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Would you consider a .270Win or .280 Rem a long range cartridge?
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I asked Speedy Gonzalez this back in the day and he had some ideas on it. But at the time there was less high BC bullets available in .277. So he built a target rifle in .284. I wasn't as good of a shooter and probably not enough practice either to take full advantage of it - and at the time not as good of a loader either. But when I would do my part it sure would.
 
Posts: 1440 | Location: Houston, Texas USA | Registered: 16 January 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A .270 is sure no 30-06.
Hitting targets and killing targets are two different things also.
A .223 makes 1000yrd hits on targets too, but not a big game killer at half that distance.

If you like the .270 Winchester then use it ,by all means.
 
Posts: 115 | Location: Augusta, West Virginia | Registered: 30 August 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The 270 and 280 can be long range cartridges. The caveat is you'll need a fast twist barrel to stabilize high bc bullets, and along with that a minimum spec chamber with a throat cut that is conductive to top notch accuracy.

I wouldn't consider a generic off the rack factory 270 or 280 suitable because they barrels are most likely not up to the task of stabilizing long high bc bullets.


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Posts: 7205 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It's more about the design of the rifle than the cartridge used. Long range rifles are usually heavier rifles designed to be fired prone off a bipod or other improvised rested position.
A long rifle can certainly be set up for either cartridge you've mentioned. If I where to design and build a long range rifle based on the outlined cartridge choices I would choose the 280 simply because there are far more high BC bullets out there for a 7mm than a .277 .
With the 280 Rem. I would like go with a longer custom throat to seat out a 160gr to 180gr bullet. I'd never go heavier than a 180gr because of obvious case capacity issues.
I'd likely go with blue printed Rem. 700 or one of the Rem. Clones. It's the most cost effective action design going when you need length to seat out, plus lots of parts and stocks to choose from. Every scope manufacturer now has a long range offering most have several models. Design the rifle simply by picking the latest greatest long range components and build the rifle to run your favorite flare of long range.



 
Posts: 885 | Location: satterleearmsrifles.com | Registered: 12 November 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ive always had a 270 and a 30-06, the 06 has an edge on elk perhaps, but Id be pressed to say that is fact...I never have been able to tell any difference in either..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36253 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Timan:
It's more about the design of the rifle than the cartridge used. Long range rifles are usually heavier rifles designed to be fired prone off a bipod or other improvised rested position.
A long rifle can certainly be set up for either cartridge you've mentioned. If I where to design and build a long range rifle based on the outlined cartridge choices I would choose the 280 simply because there are far more high BC bullets out there for a 7mm than a .277 .
With the 280 Rem. I would like go with a longer custom throat to seat out a 160gr to 180gr bullet. I'd never go heavier than a 180gr because of obvious case capacity issues.
I'd likely go with blue printed Rem. 700 or one of the Rem. Clones. It's the most cost effective action design going when you need length to seat out, plus lots of parts and stocks to choose from. Every scope manufacturer now has a long range offering most have several models. Design the rifle simply by picking the latest greatest long range components and build the rifle to run your favorite flare of long range.


What he said! ^^^ Lots of people using cartridges that are less capable than a 280 out to 1000+ yds. A well designed 280 has phenomenal potential, mostly because of the high BC bullets available. But also because it has enough case capacity to drive a high BC bullet at a reasonable velocity with a mild enough recoil to shoot all day long. The same combination that makes a plethora of 6.5's so venerable.
 
Posts: 9610 | Location: Tooele, Ut | Registered: 27 September 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I use a 7x64 which is virtually the European equivalent of the .280 it is a custom built rifle with a fast twist barrel and carbon fibre stock. I use if for mountain hunting and have taken it to many countries.

It will take the 180 grain bergers but I use the 168 grain VLD bullets and have used it out to 1250 metres on steel plates. It has little recoil and is a delight to shoot.
 
Posts: 172 | Location: Cumbria | Registered: 30 July 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Jeff mills:
A .270 is sure no 30-06.
Hitting targets and killing targets are two different things also.
A .223 makes 1000yrd hits on targets too, but not a big game killer at half that distance.

If you like the .270 Winchester then use it ,by all means.


I use to think that, but nothing I shot with the 270 could have dropped any faster or the bullet caused anymore damage or penetrate further (they were all pass throughs).Given same shot placement with a 30/06 on any given day any representative animal I shot above may have ran 60 yards, and that would not be uncommon.

Yes, if you I was going to shoot an elk behind the last rib angling forward I would prefer a 30/06 with a good 180 bullet. But a 140 or 150 grain 270 at 2850 or 2900 is going to get through. I would actually prefer a 9.3, 338, or 375 for such a shot.

I am not trying to be rude, a jerk, or a troll but how my Fallow could have died anymore dramatically than a pure lung shot exiting(spinal chord was not struck), blood gushing out both sides you could see it through the scope and covering the hill side, and not taking one step, but rolling down hill dead as 4 o’clock on a Sunday afternoon. How the penetration and wounds could have been more violent on those pigs is not conceivable.

I submit the 270 and 30/06 are a lot closer than folks make them out to be. Same as the 30:06 and 7mm Rem mag. Is there a difference? yes. I have decided after a year of good hunting, I will not see the difference when using comparable good bullets for caliber.

I still have no use for a 130 grain bullet. That is my wiredness. A 130 grain TSX has to be as tough as a 140 Accubond.

I like big medium bores and large bores. I agree a true difference than a 270 and a 338 and up. Just not so convinced folks are getting great more killing power with 30/06 with 270.
 
Posts: 3228 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Years ago I had a 270 built just for long range meat shooting of whitetail does, I eat little or no beef or pork, well except bacon. Why a 270 to begin with? Dance with what brung ya. We had several 270's at the time I had it built and I didn't want to fiddle with another cartridge.

