I hoped you would be more informed about scopes, but I guess not.
It's Japanese so it can't be good? Give me a break guy!

quote:

Originally posted by artshaw:
You really are not comparing a Jap scope from a company in business for a few years to a Schmidt and Bender are you ?

Don't see any March scopes on USMC sniper rifles.......

Swaro, Zeiss, Schmidt ...... they have no equals except each other.

March scopes have been used by bench rest shooters for quite awhile and probably have no equal. It is what I would get if I could justify putting a $3,000 scope on a $1,000 rifle.

Actually, I may do that some time.

Night Forces scopes are very good. S&B are the top bench mark in my experience, with a low light ability that is unmatched by any other scope that I have ever looked through and is what I recommend if one can afford

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
My brother just sent me pics of some shooting he did at 330 yards with 155 scenars in his pedestrian Tikka 30 06. Group was 1.5 inches slightly right due to wind. He uses an older leupold straight 6 scope with the CDS turret and just dials for dollars. I shot the same rifle at 500 yards and was easily able to hit the 12x12 steel. Holding 'on' versus 'over' makes a huge difference in shooting long, In this case more than just raw magnification power in my opinion.

I'm looking into a 300 Win and will put a 3.5 to 10 VX3 with a CDS and think that should be good for up to 500. You can get the CDS made to match your trajectory and marked similarly.

Good luck!

said brother also used the same M8 6x42 with M1's when he shot this group at 505 with a 7-08...

Well this Jap March scope may be fine for the controlled environment of target shooting but the USMC picked the S&B.

When March has been around as long as Schmidt, Zeiss or Swaro, then we'll see.

As for putting a $3000 scope on a $1000 rifle ..... that's what smart people do and they spend even more on binocs.

$2400 scope on $1100 rifle. 1/2 MOA with 338 300gr Bergers as far as you want.




Five @ TWO HUNDRED during break in with mirage a 10 mph X wind, no spotter, no flags.

quote:

Originally posted by artshaw:
Well this Jap March scope may be fine for the controlled environment of target shooting but the USMC picked the S&B.

When March has been around as long as Schmidt, Zeiss or Swaro, then we'll see.

Are you honestly this racist? It's been a reliable scope for years, top of the line for benchrest and just recently branching into the tactical side of the market. Yes, S&B is a great scope. No, they aren't perfect.

In the tactical match circuit S&B has had more issues than usual recently, and these guys are treating their rigs essentially as a sniper does in combat.

Most commonly used are Bushnell, S&B, and NF, with the least malfunctions I've seen coming from Bushnell surprisingly.

Please, take another opportunity to post pictures this rifle some more...

For what it's worth I shoot a "Jap SWFA SS" on my 338 which is comparable ballistically and most likely in recoil as well, and it has tracked perfect and exceeded my expectations for several years now.

Tyler,
He has all the right answers. If it is Japanese and the Marines don't have it, it is less than a good scope. I'm not on here to argue the merits of the S&B. I won't say it is not a good scope because it is made in urup. Before I made asinine statements I would do a little research
on the subject. You may find this link interesting.
http://marchscopes.com/tactical-gallery.html


Oh, by the way, What is a 10MPG X wind?

Oh, Look. Its a Marine using Japanese Glass. Yep Campers this is the new XM3. It comes with a 3-15 from Nightforce. They are built in Id but the glass is from Japan.

Most of the better scope makers use Japanese glass these days because they are so good at it. Some of the Euros that grind their own lenses still buy the billets from Japan.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:

Oh, by the way, What is a 10MPG X wind?

Not very fuel efficient as far as cross winds go.

OH, BS the best glass is Schott and it is NOT made anywhere close to Japan.

Zeiss, Swaro and Schmidt make their own lenses and the glass is NOT from Japan.

Calling someone a racist because he doesn't agree with you is typical of some jerk like Jesse Jackson.

Anyone who would compare a Bushnell with a Schmidt has a severe case of DNS.

Chuckling that all you "experts" missed that the scope on the 338 RUM was an IOR 4-28x56 that is a SFP scope. Probably don't even know how IOR came to be.......

Read this and be "confused by the facts". You will note that Schmidt is under contract for TWO different scopes.

http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/news/news.html

As for Nightforce, they have an excellent explanation of FFP vs SFP scopes. If you can read, it will be clear why FFP scopes are the choice of almost all military that uses variable scopes.

A reticle in the First Focal Plane is placed at the front of the erector assembly and remains in the same visual proportion to the target across the riflescopes entire magnification range. While the proportions of the reticle will appear to change when adjusting the magnification, in reality the reticles values are remaining in proportion to the target. This is beneficial for rapid ranging and holdovers at various distances and magnifications.

A reticle in the Second Focal Plane is placed at the rear of the erector assembly will appear to stay constant in size across the magnification range. The reticle subtensions are set at a pre-determined magnification change as magnification changes. Simple math can be used to determine the change in values, yet the reticle line size will remain consistent for a fine aiming point regardless of magnification.


Insofar as the $20,000 XM3 ...... someone else said it better:
"You can get a Sako TRG in .338 Lapua magnum with Zeiss optics (that provenly beat the nightforce in quality) for that price and we'll slap a Tikka T3 tactical for the short range job, still below the 20k price tag... "

Hope that poor jarhead has his NF set at the "right" power or all his knob twiddling will be a waste of time. If he has the 3-12 S&B, that would not be a problem.

