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Rim Fire Velocity And Accuracy With Progressively Shorter Barrels
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Found a BRNO 452 2E rifle, have no idea what its life has been, as we got it second hand.

Looks like a perfect candiudate for this test.

So, I have installed a ZEISS CONQUEST V4 4-16 scope on it.

I selected the following ammo, hoping to cover all available velocities.

1. ELEY TENEX
2. ELEY RABBIT
3. ELEY SPORT
4. ELEY CONTACT
5. LAPUA MIDAS PLUS
6. RWS RIFLE MATCH
7. RWS TARGET RIFLE
8. CCI STANDARD
9. WINCHESTER SUPER X HP
10. CCI STINGER.

I will shoot it at 50 yards.

5, 5-shot groups.

Cut off one inch, and shoot again.

Until we end up with a bolt action pistol!

The rifle has a 25 inch barrel, and velocities at this length are:

1. LAPUA MIDAS PLUS 1017 FPS
2. CCI STINGER 1542 FPS
3. RWS RIFLE MATCH 1036 FPS
4. RWS TARGET RIFLE 1053 FPS
5. CCI STANDARD 1034 FPS
6. ELEY TENEX 1000 FPS
7. ELEY RABBIT 1194 FPS
8. ELEY SPORT 963 FPS
9. ELEY CONTACT 1035 FPS
10. WINCHESTER SUPER X HP 1234 FPS


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Cool can't wait for the results thanks Saeed
 
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Accuracy at 25 inches.

Average of 5, 5-shot groups

1. LAPUA 0.3546
2. STINGER 0.6252
3. RWS RIFLE MATCH 0.4288
4. RWS TARGET RIFLE 0.5520
5. CCI STANDARD 0.6550
6. ELEY TENEX 0.3722
7. ELEY RABBIT 0.3726
8. ELEY SPORT 0.4148
9. ELEY CONTACT 0.5460
10. WIMNCHESTER SUPER X 0.7932


Velocity at 24 inches.

1. LAPUA 1005 FPS
2. STINGER 1540 FPS
3. RWS RM 1043 FPS
4. RWS TR 1050 FPS
5. CCI STANDARD 951 FPS
6. ELEY TENEX 1009 FPS
7. ELEY RABBIT 1197 FPS
8. ELEY SPORT 1034 FPS
9. ELEY CONTACT 1048 FPS
10. WINCHESTER SUPER X 1257 FPS


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We are down to 23 inches now.

I thought I will keep track of the average velocity of all loads at each length.

Might give us an idea of what is going on.

25 inches average was 1110 fps
24 inches average was 1113 fps
23 inches average was 1127 fps.

This is taken from the velocity average of all loads.

Accuracy at 24 inches.

Average of 5, 5-shot groups

1. LAPUA 0.4172
2. STINGER 0.5188
3. RWS RIFLE MATCH 0.4714
4. RWS TARGET RIFLE 0.5042
5. CCI STANDARD 0.9996
6. ELEY TENEX 0.4086
7. ELEY RABBIT 0.5520
8. ELEY SPORT 0.3964
9. ELEY CONTACT 0.7166
10. WINCHESTER SUPER X 0.7920

Velocity at 23 inches.

1. LAPUA 992 FPS
2. STINGER 1528 FPS
3. RWS RM 1038 FPS
4. RWS TR 1052 FPS
5. CCI STANDARD 1037 FPS
6. ELEY TENEX 1029 FPS
7. ELEY RABBIT 1211 FPS
8. ELEY SPORT 1049 FPS
9. ELEY CONTACT 1057 FPS
10. WINCHESTER SUPER X 1282 FPS


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25 inches average was 1110 fps
24 inches average was 1113 fps
23 inches average was 1127 fps
22 inches average was 1127 fps


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Thanks, Saeed - this will be a very informative thread


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
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25 inches average was 1110 fps
24 inches average was 1113 fps
23 inches average was 1127 fps
22 inches average was 1127 fps
21 inches average was 1130 fps


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Following are average of all velocities, and accuracy.

25 inches 1,110 fps 0.5114
24 inches 1,113 fps 0.5777
23 inches 1,127 fps 0.5365
22 inches 1,127 fps 0.5755
21 inches 1,130 fps 0.5539
20 inches 1,121 fps 0.5785
19 inches 1,129 fps

Don't read too much in the accuracy figures, as this can be thrown out by just one lot of ammo.

So far I have had 2 misfires, one from RWS and one from Eley Contact.

Both fired as they were rotated in the barrel and fired again.


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Are you re-crowning after every chop?


