The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Travel Forum 4457 issueGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
I just flew in from Panama to Orlando. I was tagged in the electronic custom kiosk. There was an x on my printed receipt. I was told to go see a custom agent in line 2 for us citizens. When I got to the agent he checked their database and it said I was traveling with a firearm. I explained that was my last trip from July. He said the database showed I was traveling with a firearm. I said I was fishing in panama and did not have a firearm. It took him a good 15 minutes of trying to enter something in the computer and then he wrote something in my electronic kiosk printed receipt. He then shut down his line and came with me to collect my bag. He then took me the red line custom area and told me to wait till my name was called. After 10-15 min my name was called and the agent said I was taggged in the system as traveling with a firearm. He said he did not know why. He then asked me to but my bag in the X-ray machine and let me go. He again claimed to have no idea why the database said I was traveling with a firearm. I told him I had given the 4457 agent my exact flight itenary in July. He said he had no idea why it tagged me on this trip. All in all took 75 minutes. I have 2 additional trips this year in which I take firearms and 2 non firearm international trips. This sucks. I think customs is trying to figure out guns traveling in and out of the us but their databases might not be up to speed. I hope I am the only one with this issue. Mike | ||
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Mike, I've been flagged before. The first time was when my Córdoba flight to Santiago was delayed. I was to go SCL-DFW but missed that. LAN got me to MIA and would arrive DFW a few hours later than the original time. However, i got the XXX and sat in Miami waiting my turn for about two hours. Once my turn came, I was asked what seemed to be standard questions. During my time in the "room," it appeared that I was the only citizen of USA. I then got Global Entry and had a similar experience at DFW. I have not traveled with firearms since 2008. My GE has not worked for the Trusted Traveler program. I have been ok upon returning through customs, but something is not right. My immigration lawyers had raised the question and I have a redress number and it still is a cluster. I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills. Marcus Cady DRSS | |||
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Similar experience at DFW this past June, they couldn't find the serial number of the rifle on my 4457 anywhere in their computer...took about 50 minutes to get thru, and they never did find the number in their computer, even though I've taken the same rifle out of the country at least 10 times. Officer said "new system" and they weren't real familiar with it. Karl Evans | |||
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I didn't think they are supposed to retain your firearms serial number? I thought that was illegal? Don't they just read it off the 4457 and match it to the firearm? To me it appears that if they are "collecting" and storing your firearm serial number then it is becoming de facto gun registration. | |||
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that happens to all known blaser owners   | |||
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They don't retain your info. They check to match serial numbers, sign and stamp it. Sometime they don't stamp it. I have about 30 4457s, some stamped some not. Never had an issue. DRSS Searcy 470 NE | |||
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"They don't retain your info", says the guy from California. hahahaha ... then why do they enter it in a computer? -------------------------------------------- National Rifle Association - Life Member National Wild Turkey Federation - Diamond Life Sponsor Pope & Young Club - Associate Member | |||
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I have been told that it's to check the stolen firearm data base. | |||
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There has definitely been a change in the system. Your passport number has an indicator of traveling with a firearm. When I went to get my 4457 for Zim trip in July I was asked to provide an inteneary with flight info. I was also told at Orlando airport - new 4457 for every trip. I wish there was one government web source for all this info instead of hearing from different peoples experience. Mike | |||
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I believe that they do retain firearm serial numbers in their computers because I watched the US Customs people do it. I was detained in Customs at Washington DC for about half an hour coming back from RSA in 2013. The reason was that they couldn't find my rifle's serial number in their computer but did have a record of me taking a firearm of the country when I left on the trip. They asked me if I had taken it out of country before and I told them that I had taken it to Zimbabwe in 2011. They checked their computers for the records from 2011 and found the serial number there. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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It is illegal to retain your firearm info. They are only supposed to be checking your serial number against some stolen firearms data base. They are not supposed to be retaining any info! I would instantly write my congressman and senators. . | |||
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I don't think they are writing down firearm info. I think they are flagging 4457 travelers - why they are asking for intenaries. I don't think they database software is updating travelers out of flagged wi firearms after the trip is taken with a particular 4457. It is confusing to say the least. Mike | |||
