THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM SMALL CALIBER FORUM

Page 1 2 

Moderators: Paul H
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Creedmoor
 Login/Join
 
one of us
posted Hide Post
How'd you know I was talking about you? Tell us about your load development and ballistic results with the Creedmoors you've owned. I can't wait for this.....
 
Posts: 2276 | Location: West Texas | Registered: 07 December 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Because you and I have been talking to each other for three pages. I am also the only one you referred to earlier as a CDS.

I am not mad about it. Take care.
 
Posts: 3162 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of JBrown
posted Hide Post
First off let me say that I agree with LHeym500 in that the 6.5 Creedmoor is not magic. Just as with any cartridge is a complicated mixture of compromises that hinder it in some areas while allowing it to shine in others.....


quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:

The 6.5 Creedmore does nothing the 260 Remington does not do. .


This is incorrect. The 6.5 Creedmoor handles long, heavy for caliber bullets better than the 260 Rem. This allows it to retain more energy at longer ranges.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
The problem with the 260 is it has long been crippled (like the 6mm Remington before it) with the wrong twist for heavier VLD bullets.


This is incorrect. The 260 Rem was marketed as a hunting cartridge for deer sized game. It's twist is suited for hunting bullets that cover this range of game. It was not intended for "VDL bullets". Over stabilized bullets are said to be less accurate, which is probably why Remington went with the 1 in 9 twist for the short 120 and 140 grain bullets it offered.

quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:

If the 6.5 Creedmore was sold honestly as a low recoiling cartridge with the trajectory of a 30/06 making it a fine deer cartridge over 300 yards, then I would not have a problem with it.

But that would not sell rifles and cartridges. Folks would just buy a 270 or 30/06. We all know how the 6.5 Creedmore is marketed. That hype is wrong.


I guess what you are saying is that the 6.5 Creedmoor should be marketed honestly just like the 260 Remington was? Let's be honest, the 260 Remington was marketed as a deer hunting cartridge for sissies and eccentric old men. -I say this in jest(sort of), but that was how the gun writers pushed the 260: "My wife is loves the low recoil and I have been amazed at how well it has worked for her....", "It is a far better cartridge for young hunters than the 243..." That is a hell of a stigma to place on a new cartridge.

How well did that work out? We know how it worked out: most folks bought a 270 or 30/06... And the great 260 was left to die a slow death.


Honestly there is a lot to love in the milder cartridges(257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x55, 260 Rem, 7mm-08, 7x57). I have never fallen for short action cartridges but my daughter's 257 Roberts made me open my eyes to the possibilities of a mild cartridge in a short action, light weight rifle. So much so that I ran out and purchased a five pound 7mm-08 after I used her rifle to kill two caribou with one shot a piece at just under 300 yards.

The Creedmoor offers nothing over the 260 as a hunting cartridge at normal hunting ranges. Nothing.... But it does have the acclaim of being "optimized for heavy for caliber VDL bullets that allow heavily muscled, bearded men to make hits at ultra long ranges".

And lets be honest, that makes it a lot easier for the average guy to buy and used than "The 260 Remington: great cartridge for women and young boys(and recoil shy men....)"


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the
punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 5647 | Location: The North Slope, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Good posts JBrown. I agree with you. You have to remember that LHeym offered up opinions and criticisms of a product he has never used and has no experience with. He's only read about it. The 30* shoulder of the Creed helps make it one of the least finicky cartridges in production. A very wide variety of bullets and powders can be combined to make very accurate loads without much fuss.
 
Posts: 2276 | Location: West Texas | Registered: 07 December 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Bottom line is the Creedmoor is magic based only on a high dollar advertisement campaign, not new to the gun world, Happens everytime, sooner or later the caliber dies or meets with success..I think the Creedmoor will become a mainstay in that they killed off the250-3000 some years ago, and folks just didn't realize what they had done! old

It is a good varmint and deer hunting caliber and not a mistake to own one an love it, it balistics are deer medicine..I prefer the 250-3000 to the Creedmoor, but for no other reason than loyality. wave

All in all its just another nice caliber, nothing more or less, nothing magic about any caliber, they is what they is!! and most of all it doesn't kill at both ends..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36099 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
The Creedmoor needs no advertisement. The long range crowd took to it because it had merit and the hunting crowd has followed suit. There are somewhere around 25+ different loadings offered. Ammo can be bought almost anywhere. It doesn't suffer from slow twist rates that Remington gave the 260. It's home grown accuracy with components easy to get and it's easy to load for.
Properly barreled and loaded the 260 and 6.5x55 can do well but if you want to purchase a decent accurate rifle at a modest price that you don't have to move heaven and earth to get to shoot and do it with factory ammo; get a Creedmoor.
Comparing a 270 to a 6.5 Creedmoor is bogus at best. You're comparing a case that holds 60+grains of powder to one that holds 43+. I love my 270's and 30-06's but there's still a lot of praise for the Creedmoor. I shot mine to 1200 yards a few weeks back and I'll go back and shoot it further next trim if I have time. I don't think I'd want to try game at that distance but hitting a 10" steel plate at 1100 yards is, well just fun.
 