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Posts: 7673 | Location: Bloody Queensland where every thing is 20 years behind the rest of Australia! | Registered: 25 January 2001Reply With Quote
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thanks Saeed , I am looking forward to these .. btw, i have long felt that the barrel drag on a 22 is GROSSLY underestimate -- i expect 12-14 will be the sweet spot .. but, i am open to learning


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 36527 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakes:
Are you re-crowning after every chop?


Yes.

By hand.

To do this on the lathe would be rather more time consuming.

Frankly, I repair crowns by hand on other rifles, and it works.

For this test I cut the barrel with a hacksaw, file it glad, and crown it.

We are down to 18 inches this afternoon.

Average velocity for all ammo seems to be slightly higher.

Quite fun to shoot, except with some ammo.

Notably the Winchester Super X.

Some ammo shoot very well - ELEY Sport for instance.

And the action is getting very smooth too.

Originally was a bit stiff.

I don’t think it was shoot much when we got it.


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I forgot to mention, and may be some here might have an answer for this.

As the barrel was cut shorter, the point of impact moved down and to the right, always in the same direction.

But not by the same amount for every inch cut.

Someone here suggested it might be due to tension in the barrel??


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We are down to 15 inches.

Average speed is 1134 fps!!


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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
I forgot to mention, and may be some here might have an answer for this.

As the barrel was cut shorter, the point of impact moved down and to the right, always in the same direction.

But not by the same amount for every inch cut.

Someone here suggested it might be due to tension in the barrel??

Considering there are few if any rifle barrels where the bore is straight, it's most likely that each time you cut the barrel down the muzzle is simply pointing at a different location on the target.

Landy


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Posts: 30 | Location: Nebraska | Registered: 25 August 2007Reply With Quote
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I think you are right.

At 14 inch, it changed directions, and the point of impact went up!


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We are down to 12.5 inches - we have lost a bit in cutting.

Still, average velocity is 1135 fps at 12.5 inches!!

Which is basically the same all long.


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Here is an update on velocities.

First figure is at 25 inches, second is at 11.5 inches

1. Eley Tenex 1057 fps 1074 fps
2. Lapua Midas Plus 1037 fps 1026 fps
3. RWS Rifle Match 1046 fps 1043 fps
4. RWS Target Rifle 1042 fps 1041 fps
5. CCI Standard 1019 fps 985 fps

6. Eley Sport 1040 fps 1038 fps
7. Eley Contact 1080 fps 1073 fps
8. Eley Rabbit 1198 fps 1172 fps
9. Winchester Super X 1260 fps 1286 fps
10. CCI Stinger 1514 fps 1503 fps


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Saeed,
these reports are SUPER interesting --
1: barrel drag is real, but not likely important
2: some loads do better in long barrels, most, it doesn't matter
3: some loads are going to be WAY better for short barrels

to me, it appears that the cci standard is better for rifles - but the difference is minimal

when you get down to the pistol lengths, i expect it will churn the pot!


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 36527 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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10 inches.

TENEX 1033 FPS
LAPUA 1024 FPS
RWS RIFLE MATCH 1030 FPS
RWS TARGET RIFLE 1062 FPS
CCI STANDARD 1009 FPS
ELEY SPORT 1040 FPS
ELEY CONTACT 1060 FPS
ELEY RABBIT 1194 FPS
WINCHESTER SUPER X 1234 FPS
STINGER 1453 FPS

Not what I had expected at this short barrel.


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The Stinger is the surpriser to me.
 
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Great work Saaed.
I find this all very interesting.
 
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And the testing goes on.

Thanks
 
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At 9 inches we are beginning to see some reduction in velocities.


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Here is the velocities at 8 inches.

1. TENEX 1014 FPS
2. LAPUA 998 FPS
3. RWS RIFLE MATCH 977 FPS
4. RWS TARGET RIFLE 995 FPS
5. CCI STANDARD 981 FPS
6. ELEY SPORT 1007 FPS
7. ELEY CONTACT 1061 FPS
8. ELEY RABBIT 1136 FPS
9. WINCHESTER SUPER X 1243 FPS
10. CCI STINGER 1393 FPS

Funny part is the Eley CONTACT. It is supposed to be subsonic for autos.


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Very interesting report not only from the accuracy/velocity perspective but also it shows you generally get what you pay for with .22 RF ammo. The exception being the CCI Stinger ammo. That rifle seems to like it.


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Stopped at 6 inches.

I will post full details later, but here is how it with all the ammo decreasing 1 inch at a time.

