and doesn't have nearly as much arrow weight or penetration, you still need to get close in order to reliably kill with the crossbow.

The crossbow is much slower to use on a second backup shot if needed, and I have to have my string cocker ready to even re-cock the thing. That makes it harder to use in certain situations such as inside a ground blind. I use a small brush, ground blind and there is not room enough inside it to re-cock the bow, so I have to get outside the blind to even re-cock it.

Because of all the cables and such on a crossbow, and the fact that many of them are at right angles to the stock, that makes it nearly impossible to still hunt well with a crossbow, it is always getting tangled in brush and keeps it from being a good silent hunting weapon.

To me, people who complain about the use of a crossbow because of some perceived mechanical advantage, have not been watching all the new add-ons and toys available for the compound and recurve shooters.
Do you guys really think that you are shooting a primitive weapon when it has a whisker biscuit rest and an adjustable sight that is supposed to let you hit out to 100 yards? How about mechanical broadheads?

If we are going to limit bowhunting to primitive only, then lets outlaw everything other than a handmade self bow and instinctive shooting. While we are at it, lets set a requirement that you have to make the whole setup yourself, including hand knapped arrowheads. Have you ever hunted with such a setup? Well I have, and that's a good way to learn how far you can accurately hunt with your bow. You will very quickly find that your limit is between 20 and 30 yards on deer with an outfit like this, and 15 yards is better yet.

One more thing needs to be aired here. Just because you can hit a deer at a certain distance, does not allow you to shoot at them at whatever your range might be. You need to be able to say positively that you at least think you can humanely kill that deer with the first shot.

I have not read all the posts, so this may have already been brought up: Over a three year period, Texas P&W conducted surveys of their public hunts involving crossbows and vertical bows. Findings revealed that the average success rate was virtually the same with either bow and the average shot distance was about a yard further with the vertical vs the crossbow - either was under 30 yards.

So, where is the great perceived advantage? Crossbows are heavier, bulkier, louder, more involved to cock, and slower to get a follow up shot. Many find them to be less accurate unless a solid rest is available. Both bows have limbs, strings, shoot arrows, and depend on blood hemmorage to kill the animal. Most compound shooters use a trigger release, and while they pull back poundage, the let off makes holding much less of a problem than a stick bow. They seem to be more alike than different. JMO

The only real advantage to a cross bow that I can see having bow hunted now for 47 plus years is the fact that I can stay seated and there is a lot less movement to getting the bow into action.

been busted many times drawing my bow.

I use both.A crossbow is more akin to muzzle loader in that if you miss your shot ,you can not cock it fast enough for a second shot.I own a Excaliber and limit myself to 40 yard shots.During the early season I use a compound.The colder it gets the harder it is for me to draw ,so I use the crossbow.I am 71 years old and this keeps me in the field.If you do not like crossbows(DO NOT USE THEM).Do not bad mouth every one who does.Hunters are their own worse enemies with the constant bickering and bias opinions against what they do not think is" FAIR".I could care less what the Pope and Onions opinion on crossbows is.Hunters are like Farmers.The Seasons too long or too short.Too much rain,not enough rain.bla,bla bla.What a bunch of cunts.

^^^^^

I have a crossbow. I also am 60 years old and lost some use of my right shoulder compliments of a drunk driver.

I don't hunt with it. Its about as handy as an umbrella in the woods.

I make sure I get enough deer hunting in during rifle and maybe muzzle season.

To each his own. If its legal where you are and you want hunt with one, best of luck. Just not my cup of tea.

I think the crossbow is a last resort of sorts for those who age and infirmity have robbed of the resilience and strength of youth.

Who can say, that by time they turn 70, it may be their only recourse to be out in the game fields.

If it comes to that, it will be mine.

But, not just yet...

I've had to switch to a crossbow due to a permanent shoulder injury.

I really miss my compound. I loved shooting and hunting with it. I also loved to bow hunt. I love the woods in the fall during the archery season. So I bought a crossbow so I can once again, after several years of sitting out archery season, be out there again.