Posts: 915 | Location: Blooming Grove, Tx. | Registered: 28 June 2012Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of dpcd
posted Hide Post
I opened this because I fitted a 6.5 CM barrel to a n FN mauser this afternoon; a Douglas, 8 inch twist, in my Rigby contour. Guess what it was before; 260. Guy wanted a 6.5.
Yes they are magic. They work as advertised, unlike some others. Anyway, people like them; they work. Ok, it is new; so what?
I do not know what a CDS is. Referenced above.
Chronic Detail Syndrome?
 
Posts: 12220 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Creedmore Derangement Syndrome.
 
Posts: 3162 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Bottom line is the Creedmoor is magic based only on a high dollar advertisement campaign, not new to the gun world, Happens everytime, sooner or later the caliber dies or meets with success..I think the Creedmoor will become a mainstay in that they killed off the250-3000 some years ago, and folks just didn't realize what they had done! old

It is a good varmint and deer hunting caliber and not a mistake to own one an love it, it balistics are deer medicine..I prefer the 250-3000 to the Creedmoor, but for no other reason than loyality. wave

All in all its just another nice caliber, nothing more or less, nothing magic about any caliber, they is what they is!! and most of all it doesn't kill at both ends..


I'm betting you have as much experience with the 6.5CM as LHeym does Ray. None.
 
Posts: 2276 | Location: West Texas | Registered: 07 December 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Like I said, I do not own a Creedmore. I will not own a creedmore.

I own a 6.5 x55 Swede which is the same size engine. On the other side, I have a 7mm/08 that I shoot below 6.5 Creedmore ballistics. The 7mm/08 load is a 140 grain bullet at 2770 FPS.

The ballistics, the math, the deer does not care what the cartilage looks like. Neither of these 3 are 600 yard lasers which is how the Creedmore is marketed and why I hate its hype.

It is a fine deer cartridge that can be pushed on elk best used 250 and in for elk, just like so many others of its class.
 
Posts: 3162 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Oh my! I just realized I sound like the 375 HH Folks who hate the 375 Ruger.

I will say I do not hate the Creedmore. I just do not like its push as more than.
 
Posts: 3162 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I can accept the fact that you have no use for it. It's everyone's choice to make. Once again though, you have zero experience, but continue to offer baseless (what you read somewhere) opinions on a product you've never held in your hands, used, shot, etc. I have an acquaintance in NE MT that is a gov't animal control guy. He kills stuff everyday. He'd tell you your full of crap with your 6.5CM/elk analysis, and most everything else you've said about it quite frankly.

Keep guessing though, it's quite entertaining.
 
Posts: 2276 | Location: West Texas | Registered: 07 December 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Something else will come along tomorrow.
Rifles are becoming like Bows, cell phones and computers a new whiz bang every year.
I bet if 1/2 the folks just spent the time getting to know the firearm they have they would be happy.
What happen to the 280AI? All the rage 5-6 years ago.
I can tailor most my rifles with handloads to shoot 1/2"groups at 100. Good enough to hit a target at 400 yds. If I can hold my gun steady enough.
It is not the gun, it is more than likely me being the variable.
Beyond that I may need a 13 pound rifle with a very good rest on a calm cool day.
 
Posts: 2166 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 January 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JGRaider:
I can accept the fact that you have no use for it. It's everyone's choice to make. Once again though, you have zero experience, but continue to offer baseless (what you read somewhere) opinions on a product you've never held in your hands, used, shot, etc. I have an acquaintance in NE MT that is a gov't animal control guy. He kills stuff everyday. He'd tell you your full of crap with your 6.5CM/elk analysis, and most everything else you've said about it quite frankly.

Keep guessing though, it's quite entertaining.


Sir, pointing out the ballistics of the cartidge is not baseless. What about the 6.5 Creedmore’s tragetory have I said that is false.

I wonder if he would shoot elk at the distance of over 300 yards with a 6.5 Sweade or 260 Remington. He skill level would allow it, but what one expert does, does not change the fact it is not a 600 yard elk rifle.

Ballistics is math, cartridge design is all about combustion space, the Creedmore has no more range than anything else (no more than the 6.5 Sweade and 260 Remington)and less than a 270 Win.

We are just saying the same thing over and over again. Have a good and safe hunting season.

There is no guess as to how flat any cartridge shoots or how much energy it has at a given range.
 
Posts: 3162 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of JBrown
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:.

