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Hunter Gets His Sheep Kill But Loses It To Rescue
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https://www.nationalparkstrave...erve-loses-it-rescue



Hunter Gets His Kill At Wrangell-St. Elias National Park And Preserve, But Loses It To Rescue


By NPT Staff - September 2nd, 2020 2:00am



An Alaska man who killed a Dall sheep in Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Preserve wound up forfeiting the kill after he needed to be rescued from a precarious perch on a scree cliff.

According to a report from the park, the 47-year-old hunter from Wasilla, Alaska, got stuck last Saturday when he descended a slope near the confluence of the Nabesna River and Totschunda Creek in Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Preserve in attempt to recover a sheep that he harvested. He sled down the slope a ways, and became stranded on the cliff, the report said.

The man was uninjured and used an DeLorme inReach device to send an emergency message and report his coordinates to the International Emergency Response Coordination Center.

The National Park Service was notified and requested assistance from the Alaska Rescue Coordination Center (AKRCC) at Joint Base Elmendorf Richardson. AKRCC dispatched an Army helicopter from Ft. Wainwright that arrived on scene at approximately 9 p.m. Saturday. An attempt to hoist the hunter from the slope was unsuccessful.

It was determined that pararescuemen (PJs) from the 212th Rescue Squadron would be needed to rescue the hunter from the slope. A HH-60G Pave Hawk from the 210th Rescue Squadron was dispatched from JBER and successfully extracted the hunter at approximately 6:45 a.m. on Sunday. The hunter was transported to the NPS Ranger Station at Slana where he was united with his family.

The harvested sheep was salvaged and surrendered to the Alaska Wildlife Troopers.

"The hunter could not retain it because he was aided by the use of a helicopter," a park representative said Tuesday.

Under Alaska's hunting regulations, there's a bag limit of one sheep per year per hunter, so this man will have to wait until 2021 to hunt another in the state.


Kathi

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"The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page."
 
Posts: 8222 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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Love those technicalities. I think of the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law in reading this. But, hey, who knows.
 
Posts: 15845 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Am I reading this correctly?

He shot the ram all fair and square. No problem. He lost the ram because he had to be rescued?

Wow is all I can say.
 
Posts: 10600 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Love those technicalities. I think of the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law in reading this. But, hey, who knows.


Right. Seems to me surrendering the ram under rescue conditions is a bit harsh, assuming it was really necessary to rescue the hunter. We don't know all the facts but it doesn't appear on the surface that the guy was trying to gain advantage by using a chopper.
 
Posts: 7825 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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What were his other options ?


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
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Posts: 3832 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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The big worry. Did he have to pay for the rescue???
 
Posts: 286 | Registered: 11 March 2006Reply With Quote
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Chickenshit! The guy falls down a scree field after he legally shoots a sheep, and they take it away.Best of luck to the hunter.
 
Posts: 411 | Location: texas | Registered: 29 March 2008Reply With Quote
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Glad he's ok, but to me I am also glad to see the ram forfeited. Killing a legal animal in the high country is one thing, but being able to recover it is a whole other question. You need to be sure you will be able to recover it safely before you pull the trigger, even if that means you leave the mountain with an uncut tag.

In September 2018 I sat for hours less than 400 yards from an enormous billy up on the mountains near Seward on a hard to get draw tag. I could have killed him any time I wanted. But even if he didn't plunge off the side of the cliff while dying, I would have had a hell of a time reaching him. I could have probably reached him though. There was just no way I was going to be able to scale those cliff ledges while carrying a pack loaded with meat, hide and head. Since they don't charge the victims for the emergency e-vac with S&R in AK, I am really glad that if you call and they have to use a helicopter you don't get to keep your animal. Otherwise, why wouldn't you shoot a sheep or goat in country you have no business doing so, as you can just "fear for your life" and get a whirlybird to do the work for you?
 
Posts: 204 | Location: Anchorage, AK | Registered: 14 February 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by justanotherhunter:
Glad he's ok, but to me I am also glad to see the ram forfeited. K

In September 2018 I sat for hours less than 400 yards from an enormous billy up on the mountains near Seward on a hard to get draw tag. I could have killed him any time I wanted. But even if he didn't plunge off the side of the cliff while dying, I would have had a hell of a time reaching him. I could have probably reached him though. There was just no way I was going to be able to scale those cliff ledges while carrying a pack loaded with meat, hide and head. Since they don't charge the victims for the emergency e-vac with S&R in AK, I am really glad that if you call and they have to use a helicopter you don't get to keep your animal. Otherwise, why wouldn't you shoot a sheep or goat in country you have no business doing so, as you can just "fear for your life" and get a whirlybird to do the work for you?


I'm glad too. If his life was saved he probably is pretty happy and the sheep should seem like small potatoes.