I am enjoying getting to know this new crossbow. I shoot it as often as possible. I tinker with it and even decided to put a scope on it with an illuminated reticle. Accuracy is everything for me so I am going to be as prepared as possible when I decide to take aim and shoot a deer, or what ever, with this new device. I do not like it as much as I did my compound. The crossbow is heavy, it's loud, it is slower to reload than a compound. Not nearly as much fun but I relish that I have a choice to be in the woods once again and enjoy all that is out there. I own my property outright and I spend a lot of time making it better for wildlife. Much of the time I just watch, do my thinking, sometimes nap up there. Nice to not have to listen to umpteen rifle shots during this time during the year. I missed doing these things so much.

Once archery opens up again on the 25th I hope to see that big 6 point I saw after I shot my rifle buck.

I too have neck and shoulder infirmities-
Anyone here using a SCORPYD

The local archery shop has a very interesting crossbow set up on consignment.

It is, iirc, a PSE model that uses an AR-15 bottom end.

The owner is supposed to bring the pieces back to the shop Thursday to look at. A friend of a friend had an accident, and is now a confined to a wheelchair. They are hoping that he can operate it and get back hunting again.

CC, I have a Scorpyd. I bought it back before they were available, from the designed/builder working at home at the time. Pretty cool bow, and quiet by crossbow standards. I've taken quite a few deer with it. I think it was $550 when I bought it....guess they're 3 times that now.

The last time I looked at wounding losses for archery, it amounted to something like 30% for archery for deer which at that time did not include crossbows for deer. That's against 19% for firearms if I remember the numbers right. That's a very big discrepancy. If a crossbow cuts that in half, it would be great. A good archer with a bow can probably cut that to less than 5%. A good rifleman with a crossbow can probably do the same. Those less competent or much less competent likely won't move the number so much, but it seems quite probable that will likely see some pretty significant improvement with a crossbow though.

My shoulders won't let me pull any bow of any weight anymore. I can however still cock a crossbow and I can place arrows extremely accurately at twenty-50 yards. I don't anticipate ever shooting at a deer at fifty yards, but can see shooting them at 30-35 if need be and the deer I have shot at 20 were all heart shots that died very quickly. The speed and power of a crossbow can probably compensate to some degree for misjudging range and hitting bone.

I see it as a reasonable tool that should make things better with very little likelihood of making things worse. A conventional bow is very poor in low light conditions compared to a crossbow with a good scope. Only someone with a poorly informed sense of proprietary interest in wild deer really has much to complain about. Moderately relieving that ignorance may not be easy, or even likely, but that doesn't excuse it. In far too many places the problem is killing enough deer to keep vehicle collisions down.

miles58,

I have always questioned those numbers. Too many hunters, of every ilk, would rather say they wounded a big game animal but lost the blood trail, rather than admit they missed, or never got a shot off.

My other issue with your post is that draw weight keeps a lot of "extra season" hunters who are not willing to put the time in practicing to gain proficiency. Compounds did that to archery, grew the numbers, but degraded the art. Crossbows will further erode that skill level.

I will say, I do admire the way you phrased your post to put everyone who has any objections to the "whatever it takes, as long as I get to kill something..." point of view on the defensive.
People who have what you describe as a "poorly formed sense of proprietary interest in wild deer..." are called Fish & Game departments, and conservationists here in Idaho.

I will also admit that killing more deer to keep deer/vehicle collisions is a novel approach.

My favorite part, though; is the "reasonable tool" thing. That sounds just like what liberals, et al use in asking for more reasonable laws regarding the right (which they prefer Privilege to right) to own and use firearms.

My perspective is coming from living adjacent to a zone in which the "limit" is how many antlerless tags you can buy I could hunt that zone and literally kill 1000 deer and the DNR would be appreciative. Most of the LGUs in that zone are PAYING people to kill deer and haul 'em away. In my neighborhood I know of 17 deer Hit by cars within 1/2 mile of where I am hunting in addition to eight killed by hunters in the last two years. This is an area that amounts to little more than half a section.

