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Any Offer Posted Here Which Mentions Tips Will Be Deleted!
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posted
Frankly, I am getting fed up with offers being posted where a tip is mentioned that it is not included.

A tip is up to the hunter to give if he feels like.

He does not need to be reminded of it.

Any hunt offer posted here where a tip or gratuity is mention as part of the offer will be deleted.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 58170 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Finally.....
Thanks.....
 
Posts: 9278 | Location: Texas... time to secede!! | Registered: 12 February 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Frankly, I am getting fed up with offers being posted where a tip is mentioned that it is not included.

A tip is up to the hunter to give if he feels like.

He does not need to be reminded of it.

Any hunt offer posted here where a tip or gratuity is mention as part of the offer will be deleted.


Good!
 
Posts: 2162 | Location: Utah | Registered: 23 February 2011Reply With Quote
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Picture of cal pappas
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Thanks for this, Saeed.
My last Zimbabwe PH begged and hinted for tips on his postings here, on the drive out from the airport, in emails prior to the hunt, etc.. Glad this will come to an end.
Cal
PS. What to do when a request for items from the states is followed by, "...and deduct it from my tip."


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
 
Posts: 7041 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Yesterday I looked at an offer here for a hunt in Spain.

And "tips are not included" was right there for all of us to make sure we never forget about it.

I deleted that offer, and posted the above.

It has become rather silly of some outfitters and PHs offering hunts and making sure no one ever forgets about included a large sum of money for "tips".

Actually, this sounds more like bloody blackmail to me than anything else.

We went to a fishing harbor here in Dubai looking for a boat to hire for a fishing trip.

We looked at several, and one owned and manned by two South Africans, had a printed notice prominently displayed in the cockpit saying "IT IS CUSTOMARY TO PAY A 15% TIP".

As you can imagine, they did not get our business.

And I told them why.

Went with a local man and his crew, who insisted on paying for the coffee we had at the harbor coffee shop while discussing our trip.

I asked him about "extras".

He said "you pay for all the extra food and drinks you have asked for, and the price we have agreed on. Not a Dirham more. And I appreciate your business"


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 58170 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
PS. What to do when a request for items from the states is followed by, "...and deduct it from my tip."


If I hadn't already sent the PH a deposit I think I would have cancelled my trip at that point.

A big tu2 to Saeed. This whole tipping thing in Africa has gotten way out of line.


Tom Z

NRA Life Member
 
Posts: 2087 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: 07 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Labman:
quote:
PS. What to do when a request for items from the states is followed by, "...and deduct it from my tip."


If I hadn't already sent the PH a deposit I think I would have cancelled my trip at that point.

A big tu2 to Saeed. This whole tipping thing in Africa has gotten way out of line.


I understand it is just as bad in the US too.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 58170 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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I see some are editing their posts and removing their tips request.
Cal


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
 
Posts: 7041 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
I see some are editing their posts and removing their tips request.
Cal


Good thing too.

Because if I see any mention of tips I will delete it.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 58170 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Tipping should be banned, period.


~Ann



 
Posts: 16682 | Location: The LOST Nation | Registered: 27 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Tips are tips. Give or don’t. Who cares.
If I send clients hunting and they ask me should they give one I always say only if you want to. None of my guys whom I send guests to ask and I wouldn’t be working with them if they did.
 
Posts: 539 | Location: England & Hungary | Registered: 07 June 2016Reply With Quote
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Saeed, I agree! Brian
 
Posts: 3106 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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My father and I went on a elk hunt a few years back. After a superb 10 days in the backcountry on horseback, we had a few chances but never long enough to pull the trigger.

At the end I tipped our guide and he was almost taken aback, he just said “but you didn’t get an elk”

I said you guys worked your butts off for 10 days and did everything you could to put us on an elk. Pulling the trigger is secondary to the experience and service is what the tips for.
 
Posts: 121 | Location: B.C. Canada  | Registered: 07 June 2016Reply With Quote
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You might single handedly change the course of direction on this thing for good.

Or at least make a dent in it.

thank you
 
Posts: 7402 | Registered: 10 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Good on you, Saeed. tu2
 
Posts: 1451 | Location: Alberta/Namibia | Registered: 29 November 2004Reply With Quote
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very good direction and action.

thank you.
 
Posts: 1518 | Location: Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada. | Registered: 21 May 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by Labman:
quote:
PS. What to do when a request for items from the states is followed by, "...and deduct it from my tip."