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Well it does not surprise me. Government is good at one thing: taking your money. They are completely incompetent at everything else. Rule 1: Government will fail you If a terrorist took out a full page ad in the WSJ detailing plans of his attack, the media would defend his first amendment rights while blaming white privilege for his rage, and the gov't would arrest the citizen who shot the terrorist red-handed. Why you may ask? It's pretty simple: government hires the people nobody else wants to hire, and then does not hold them accountable for anything except showing up. The solution? 1. Keep government as small as possible, and as close to the taxpayer as possible. 2. Term limits 3. A constitutional amendment forbidding transfer payments by government ie taking money from citizen/entity A and giving it to citizen/entity B either directly or through creation of a tax provision favoring citizen/entity B. 4. A constitutional amendment limiting voter rolls to those who pay taxes to the relevant level of government, and specifically excluding employees of that level of government. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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The ONLY reason for them to have a List is to Tax you or take something away. | |||
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Last year came bank thru IAH. No X on the global Entry form. Picked up my gun and if did not track down a customs officer I could have walked right on out to my car. | |||
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Same experience at DFW this past June.. | |||
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100% correct. I have gone to the POE and had CBP officers sign off 4457's 15+ times. Not once have they put anything into the computer. DRSS Searcy 470 NE | |||
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Also 100% correct says the guy from California  DRSS Searcy 470 NE | |||
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Today got my 4457 for my new rifle. No hassle, took less than 10 min. Does have an expiration date of two years. Lady said I will need to renew then . You don't have to have a new one every time. She did suggest putting the description and serial number of the scope on the 4457 just in case the person checking you in asks questions about where you got the scope. Made sense, an ounce of prevention works when dealing with those folks. | |||
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When I came back from Namibia in 2013, I arrived in Detroit as my first U S connection. I presented my 4457 for my Winchester Model 70 and the CBP young punk asked where my 4457 was for my Leupold scope, since as he said ... "they're made in Germany". I showed him the stamp on the scope that says "Made in USA". I then asked permission to switch on ny IPHONE and showed him the Leupold website, whose banner says... "Proudly designed, manufactured and marketed in Oregon". Being a smartass, I asked him if Oregon was now part of Germany. He shut his pie hole after that. Typical government slug on a power trip Jesus saves, but Moses invests | |||
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Two of my clients recently went to DFW to get their Form 4457. The Customs officer they dealt with didn't even catch that the ser# on one of the guns did not match the filled out 4457. They had to drive back to DFW last week and go through the dog and pony show again. Client's fault for the typo but wouldn't you think the CBP would have checked carefully? Isn't that why they want to see the guns. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Came back through Dulles (IAD) 9 September. Noted in Global Entry that I had more than the $800 in goods acquired abroad. When I went through the officer at the kiosk to show my global entry form, he said I was traveling with a firearm which I readily acknowledged. Said he did not care about the goods in response to my description of them as bronze sculpture. (Sarah Richards wonderful Swainson spurfowl - see her website). I was routed immediately to the customs holding area where I sat for an hour. Previously you would pick up your bag and sometimes, on going out of customs, the officer would have you go into the holding area where another officer would check your 4457 against your firearm(s). Finally, Lufthansa came up and sheepishly admitted that the firearms/ammo were not loaded in Frankfurt. I told the Customs Officer that he could cut the lock off my gun case and find firearms and 4457 copy inside along with a spare lock to use. Lufthansa would not deliver the firearms to DC so I trekked out there the next day. Major nuisance, especially with what is clearly a new procedure at Customs for firearms. Regards | |||
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While my rifles did arrive...I went through the new procedure at Dulles too in the end of August. It took over an hour and was a pain in the @$$! The right hand did not know what the left hand was doing there this time. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Same in Atlanta last month. Was met at Global Entry and escorted by an officer to the rifle check office. Then we waited for over an hour for the rifles to even arrive. A long line of hunters by then, and some having to catch a flight very soon. Then it was one at a time into the room, when there were two tables and four officers in the room. Four officers couldn't handle two hunters at a time. The officers that were doing the checking were new and didn't know what to do. Some of us had to instruct them what to look for and where. Questioned about my ammo belt, they then rifled through my fanny pack and pulled out everything to look at. (Fortunately I had everything in their own zip lock in the fanny pack and marked and identified) Then out of the office to wait for another 15 minutes until they had another officer who could walk you and your rifles to re-check. | |||
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I just cane back from Canada and used the CBP pre-clearance in Edmonton and they never asked for my 4457 or opened the rifle case. Smooth as silk. Sometimes I think it is all dependent on the airport and the CBP personnel on duty. Don Trust only those who stand to lose as much as you do when things go wrong. | |||
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Customs is definitely doing something new - its is just inconsistent and unexplained to the public. I am moving my incoming flight directly to Orlando (emirates) whenever I travel with a firearm. I really like hunting with my own rifle. Tomorrow I head to Romania from Budapest. Multi country travel with firearms is near impossible. Traveling in and out of us with firearms is becoming a hassle. Mike | |||