I chose the words carefully. People with a poorly formed proprietary interest in the deer feed them and think they're so cute. Some, think that they are for them alone to shoot.

In point of fact it is a very reasonable tool with limited range which limits accident potential. It is comparatively very quiet which limits the upset to the Bambi lovers. It is quite lethal which limits the number of deer running off and only to die in front of someone's dining room window or worse yet standing there blowing blood out of it's nose and mouth and then tipping over.

Lastly, I know of no one who'd rather say they wounded and lost a deer than missed.

I hear that frequently. In Idaho one is all you get.

And that explains the other word I chose carefully. Ignorance. Up until I went on a population reduction campaign the deer were literally eating us out of house and home. Not only did they eat my tomato plant, they ate the tomatoes too. They ate the beets. They ate the beans. They ate the squash. They ate the cucumbers. They ate the sunflowers. They ate my rhubarb right down to the ground, as toxic as those leave are. They ate every bit or new growth off of my blueberries so that I got but a single berry. They broke down the electric fence. They ate everything. Now I am eating them and burying the gut pile in the garden for spite.

I killed four last year with a downloaded ML rifle.

Deer can be a major problem if you let them get out of control.

quote:

Originally posted by miles58:
And that explains the other word I chose carefully. Ignorance. Up until I went on a population reduction campaign the deer were literally eating us out of house and home. Not only did they eat my tomato plant, they ate the tomatoes too. They ate the beets. They ate the beans. They ate the squash. They ate the cucumbers. They ate the sunflowers. They ate my rhubarb right down to the ground, as toxic as those leave are. They ate every bit or new growth off of my blueberries so that I got but a single berry. They broke down the electric fence. They ate everything. Now I am eating them and burying the gut pile in the garden for spite.

I killed four last year with a downloaded ML rifle.

Deer can be a major problem if you let them get out of control.

I remember when we used to have a lot of deer...then the wolves came along with.. for the most part unlimited tags then cwd. how much different a decade makes

I have driven 90/94 many many times down to Evansville or to Arlington Heights. I can't remember how many times I counted more than 100 dead deer along the road. Bad road. Very bad road. About ten years back Wisconsin had way too many deer in a lot of places.

quote:

Originally posted by miles58:
I have driven 90/94 many many times down to Evansville or to Arlington Heights. I can't remember how many times I counted more than 100 dead deer along the road. Bad road. Very bad road. About ten years back Wisconsin had way too many deer in a lot of places.

You are correct...Wisconsin deer population a little more than a decade ago was almost twice what it is now and as a whole we are still over populated according to the DNR.

However, I liked "too many" deer. Hunters seemed much happier, more people were hunting and tags were plentiful

Anyway...back to crossbows. I don't use one..yet but I'm not opposed to anyone using one in any season. I don't see how if the neighbor is using a crossbow in archery season while I'm shooting my Hoyt..which I can shoot a whole lot farther than any crossbow I know of, how that makes a difference to me.

To add fuel to the fire. We now have the Benjamin Airbow. Gook luck with that.

so, in short, i feel
if its an arrow, then its a bow
if its a bullet, then its a gun

frankly, xbows put more people hunting, which is a good thing ...
some SNOBS gets their panties in a twist about bow vs xbow ... this isn't a real question, even though its a religion question for some.

bows require tons of practice, and skill, and training ... and, frankly, most people aren't going to commit to this --- but if more xbows get more people hunting, and taking game cleanly, then i support that....

oh, yeah, and e can mount night vision on xbows, which means I can shoot pigs in my yard, in the city, and not have humane issues to do so

I killed four deer with my crossbow in 2015. Three intentional heart shots and one intentionally just above the heart broadside so as to disconnect the heart from the lungs and still get a good amount of lungs as well.