TENEX MIDAS RWS RM RWS TR CCI ST SPORT CONTACT RABBIT SUPER X STINGER

1000 1017 1036 1053 1034 963 1035 1194 1234 1542
1009 1005 1043 1050 951 1034 1048 1197 1257 1540
1029 992 1038 1052 1037 1049 1057 1211 1282 1528

1002 1002 1040 1059 1017 1050 1045 1262 1264 1537
1042 1021 1035 1062 987 1045 1054 1218 1280 1555
1036 1002 1044 1037 984 1049 1061 1208 1278 1518

1057 1037 1046 1042 1019 1040 1080 1198 1260 1514
1047 1057 1022 1053 991 1054 1079 1170 1262 1539
1012 1049 1054 1077 1037 1049 1073 1206 1297 1537

1018 1048 1029 1042 1031 1063 1074 1207 1295 1501
1051 1048 1029 1042 1031 1063 1074 1207 1295 1501
1047 1043 1049 1066 1027 1043 1074 1215 1274 1532

1061 1032 1062 1063 1033 1050 1070 1186 1281 1514
1074 1026 1043 1041 985 1038 1073 1172 1286 1503
1008 1027 1052 1046 998 1038 1077 1165 1262 1498

1033 1024 1030 1062 1009 1040 1060 1194 1235 1453
996 1003 1014 1039 986 1021 1058 1176 1242 1452
1014 998 977 995 981 1007 1061 1136 1243 1393

978 1001 1017 1003 986 1004 1004 1117 1231 1392
967 950 955 997 956 978 1012 1097 1172 1300


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Thank YOU, Saeed.

Guys, if it is a little confusing, read this as VERTICAL columns - up to down, rather than left to right


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 36527 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Thank YOU, Saeed.

Guys, if it is a little confusing, read this as VERTICAL columns - up to down, rather than left to right


Yes, Jeff you are right.

Formatting did not seem to work.

Ammo on top corresponding to the columns below in the same order.

I will post the rest of the targets tomorrow.

Please take the accuracy below 10 inches with a large dose of salt.

Very difficult to shoot accurately.

I thought of making a special rest, then decided against it, as my main concern was the velocities.

Velocities were average of 5 shots.


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Saeed,
Can you be talked into shooting this all the way down to 1" ?? or just jumping to 4,2 inches?

that will answer all the pistol questions, as well


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 36527 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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Sorry my friend.

Too late.

Barrel taken off the action, as my intention originally to see when the velocity drops off.

And we have found that already.

Actually, I though it might get slower earlier, but, as the old saying goes, the proof of the cake is in the eating.

We have quite a lot of people shooting 22 rim fire competition here - lots of them use open sights.

So they have asked if I could run tests on different ammo available here using my machine rest.

I might do that as it takes the shooter completely out, and one might get an idea of the intrinsic accuracy of the ammo.

I have a Walther KK 200 barreled action already installed on the machine rest.

This should be a good test bed.


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Wow impressive. Thanks for posting all of this.
 
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This concludes this test.

Barrel length is measured from the bolt face of a closed bolt.


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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Sorry my friend.

Too late.

Barrel taken off the action, as my intention originally to see when the velocity drops off.

And we have found that already.

Actually, I though it might get slower earlier, but, as the old saying goes, the proof of the cake is in the eating.

We have quite a lot of people shooting 22 rim fire competition here - lots of them use open sights.

So they have asked if I could run tests on different ammo available here using my machine rest.

I might do that as it takes the shooter completely out, and one might get an idea of the intrinsic accuracy of the ammo.

I have a Walther KK 200 barreled action already installed on the machine rest.

This should be a good test bed.



Now this is the test I'm interested in seeing. Hope you'll be published these results also.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by cdsx:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Sorry my friend.

Too late.

Barrel taken off the action, as my intention originally to see when the velocity drops off.

And we have found that already.

Actually, I though it might get slower earlier, but, as the old saying goes, the proof of the cake is in the eating.

We have quite a lot of people shooting 22 rim fire competition here - lots of them use open sights.

So they have asked if I could run tests on different ammo available here using my machine rest.

I might do that as it takes the shooter completely out, and one might get an idea of the intrinsic accuracy of the ammo.

I have a Walther KK 200 barreled action already installed on the machine rest.

This should be a good test bed.



Now this is the test I'm interested in seeing. Hope you'll be published these results also.


I have already started this, and it is quite an eye opener.

I am shooting at 50 yards, once that is done, I will repeat at 100 yards.

I don’t feel so bad now when some groups are bad. clap


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Posts: 61596 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Funny how one seems to have a stock of 22 rim fire ammo!

Called around, and found about 70 different types of 22 Long Rifle ammo.

I will shoot all of them at both 50 and 100 yards.

Stay tuned for the results!


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