If I hadn't already sent the PH a deposit I think I would have cancelled my trip at that point.

A big tu2 to Saeed. This whole tipping thing in Africa has gotten way out of line.


I understand it is just as bad in the US too.


Not sure if we are the idiots that started it or what, but it is rampant.

I belong to a hunt lottery called Sportsmans Sweepstakes. The outfit that runs it requires that any trip you win, that you tip 10-20%.

It cost $300 a year to join, and if you win they want 10-20%.

I reckon, I'll tip $30-60. To me that is 10-20% of what I paid for the trip.
 
Posts: 7402 | Registered: 10 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Having been hunting for many years, with several outfitters and professional hunters.

Not a single one of them has ever mentioned tips.

And I bet the majority of outfitters and Phs we have today are no different.

It is the uncouth few who seem to make a point of making sure one needs to factor in tips.

Those are the ones my post directed to, and they should know what we all think of their undesirable attitude.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 58170 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Saeed:
Do yo think there is any corelation between the success of a PH and his view towards asking/hinting for tips?

I seem to notice the better PHs with higher income don't nickel and dime the hunters whereas the lower income PHs with low cost hunts seem to do so; that including the relentless asking for tips.

Just curious as to your take.
Cal


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
 
Posts: 7041 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
Saeed:
Do yo think there is any corelation between the success of a PH and his view towards asking/hinting for tips?

I seem to notice the better PHs with higher income don't nickel and dime the hunters whereas the lower income PHs with low cost hunts seem to do so; that including the relentless asking for tips.

Just curious as to your take.
Cal


I doubt it.

There are people who are just born crooks, in one way or another.

And certain people use their heads to find the right people to deal with.

Others could not careless.

Some only look at the cheapest price on offer.

One of the most idiotic things I have heard here was someone suggesting that one should never hunt with the same PH twice!

His excuse was that the PH is "no friend" of yours.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 58170 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Funniest case i kno of is a Canadian outfitter who sell his Big Horn hunt fro $67,000 and directly asks for a 10% tip.

I found it outrageous.

montero
 
Posts: 862 | Location: Madrid-Spain | Registered: 03 July 2000Reply With Quote
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.

Well done Saeed! A good decision.....

100 %


"Up the ladders and down the snakes!"
 
Posts: 1786 | Location: South Africa & Europe | Registered: 10 February 2014Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by montero:
Funniest case i kno of is a Canadian outfitter who sell his Big Horn hunt fro $67,000 and directly asks for a 10% tip.

I found it outrageous.

montero

I don't consider it funny, I think that it is outrageous!
This past January I was talking with a British Columbia outfitter at a sports show about a Stone Sheep hunt.

Everything was looking good until he gave me his price sheet:
Base price of the sheep hunt = $38,000
Add a sheep harvest fee = 10,000
Add base camp transportation = 1,450
Add GST (Gov't tax) = 6%
Add gratuity (15% of base) = 5,700
Add guide of your choice = 1,000
Add BC Hunting License = 200
Add BC Sheep License = 680
Add BC Hunters Preservation
Fund = 200
Add BC Gov't Harvest Fee = 250

Then a 50% payment was required to reserve the hunt, and
Payments are Non-Refundable

I realize that outfitters have high expenses that they have to cover, but it looked like this hunt was nickel and dimed to death.

Maybe if I was Tom Brady and just given a $30 million a year contract this hunt would be pocket change, but to a guy that killed 3 Montana Bighorn rams on DIY solo hunts that each cost me a $25 tag and a tank of gas, I found that hunt outrageous.


NRA Endowment Life Member
 
Posts: 1518 | Location: Boz Angeles, MT | Registered: 14 February 2006Reply With Quote
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Saeed,

I think your not allowing for the hunters that really don't know that a tip is customary. NOT required but customary! Not knowing about tips could put the hunter in a very uncomfortable position just because he/she was ignorant. The AR crowd is far more informed than the general guided hunt newbie in my experience. I think it's just fair to let folks know what the WHOLE story is so they can adjust their budget accordingly.

Mark


MARK H. YOUNG
MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES
7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110
Office 702-848-1693
Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156
E-mail markttc@msn.com
Website: myexclusiveadventures.com
Skype: markhyhunter
Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716
 
Posts: 12224 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by buffybr:
quote:
Originally posted by montero:
Funniest case i kno of is a Canadian outfitter who sell his Big Horn hunt fro $67,000 and directly asks for a 10% tip.