I limited my shots to 20 yards and waited for exactly the shot I wanted and a calm dee to0. The last, the broadside shot, took a month before I got the deer I wanted in exactly the position wanted.

I shot a near 500 grain arrow at close on 300 FPS. Practice had shown me I could hold that inside an inch and a half at fifty yards with a decent rest. I have no doubts that I could keep that inside six inches in calm air at 100 and that it would still be quite lethal. That's an awful lot to ask of any compound bow and archer.

The shots I was taking required extremely precise shot placement which the crossbow made easy. Shooting a crossbow from a rest with a good scope makes simple work of precision accuracy that only the tiniest percentage of vertical bow shooters can approach. Quality optics can make it easy to know with very high precision where the internal target lies in relation to the external references on a deer even in very poor light conditions. So much so that it is entirely possible to see ribs and slip an arrow in between them if you choose and are patient.

I don't really feel strongly one way or the other about should crossbows be restricted to a season separate from vertical bows. I can see that a crossbow can easily provide advantages that just are not and will never be available to a vertical bow shooter. DNRs manage deer by looking at total mortality year to year in smaller specific areas as well as overall. Many places are not appropriate for center fire rifles. Some are appropriate for shotguns, muzzle loaders and hand guns. Some are appropriate for much quieter tools like bows, crossbows and small caliber rifles down loaded so as to be very quiet. They are not my deer, they belong to the state. What I choose to shoot them with is balanced against where and when I want to hunt and what I wish to shoot and why. I live in a residential area of five acre lots. Our deer population is out of control. I am the only person I know of willing to step up and kill off some of them. For me, the crossbow is a no-brainer. It is deadly accurate, it's very quiet, it is almost as lethal as a rifle and it has well more than enough power and range to do what I need it to do.

I do not believe there are enough bow hunters of all stripes available to keep the deer in the five county metro area in Minnesota under control. Were there, I do not think most of the local government units in that area would be paying people $300/deer and more to kill them and dispose of them. There are dozens of "special hunts" held all over Minnesota, some of which with no limit and all of which to my knowledge do not count against the statewide bag limit. There is a metro deer zone with a single antlered deer limit but an unlimited antlerless limit and still the LGUs have to hire people to manage an over population. Certainly at least in Minnesota no one should have any problems with crossbow hunters being allowed to shoot as many as any other method and during any season. The area in which I live, I killed four last fall and eleven have been killed by cars since January.

I used to shoot competitive archery in 4-H in junior high. I hunted with that same archery tackle, and wasn't successful, but my father wasn't a bowhunter and wasn't interested in it. So I never once got to hunt an archery season in Wyoming, Montana, New Mexico or Arizona growing up (we moved a bit).

As an adult, I still own the same Bear Kodiak recurve my father bought me in the 1980s. I can shoot it, but it really isn't something I am interested in.

I have on several occasions bought compounds and returned them or sold them on ebay after I realized yet again that a compound bow was about as interesting as a shovel.

For some reason Crossbows are more interesting, and in some states we have the right to hunt the same seasons as compounds, recurves and longbows.

There is nothing traditional about a modern crossbow or modern compound. Anyone that says a compound is traditional hunting is full of himself, and a colossal wind bag.

Modern bows are just that modern, there is more rocket science in a modern bow than there is in a box of Superformance Hornady 270 WSM ammunition.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful There is nothing traditional about a crossbow ...

ahhh..hah? wait, what? -- xbows, straight bows, and recurves all predate firearms --- by a long shot ...

so, let's see -- the crossbow has been known for at least 2,500 years in europe --- the english longbow, in its form of being heavy enough to pierce armour, less than half of that ---

i would therefore say that the crossbow is AT LEAST as "traditional" as a recurve bow,

Damn you Jeff, editorial police. I fixed it. You are right, I should have said modern crossbow and modern compound.