And no boys, I don't hate Nightforce, in fact I have one (2.5-10x32) on my 300 Winmag R1. At ethical big game hunting ranges, it works just fine, has an excellent illumination system, is very rugged and when sighted in @ 200 yards, has a POI that will take any big game to 400 yds with nothing beyond aim and shoot.

Also has very nice wood and handles like a 28 bore shotgun.

Wow, you sound like you have been there and done that! Just a question, where did you get your 0317 or Your 8541 mos? Or was it Army with the 4B desingnate? You sound like an expert on long range sniping! Say, what is the round we used in the M40A5 or the M24s or XM2010? Where did you do to school? Benning? SD? Did you know that the guys in the Teams are using SFP NightForce? You know that all the XM3 are coming with NightForce scopes? Did you know that's because the marines had a chance to play with them and loved them! I would like you to go up and ask someone like Chris Kyle and ask if he was at the right power! News flash sport! S/B is not the end all be all for shooting distinct. Oh for the argument that it has to be FFP scope, the average guy in here will never learn to range off the retical. They will reach down, pull out there laser and range it. As for glass, just look into the research field and see where the majority of the microscope glass is made these days. Here is a hint, you go west to get there!


[/QUOTE]Hope that poor jarhead has his NF set at the "right" power all his knob twiddling will be a waste of time. If he has the 3-12 S&B, that would not be a problem.[/QUOTE]

Oh! Just another thought, if German glass is SO much better, why is it that not one of the Army AMU rifles have a Zeiss/SB on it? Oh wait, that's right, it's Nightforce. I'll say it again, because it's German, does not make it better!

Yeah that glass made West of here is the same place all the tin wind up toys were made too.

It's really interesting what you can learn when you actually call the company rather than run your mouth.

The NF B.E.A.S.T (obviously to compete with the S&B contract) is a FIRST focal plane scope and the glass comes from (drum roll) Germany.

http://nightforceoptics.com/beast/

The rest are sourced from Japan.

Should be clear then that when NF decided to go head to head with the top of the line Euro scopes they adopted (drum roll) a FFP design and (drum roll) German glass.

Zeiss, Swaro, S&B and now one NF appear to be on even ground.

Notice that no one has yet figured out how IOR came to be or why the military is paying $20,000 for a short range (7.62) sniper rifle with a bolt on it. Does anyone doubt a 7.62 AR cannot be as accurate and quiet ? The cost with S&B, on a govt contract, probably about 5 grand AND 20 shots if you need them right now. 1/2 MOA guarantee ..... should be sufficient.

http://www.lesbaer.com/AR308.html

Same kind of military genius that put the cutoff on the 1903 Springfield.

Doubt any of the "experts" have seen what a well tuned SAKO Mosin with modern optics and match grade ammo can do. Suffice to say as well as that $20,000 POS for about $1500 all up. Probably outrange it too as 18.5" is not the best length for a 7.62.

I'd love to have a really fine shot with this rifle (that is older than most of you experts) go up against the $20,000 hammer @ 1000 yards.



Heavier bullet starting faster always wins or does the Army have a secret reason for converting their 7.62s to 300 WinMag ?
Probably my DPMS LR 300 SAUM would kick the butt of the $20,000 hammer and be able to put more lead downrange a lot faster.

quote:

Originally posted by artshaw:
Yeah that glass made West of here is the same place all the tin wind up toys were made too.

It's really interesting what you can learn when you actually call the company rather than run your mouth.

The NF B.E.A.S.T (obviously to compete with the S&B contract) is a FIRST focal plane scope and the glass comes from (drum roll) Germany.

http://nightforceoptics.com/beast/

The rest are sourced from Japan.

Should be clear then that when NF decided to go head to head with the top of the line Euro scopes they adopted (drum roll) a FFP design and (drum roll) German glass.

Zeiss, Swaro, S&B and now one NF appear to be on even ground.

Notice that no one has yet figured out how IOR came to be or why the military is paying $20,000 for a short range (7.62) sniper rifle with a bolt on it. Does anyone doubt a 7.62 AR cannot be as accurate and quiet ? The cost with S&B, on a govt contract, probably about 5 grand AND 20 shots if you need them right now. 1/2 MOA guarantee ..... should be sufficient.

http://www.lesbaer.com/AR308.html

Same kind of military genius that put the cutoff on the 1903 Springfield.

Doubt any of the "experts" have seen what a well tuned SAKO Mosin with modern optics and match grade ammo can do. Suffice to say as well as that $20,000 POS for about $1500 all up. Probably outrange it too as 18.5" is not the best length for a 7.62.

I'd love to have a really fine shot with this rifle (that is older than most of you experts) go up against the $20,000 hammer @ 1000 yards.



Heavier bullet starting faster always wins or does the Army have a secret reason for converting their 7.62s to 300 WinMag ?
Probably my DPMS LR 300 SAUM would kick the butt of the $20,000 hammer and be able to put more lead downrange a lot faster.

Holly Cow! You get this!

I award you!