I found it outrageous.

montero



I don't consider it funny, I think that it is outrageous!
This past January I was talking with a British Columbia outfitter at a sports show about a Stone Sheep hunt.

Everything was looking good until he gave me his price sheet:
Base price of the sheep hunt = $38,000
Add a sheep harvest fee = 10,000
Add base camp transportation = 1,450
Add GST (Gov't tax) = 6%
Add gratuity (15% of base) = 5,700
Add guide of your choice = 1,000
Add BC Hunting License = 200
Add BC Sheep License = 680
Add BC Hunters Preservation
Fund = 200
Add BC Gov't Harvest Fee = 250

Then a 50% payment was required to reserve the hunt, and
Payments are Non-Refundable

I realize that outfitters have high expenses that they have to cover, but it looked like this hunt was nickel and dimed to death.

Maybe if I was Tom Brady and just given a $30 million a year contract this hunt would be pocket change, but to a guy that killed 3 Montana Bighorn rams on DIY solo hunts that each cost me a $25 tag and a tank of gas, I found that hunt outrageous.


That is precisely why I prefer Africa....
Tips are tips....

If I get asked for one, the answer is "zero".
 
Posts: 9278 | Location: Texas... time to secede!! | Registered: 12 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Should PHs, outfitters and agents be named for this tip business?

Also, while Saeed is to be commended for the no tip post policy, rest assured that, when an initial contact is made about a hunt, the tip hint will be provided.

"Saeed won't let me post this but tips are up to you. The camp staff needs the money so they will continue to work for me, your tip to me is your choice of course but I can give some guidelines, and can you bring me some fishing gear or some parts for an outboard and deduct it from my tip when you arrive."

The issue will go away here on AR, but will remain everywhere else, Sadly.

I gave my SA and Botswana extra on the tip issue and also my congratulations on the evening of the last day when I thanked them both for a good hunt and for not mentioning tips at all.


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
 
Posts: 7041 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
"Saeed won't let me post this but tips are up to you. The camp staff needs the money so they will continue to work for me, your tip to me is your choice of course but I can give some guidelines, and can you bring me some fishing gear or some parts for an outboard and deduct it from my tip when you arrive."



Cal quoted the above from someone.

Whoever that person is, he is a bloody liar.

I have not had anyone asking me if he could post this.

And to answer our friend Mark Young's question.

You are right.

It is customary to give tips - IF YOU WISH TO - and the amount is up to you.

Hinting that a tip of X% is customary is not acceptable.

This becomes a demand.

I have had experience of this on some places, never at a hunting camp.

When I go on holiday, which is what we are all talking about here, I go with the understanding that we have already agreed on the price I pay, and what I was promised for that price.

Trying to tell me that I MUST cough up any additional sum is not acceptable at all.

I have absolutely no problems telling whoever I encounter demanding this what I think.

And I pay NOTHING.

And they never see me again.

I think most people are happy to give a tip, if they receive exceptional service.

And I think not many wish to be kept reminded that they SHOULD tip at the end, regardless of what they got.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 58170 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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I wonder if some outfitters who post here will just begin adding 10-20% to their offered hunts? It would be almost impossible for the prospective hunter to know or not, year to year On second thought, maybe this was already happening and some outfitters were receiving additional $$$ in the form of tips, on top of an inflated offer?
 
Posts: 352 | Location: CO | Registered: 19 March 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by pinotguy:
I wonder if some outfitters who post here will just begin adding 10-20% to their offered hunts? It would be almost impossible for the prospective hunter to know or not, year to year On second thought, maybe this was already happening and some outfitters were receiving additional $$$ in the form of tips, on top of an inflated offer?


They can of course, and I hope they price themselves out of the market.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 58170 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by pinotguy:
I wonder if some outfitters who post here will just begin adding 10-20% to their offered hunts? It would be almost impossible for the prospective hunter to know or not, year to year On second thought, maybe this was already happening and some outfitters were receiving additional $$$ in the form of tips, on top of an inflated offer?


Unbeknown to you, some outfitters have been doing just that for years and clients have been none the wiser and possibly even dumber for giving a tip at the end of the hunt.
 