Anyway, it has a one in 9 Lilja barrel 27.5 inches long 4.5 contour, heavy barrel, weighs in at 14 pounds with a muzzle brake and 10x turreted scope. It loves 130 gr Accubonds and shoots them better that even Bergers. Most any good bullet will do 5 shot sub-MOA groups. I have shot several 4 to 5 inch groups at 550 yards. Hunting ranges have all been under 550 yds with most shots around 400. I've shot dozens of deer and quite a few elk at this range with excellent results.

The late season depredation hunt cow elk I've shot with it have all died in sight. I saw no difference between the 130's and 150's. If the elk is calm, they die quickly, if they were wound up they went quite a ways even with no heart or lungs.

It's all about windage and practice anyway. And yeah, I tried a 338 for long range and go tired of having a headache at the end of a practice shoot. Any rifle that is heavy enough to shoot enough to master at extended ranges is too heavy for my taste to hump around the mountains all day at 63 years old. So, I have a nice light 270 for that and a beautiful 7x57R/12ga combo for everything else.
 
Posts: 757 | Location: Montana | Registered: 28 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Paul Tunkis:
Any rifle that is heavy enough to shoot enough to master at extended ranges is too heavy for my taste to hump around the mountains all day at 63 years old. So, I have a nice light 270 for that and a beautiful 7x57R/12ga combo for everything else.


You nailed it with the wind comment, but I don't find shooting a lot at long range in one sitting to be that beneficial - it is all about judging the wind, and your first shot tells you if you doped it correctly or not. So once or twice a week I actually fire one or two shots at 800, one or two at 1190 or 1400, and go home. On Fridays I shoot at 500 quite a bit but again, if my first shot is on, I am not going to miss the rest.

If the wind is gusting then a sustained practice session is good.


Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair
http://forums.accuratereloadin...821061151#2821061151

 
Posts: 7254 | Location: Arizona | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yeah, you're correct, more practice secessions of shorter time and less rounds down range would be better. I have a 9.3 x62 that necessitates that type of practice schedule, recoil from a 9.3 in an eight pound rifle is a brutal mistress. But I have a bit of OCD when it comes to shooting, and I really like to shoot, especially on those days when it's not windy and I can smack clay birds at 550! With a muzzle brake and a heavy barrel it is so fun to watch hits at long range! Also, my home range here is a wild wind tunnel. Here are some wind speeds taken on a walk out to 550, 0: 3mph, 100: 5 to 7 mph, 200: 10 to 15mph, behind the berm at 325: calm! 400: 5 to 10mph, 550: 10 with gusts to 20+mph. One particularly howling day I had 8 MOA into the wind and just grazed the bird! Next round fired with the same adjustment went several yards off indicating an enormous over correction!

In reality it's not a matter of the "best long range cartridge" it whether you are the best "long range shooter" you can be. Practice not only makes you better, it makes you realize your limitations in the real world.
 
Posts: 757 | Location: Montana | Registered: 28 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I used to shoot with Carlos, when he was range master in San Antonio..I have no doubt he could kill at 1000 yards, but he could miss a well, and if one can miss as well as hit, he could also wound...Keep in mind that a mans torso is an easier target than an anmals, and in the sniper world a hit is a kill..Snipers use .308s and those big ugly 338s with big,big scopes with range adjustments and wind reading scopes and a man Friday doing the math for him..Its a whole nuther ball of wax..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36253 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Tunkis:
Yeah, you're correct, more practice secessions of shorter time and less rounds down range would be better. I have a 9.3 x62 that necessitates that type of practice schedule, recoil from a 9.3 in an eight pound rifle is a brutal mistress. But I have a bit of OCD when it comes to shooting, and I really like to shoot, especially on those days when it's not windy and I can smack clay birds at 550! With a muzzle brake and a heavy barrel it is so fun to watch hits at long range! Also, my home range here is a wild wind tunnel. Here are some wind speeds taken on a walk out to 550, 0: 3mph, 100: 5 to 7 mph, 200: 10 to 15mph, behind the berm at 325: calm! 400: 5 to 10mph, 550: 10 with gusts to 20+mph. One particularly howling day I had 8 MOA into the wind and just grazed the bird! Next round fired with the same adjustment went several yards off indicating an enormous over correction!

In reality it's not a matter of the "best long range cartridge" it whether you are the best "long range shooter" you can be. Practice not only makes you better, it makes you realize your limitations in the real world.


Yesterday I shot at 800 and 1190. The wind was swirling from behind, going one direction then another, so I actually fired 11 shots with a .300 RUM and two Lapuas. 9 shots at 800 had a vertical dispersion less than 1/2 MOA (I had one shot hit one MOA too far right as well). At 1190 my elevation was dead nuts on with the 2 Lapuas but I was off 2 MOA with both shots (overestimated the wind).

Jesus Ray, Carlos Hathcock? I spoke with him on the phone a couple of times before he died. He never mentioned you.


Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair
http://forums.accuratereloadin...821061151#2821061151

 
Posts: 7254 | Location: Arizona | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I hear you. IMO, the .300 RUM with 210 Bergers is the biggest beast on wheels.


Mike

An ounce of experience is worth a pound of theory.
 
Posts: 10769 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Absolutely. Both will kill beyond 500 yards. I've one-shot killed a buck antelope well beyond that with a 130 grain GameKing out fired from my Model 700 .270 Win. Were I given a do-over, I wouldn't take that shot.

I've learned to close distance. It's a lot wiser to shoot big game at a hundred yards than farther.
 
Posts: 120 | Location: So Cal | Registered: 03 November 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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