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That's what I went through exactly in ATL in July. A real pain in the ass! I( wrote my Congressman and Senators! Quit putting up with this nonsense and make some noise. | |||
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Wish there was something clear to write about. Right now one can only write about their experience. But the policy underlying some people (mine included) experience is just that experience. Whatever policy there is opaque at best and in reality murky and unexplained to the public. I have given money to both republican and democrats in the senate side recently - let me see if anyone responds. I most likely will get a crappy form letter. Mike | |||
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I told them that as a law abiding tax paying citizen of this country that this purposeful inconvenience is ridiculous. I also told them that since i already have a signed and stamped 4457 from CBP that there is absolutely no legal reason to check my firearm against any database upon my return to the USA, and there isn't. . | |||
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They explained that new new escort procedure and heightened security about firearms was due to the airport shooter that occurred some months ago. Checking my firearms in the database seems straight up communism to me...the government isn't supposed to know anything about my firearms. | |||
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This isn't related to having a 4457 in my experience. It is related to being tagged as having a firearm in your luggage. That process actually starts with the airline. You can check a firearm without a 4457. If things haven't changed you can still come back into the US without a 4457. IIRC, the 4457 has nothing to do with a firearm. The 4457 is a document that essentially substitutes for having the receipts for an item and it becomes proof that the item was in your possession prior to leaving the US. I was once tagged by a United counter agenet as being "an armed LEO on the plane" and had to spend 10 minutes explaining to the pilot that I was not carrying. Mike  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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It used to be you didn't need a 4457 to enter the US with a firearm, but those days are long gone. I agree that if your serial number matches the 4457, why check to see if it is stolen? Can't they do that when you first register it, or do they not trust their own documentation? | |||
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I returned from South Africa on Emirates to Fort Lauderdale this month. Emirates took my gun case directly to CBP. The CBP officer was very knowledgeable and professional. This was a pleasant change to the normal reception. The officer in charge even commented that they had requested an experienced officer to assist with returning hunters. I was impressed. Safe travels..............Larry | |||
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They've been doing this at Atlanta since at least 2013. On my trip last month it took me 1 1/2 hours from arrival back in ATL until I was checked in for my home flight to KC. I was surprised it was that quick. In 2013 it was almost double that. For this trip I could have done a quicker connection I guess but the extra time allowed me to enjoy some breakfast from BoJangles. | |||
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Let me tell you how it is. You can line up 10 CBP officers and ask them a question. You will get 10 different answers, and they will all be right, if you know what I mean. DRSS Searcy 470 NE | |||
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Folks, Here's a twist. Just entered the US through Toronto. After security I was directed to the Customs waiting area. I scanned my boarding pass and in a few minutes my name came up on the board directing me to go through to the CBP office. They asked for my 4457, checked my Ser # and sent me on my way. Easy peasy and the 911 attackers came through Canada. My question is why are they detaining folks at other POE's? Nothing that anybody has said warrants this. I have a friend in CBP and he has no clue why people are being detained and asked stupid questions. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I came back through Vancouver Saturday, and CBP just asked for my declaration and a copy of my 4457 to verify against the Canadian firearms declaration. They verified numbers and sent me on my way. Last year I had to go into their office and wait an hour to go through the same exercise. It may be totally random, based on who the CBP officer is who looks at your documents. | |||
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Same here. I landed sept 13 from bulawayo on SAA Have global entry and used it many times before. This time i got the big x. I had filled out the blue form on the plane just in case, ha, little did i know. Yes escorted down the red line and had to wait til they brought my rifle. They cbp guy came and for me, very polite. Took extra 35-40 mimites. This is my home airport and in over 25 trips flying with rifles only the second time i have been called to the office. I asked if this was the new standard procedure for firearms as rhis had never happened like this before. They said it has alwqus been this way. Why argue?! Buy in fron of me from same flight also in line, not wure if there were other hunters and we were just the lucky two, or if this is going to be every rifle. Time will tell
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I just traveled to Zambia and back with two rifles in a two gun case. On the way out neither Jet Blue or Emirates looked for the second gun - they just wanted to see that the gun on top was empty. On the way back we cleared customs on Boston. The CBP officer just looked at the 4457 and never made us open our gun cases. The inconsistent application of established safety guidelines continues to leave me amazed....... | |||
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Count your blessings "Never, ever, book a hunt with Jeri Booth or Detail Company Adventures" | |||
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