Since last fall I learned that I could and how to rehab my shoulders with a compound. I bought an HTR. That bow gives the lie to people peeing down their leg about the crossbow holding the string load. It has an 85% let off. That means that at 50 pound draw weight I am only holding 7.5 pounds. I can hold 7.5 pounds for an awful long time if I need to, most of my rifles weigh more than that loaded and scoped.

The point to me is that I don't really want to hunt with a compound, I want to hunt with a crossbow.

I don't like compound bows, and I am not interested in them.

If you elitist think a guy should hunt with a vertical bow, during archery season I agree. No more compounds, and we'll call it even.

This is the biggest sportsmen against sportsmen case I know of, followed by hounds, trapping, baiting and high fence. It is also one of the stupidist I know of.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
The point to me is that I don't really want to hunt with a compound, I want to hunt with a crossbow.

I don't like compound bows, and I am not interested in them.

If you elitist think a guy should hunt with a vertical bow, during archery season I agree. No more compounds, and we'll call it even.

This is the biggest sportsmen against sportsmen case I know of, followed by hounds, trapping, baiting and high fence. It is also one of the stupidist I know of.

BWW............ yah, I agree. I have used archery equipment for years and my wife has to. I started with a recurve, then went to a compound. My wife started with a compound.

I have gone back to a recurve because I miss the simplicity. My wife had some problems and had wrist surgery. She can no long use a bow and we got her a crossbow.

I have had a chance to use it and she used it a bunch. In reality it is not a whole lot of use beyond 40 yards, at least I would not hunt with it beyond that. It is a lot of fun to shoot and it gets her out there again now that she cannot use the regular archery equipment.

Where we are there just are not that many archers and I have a hard time understanding why anyone really cares about whether someone uses a crossbow or not. There are thousands of "Boomers" getting long in the tooth and having medical issues. I'd rather keep them in the field with a crossbow than worry about whether someone with a crossbow is somehow limiting my fun with the recurve. Give me a break!!!! Just more of our self implosion techniques.

I do not care if someone wants to use a crossbow during archery season. Fly right at it. It is not going to mess up my hunt and if they get a deer........... good for them.

It reminds me of the ridiculous asshole snubbing of people casting lures with spinning gear by the fly-fishing crowd.......... and I am a very serious fly-fisherman. I enjoy fly-fishing but could care less how others want to fish. I just want them to get out there and do their thing and enjoy the resource and quality time.

I was standing in one of those little creeks in Yellowstone one some idiot from California (funny, now I am the idiot from California) got the shits with me over me using a spinning rod in the creek. The retard biologist (damn more self hate, I am a wildlife biologist by education but not vocation) of Yellowstone changed that particular creek to fly fishing only.

The entire time I am thinking "why the hell do you care what I do asshole?"

We are our own worst enemy.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
The point to me is that I don't really want to hunt with a compound, I want to hunt with a crossbow.

I don't like compound bows, and I am not interested in them.

If you elitist think a guy should hunt with a vertical bow, during archery season I agree. No more compounds, and we'll call it even.

This is the biggest sportsmen against sportsmen case I know of, followed by hounds, trapping, baiting and high fence. It is also one of the stupidist I know of.

i can totally agree with that -- btw, just set my new compound bow to 55lbs and 31" tonight, at the dinner table -- hell of a birthday present

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
I was standing in one of those little creeks in Yellowstone one some idiot from California (funny, now I am the idiot from California) got the shits with me over me using a spinning rod in the creek. The retard biologist (damn more self hate, I am a wildlife biologist by education but not vocation) of Yellowstone changed that particular creek to fly fishing only.

The entire time I am thinking "why the hell do you care what I do asshole?"

We are our own worst enemy.

the Ho river is also flyfish only -- elitist crap -- i can fly fish -- a zebco bought a smart for 10 bucks is still fun to fish with, and I can hand it off to the next guy as I leave the water, after paying a fortune for a license ...

my $250 fly rod? its a pita to bring on trips, and can't be bought at the local hardware/feedstore ...

I shoot my crossbow in our basement almost every day or night. I like it and it's fun.