I had the exact same scenario as you on the Kenai Peninsula in 2000 on a fly in solo goat hunt. Saw plenty nice ones in rifle range each day. I knew if they died in place there was no way I could get them down, and if they took one step after being hit they would tumble into oblivion. So I had a very expensive and arduous goat watching trip, which was still very cool and one of my favorite hunts. I mean, I got to hang out with goats above the tree line in sunny weather with amazing views of the ocean and just watch them.

Just the other day I read about some rafters that hiked 11.5 miles from Girdwood to the Twenty Mile River, didn't like the look of the water, and called the troopers for a helicopter ride because they were "too tired" to hike back despite having 5 hours of daylight left and summer weather. The last sheep hunt I did had a 12 mile approach to where we started climbing, and we did that twice (48 miles plus the climbs). Imagine discovering you had "chest pains", a "sprained ankle", or sore back, etc and being able to just call up a "free" govt helo to fly you out. If young fit rafters with 6lb pack rafts will do that I'm sure middle-aged moose and sheep hunters with 140lb packs would do so in droves.


DRSS

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Posts: 708 | Location: Big Timber, MT | Registered: 14 November 2004Reply With Quote
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SIMPLE,for answer for the concrete jungle residents in the lower 48-

USE OF A HELICOPTER TO TRANSPORT A HUNTER & HIS/HER HARVEST IS ILLEGAL IN ALASKA.

The IDIOT from Wasilly,AK. should have been prepared or had the slightest CLUE what he was doing to NOT put him in that situation.


Keep'em in the X ring,
DAN

www.accu-tig.com
 
Posts: 363 | Location: Fairbanks,AK. | Registered: 30 October 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Love those technicalities. I think of the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law in reading this. But, hey, who knows.


Stupid busy bodies employed by the government never disappoint.


www.accuratereloading.com
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Posts: 53962 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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How many internet research sheep hunters just checked that location they mentioned??


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Posts: 1343 | Location: Big lake alaska | Registered: 11 April 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
How many internet research sheep hunters just checked that location they mentioned??


I've got the coordinates if anybody is interested. Wink
 
Posts: 88 | Registered: 02 September 2015Reply With Quote
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I have read this a couple of times. It is not clear to me why he had to be rescued. If he was not injured as the article indicates, why did he have to be rescued?
 
Posts: 10600 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
I have read this a couple of times. It is not clear to me why he had to be rescued. If he was not injured as the article indicates, why did he have to be rescued?


Sounded like he got himself stuck on the mountainside and chose to call the calvary vs. chancing a fall. But I don't know anything you don't know.


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Posts: 7029 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 05 February 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Frostbit:
quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
I have read this a couple of times. It is not clear to me why he had to be rescued. If he was not injured as the article indicates, why did he have to be rescued?


Sounded like he got himself stuck on the mountainside and chose to call the calvary vs. chancing a fall. But I don't know anything you don't know.


That’s what I thought .
 
Posts: 10600 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Maybe one of the AK Guides can shed some light for me. This wording is pretty poor. From the AK F&G regs, note the exception.

The following is prohibited:

"Using a helicopter for hunting or for transporting hunters, hunting gear, game meat, trophies, or any equipment used to pursue or retrieve game, EXCEPT helicopter use may be authorized to rescue hunters, gear, or game in a life-threatening situation."

The wording of the above lacks clarity "may be authorized" implies it may not be authorized, also.

1) If "may not" is a possibility then how does one get authorized?

2) If it only may be authorized in life threatening situations, it would seem absurd that you have to get authorization while your life is being threatened.

3) the word "rescue" is being associated with hunters, gear, and game. Would seem pretty poorly worded because a hunter is not going to be "rescuing" game, he is going to be "recovering" game.

4) If recovery of game is what they meant, then why did he have to forfeit it?

5) If recovery of game is not what they meant, then what did they mean by "rescue game".

Are we missing information in the article? Was there some investigation that AK F&G said "No, your life was not really in danger and you used this as a ruse because you did not want to pack it out yourself"

It would seem very odd that regulations are enforced in the following manner "if your life is endanger you can call in a helicopter to rescue you and recovery your equipment and game but regardless, you forfeit your game."


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9313 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Mountain hunters call that being "rimrocked". To be avoided at all costs.
 
Posts: 1210 | Registered: 17 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Over the 40 years I have been guiding in Alaska I have never known of the trophy being flown out with the rescue helicopter. In most cases even the rifle and other hunting gear is left.
This past season we had a young man working for us who had been rescued when the entire bluf he was crossing sloughed off the mountain, breaking his leg and stranding him. Fortunately he had his delorme with him and the PJ's were able to extract him but left his gear. He had some top quality friends however who were able to make their way down the mountain a few days later and retrieve all his gear and rifle.


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 3832 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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Phil,

OK - but what do you think the text of the regulation means?


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9313 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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The intent, and application is nothing having to do with hunting can be flown in or out with a helicopter.
The exception is that the hunter can be flown out under life threatening onditions, but all gear and game must remain and be retrieved by legal means.


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 3832 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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I’m glad to see the InReach service does what I pay it to do.
 