Posts: 1447 | Registered: 06 September 2008Reply With Quote
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Saeed,

We agree on a lot of this tip business. I think putting a tip % in the pricing as in the example of the sheep hunt is outrageous because it's not a tip at that point but part of the expected basic hunt. I also find it to be without class. Also basing tips on a percentage of the cost of the hunt is ridiculous. Does anyone believe on a 10 day buffalo hunt in say Tanzania that the PH and crew work 2-3 times harder than the crew on a similiar hunt in Zim. Given that why would the tip be 2-3 times as much in Tanzania than Zim. Finally I think we disagree about talking about tips during the hunt. I don't find it offensive if the PH discretely asks what I thing about a staff tip toward the end of the safari. His guidance is appreciated by me on this. On the other hand hinting about tips unsolicited throughout the safari is very bad form IMO.

Mark


MARK H. YOUNG
MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES
7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110
Office 702-848-1693
Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156
E-mail markttc@msn.com
Website: myexclusiveadventures.com
Skype: markhyhunter
Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716
 
Posts: 12224 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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if you need the extra 10% to pay your employee enough to keep him on the payroll, including it in the price is fine with me.

telling me a price [and what I'm taking a chance at receiving] and then asking for more to pay the staff at the end isn't cool.

we all understand hunting is hunting and there are no guarantee's, but we still put our boots on and go out the door each morning.
paying for a hunt is just paying rent with a chance to shoot something.
 
Posts: 4145 | Location: soda springs,id | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Saeed,

We agree on a lot of this tip business. I think putting a tip % in the pricing as in the example of the sheep hunt is outrageous because it's not a tip at that point but part of the expected basic hunt. I also find it to be without class. Also basing tips on a percentage of the cost of the hunt is ridiculous. Does anyone believe on a 10 day buffalo hunt in say Tanzania that the PH and crew work 2-3 times harder than the crew on a similiar hunt in Zim. Given that why would the tip be 2-3 times as much in Tanzania than Zim. Finally I think we disagree about talking about tips during the hunt. I don't find it offensive if the PH discretely asks what I thing about a staff tip toward the end of the safari. His guidance is appreciated by me on this. On the other hand hinting about tips unsolicited throughout the safari is very bad form IMO.

Mark


Mark,

My point is the PH should never mention tips!

Period.

If the client asks him what he would recommend, that another matter.

But the PH “discreetly” mentioning it is unacceptable!


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 58170 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Saeed,

I get your point but we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Cheers,

Mark


MARK H. YOUNG
MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES
7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110
Office 702-848-1693
Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156
E-mail markttc@msn.com
Website: myexclusiveadventures.com
Skype: markhyhunter
Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716
 
Posts: 12224 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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I don't think that a PH should EVER ask for a tip!

A tip should be an unexpected but nice gesture at the end of the hunt
 
Posts: 973 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 November 2019Reply With Quote
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“discreetly” and “Tip” in no way shape or form go together. All it is, is a guilt trip for the client?
 
Posts: 2162 | Location: Utah | Registered: 23 February 2011Reply With Quote
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It is simply a fact.Outfitters here and abroad expect a sizable tip for everyone they employ. They can claim otherwise but it is bullshit.
 
Posts: 10365 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 28 October 2006Reply With Quote
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Saeed: THANK YOU!! tu2
 
Posts: 16890 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of vlwtx348
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No one should demand, hint for, suggest or recommend a TIP.
If the outfitter needs more money to pay their camp staff, they should hike up their prices and pay their staff more.
The last place I went (and he advertises here regularly) didn't ask or hint for a tip, just matter-of-factly told me to pay it directly to him (so he could dole it out as pay throughout the year).
The PH got mad and started running his mouth when he found out I tipped the tracker directly. Said, "I won't have a tracker for 2 weeks." I bluntly told him that was his problem and should pay his staff more if my tip was enough they could take off work for 2 weeks.

My mechanic or HVAC repairman doesn't demand or expect a tip. And if a cop, judge or government employee here in the US hinted for one, I would promptly file a complaint.


_______________
DSC
NRA Benefactor

Wait just a minute....some drunk will be along to tell you that your post count is not high enough for you to have an opinion. Big Grin
 
Posts: 289 | Location: NE Texas | Registered: 12 February 2012Reply With Quote
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Picture of 450
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To become a member of Zimbabwes professional hunters and Guides association you have to sign a code of conduct that states you are not to solicit for tips of any kind. Clients are encouraged to report any such behaviour to the association and the offending member will be dealt with accordingly.


Adriaan Olivier
Wild Africa Safaris - Zimbabwe
info@wildafricasafaris.co.zw
+263 772 312 546 (Whats App)
 
Posts: 15 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 14 March 2013Reply With Quote
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