Posts: 6957 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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I’ve been rimrocked a few times but thankfully never impossibly rimrocked. Yes hunting rims in rocky country takes a bit of luck on top of a bit of skill.
Worst for me was trying to work a bench in a very big Colorado canyon and ran out off bench. Turning around was possible but so was darkness... instead I found a crevice that I could see daylight up, put my old surplus 8x57 on my back, tied a 30 piece of paracord to my beloved dog and pushed her up the crack in front of me. Near the top her scrambling out was the help I needed to get another hand hold. Not advising that was a smart choice but it was the one that worked.


"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
 
Posts: 1991 | Location: Where God breathes life into the Amber Waves of Grain and owns the cattle on a thousand hills. | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
How many internet research sheep hunters just checked that location they mentioned??


I did Thanks!

The law as written helps prevent hunters from taking a shot at animals they cant retrieve. Have passed on lots of game I could have killed but iffy to retrieve. I don't want to hunt with others that would take that kind of shots and put others at risk.


kk alaska
 
Posts: 890 | Registered: 06 February 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by kk alaska:
quote:
Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
How many internet research sheep hunters just checked that location they mentioned??


I did Thanks!

The law as written helps prevent hunters from taking a shot at animals they cant retrieve. Have passed on lots of game I could have killed but iffy to retrieve. I don't want to hunt with others that would take that kind of shots and put others at risk.


Makes sense to me. I passed one in August for that very reason .
 
Posts: 10600 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Love those technicalities. I think of the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law in reading this. But, hey, who knows.

Stupid busy bodies employed by the government never disappoint.


Totally agree.


"Only accurate rifles are interesting."
 
Posts: 360 | Location: Midwest, USA | Registered: 01 March 2007Reply With Quote
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I guess I see it two ways. And agree with the spirit of laws vs letter.
I also know from my mountain hunting that sometimes even when an animal is shot on recoverable ground, things dont go to plan and they reach an unrecoverable situation. But as always good on you guys who have passed up shots for that reason!
My example is a situation a mate of mine was involved in. He and a workmate were Kayak fishing off the coast near here when a sudden wind change and storm flicked up. In a very short time they were blown 4-5 mile off shore and with dark approaching and 10 foot chop on top of the swell and 40 knot winds, they called for emergency help. the coast guard came to their rescue and had every right to leave behind their kayaks and rods and the fish. but because it put no one at extra risk they retrieved the lot and even put the fish on ice back at base for the guys.
I dont know all the details from this case but too often, people dont take regard to the spirit of law and say, ok, this was not the intent, lets work with this.
Of course the first most important thing is the guy was rescued safely.
 
Posts: 1334 | Location: North Island NZ | Registered: 21 July 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Love those technicalities. I think of the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law in reading this. But, hey, who knows.


Stupid busy bodies employed by the government never disappoint.


I guess we all see things from a different perspective, but the fact that they had to make an additional flight to retrieve the sheep makes me feel like seizing it was warranted.

Look at the alternative: they spend all that money and put the crew at risk, field dress the sheep and then what.... delivere the sheep to the hunters house? That seems a bit over the top to me.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 5708 | Location: The North Slope, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by JBrown:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Love those technicalities. I think of the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law in reading this. But, hey, who knows.


Stupid busy bodies employed by the government never disappoint.


I guess we all see things from a different perspective, but the fact that they had to make an additional flight to retrieve the sheep makes me feel like seizing it was warranted.

Look at the alternative: they spend all that money and put the crew at risk, field dress the sheep, cape it, and then what.... delivere the sheep to the hunters house with a ribbon and bow? That seems a bit over the top to me.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 5708 | Location: The North Slope, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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The No Helicopters for hunting rule has been been in Alaskan statutes for many years and anyone who looks at game regulations prior to hunting should be well aware of it.


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 3832 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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So, would it have been legal for him to tell the helicopter crew to leave the animal (and gear) then hired a crew of good mountaineers to go in and retrieve it later?

Sounds like that has been done with gear before, and was ok?

What about the animal?

Frankly from what I know about flying in those circumstances, if I had been in charge, no way would I have let an aircrew go up there just to pick up a sheep to donate the meat- fuel costs being what they are, that has to be one of the most expensive per pound “donations” known, and the risks (even if relatively low for mountain flying) just don’t seem reasonable for the government to do it in this situation.

Risk/reward just don’t balance here to me...
 
Posts: 6251 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:


Frankly from what I know about flying in those circumstances, if I had been in charge, no way would I have let an aircrew go up there just to pick up a sheep to donate the meat- fuel costs being what they are, that has to be one of the most expensive per pound “donations” known, and the risks (even if relatively low for mountain flying) just don’t seem reasonable for the government to do it in this situation.


You bring up some good questions, but your last point is the one that I wondered about. And I can’t really believe that it was about the 70 pounds of sheep meat. I would assume it was more about the horns. And as far as fuel costs, we the taxpayers are footing the bill.

And is it possible that the second “rescue” was used as a training?


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 5708 | Location: The North Slope, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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