There is no guess as to how flat any cartridge shoots or how much energy it has at a given range.


Really! Well I guess you haven’t read this article: https://gundigest.com/author/elwood-shelton

According to the author the Creedmoor shoots “as flat as a midwestern prairie” or some such bullshit....

I mean really, the Creedmoor is great, it is an outstanding long range target cartridge, and it is a great hunting cartridge in the “mild” category. But let’s get real, it’s not a laser. There are tons of cartridge that shoot much flatter. And even the cartridges that are in the same class(260, 6.5x55, 6.5x284) will match or better the Creedmoor at hunting distances.

But if you guys read the article that I linked above you will see exactly the hype that LHeym500 is talking about. I mean seriously, the author shows charts that show that the Creedmoor is not magic, and then in the next paragraph he tells you about the “magic” of the creedmoor.

The author goes on and on talking about how the Creedmoor matches its competitors while burning less powder(which makes it so much easier on barrels, so much cheaper to shoot and so much less recoil) and then shows charts that show that it doesn’t even quite match its competition.
Roll Eyes

It’s a great cartridge(I can see myself owning one someday)but does it need this much BS?


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the
punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 5647 | Location: The North Slope, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I will own one when and if I find a used one at a decent price on the free market.

The ones I have shot have been easy shooting firearms
 
Posts: 15888 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I have most all the 6.5's: 6.5 Swede, 6.5x54 Manlicher, 6.5 Japanese, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 Grendel, and the 260 Remington. First up the 260 Rem. Most I've seen in factory cartridges are throated short for the 120 grain bullet. It's very true that the 6.5 Creedmoor won't do more then the 260 aside from the fact it has a faster twist and is throated for the longer bullets.

One poster said he has the 6.5 Swede and it's the same engine as the 6.5 Creedmoor. Let's talk engines. Let's take two Chevy small block engines in the 327 cubic inch bracket. One is plain Jane stock. The other has bigger valves, bigger intake ports, it's also ported and polished, high compression pistons, big cam, big carb, and headers. Which one is going to race better? Well the 6.5 Creedmoor is like that racing engine. It's a shorter stockier case then the 308 case the 260 Rem or 6.5 Swede is on, and that has proven well in performance, it has a better shoulder angle, and that has been proven better preformance....in other words these enhancement burn the powder more efficient. With that shoulder, and longer necks on some similar cases, keep the powder burning in the case not the throat and bore. In addition the Creedmoor is operating at a slightly higher pressure. I'm not toting it as the wonder 6.5. In fact I had the 260 Rem first and always said if you throat it out, change the twist, and pump up the pressure it's right there or past the Creedmoor. The 6.5 Creedmoor also has a little brother...the 6mm Creedmoor.

A statement was made the 260 Rem is better for deer hunting then the 243. I grew up with a 243. I've seen a LOT of deer taken with the 243 and it's no slouch for that job. I'd say comparing the 243 and 260 is like comparing the 30-30 and the 32 Win Special. Not much difference.

A milder recoiling caliber/rifle does not necessarily make it a woman's or youngster's rifle ONLY!!!

Last but not least over spinning a bullet more than what is needed does not necessarily destroy it's hunting accuracy. We're talking excessive here.
 
Posts: 496 | Registered: 15 May 2018Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Beretta682E
posted Hide Post
The best things about the 6.5 creedmoor is the availability of good factory match ammo.

I can buy top quality 6.5 match ammo for between $1-1.15 a around. Cheaper than I can buy 308 match ammo.

I bought a blaser match barrel in 6.5 - will build my target rig around it in the next few weeks.

Mike


Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.

Bernard Baruch
 
Posts: 10440 | Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida | Registered: 22 July 2010Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Peter:
quote:
They are a known commodity as junk


Now you tell me!!
Peter
on my compass I went through a semi barrel break in and after a little trigger work and bedding. last four shots from 1st box of Federal non-typical was 3/4". then 1st 3 shots of Hornady American whitetail were .413. so I'm ok with it that's all I've shot it. just wanted to try a creedmoor. So I bought it as a rainy day/back up. I have shot some very expensive rifles that weren't nearly as accurate.


No matter where you go or what you do there you are! Yes tis true and tis pity but pity tis, tis true.
 
Posts: 496 | Registered: 09 November 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I found the article written by Tom Beckstrand of SOCOM’s adoption of the 6.5 Creedmore.

Guns and Ammo 2019 Annual pages 98-108.

Page 104: “Testing showed the 260 Remington and 6.5 Creedmore to be identical. There was no measurable difference in trajectory or wind drift.”
 
Posts: 3162 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I wasn't going to get in to this... but what the heck, I'm bored...

I have a bunch of 6.5 rifles.

Low and slow is a Italian 6.5 Carcano. Its not a bad rifle, but unless you want to modify the heck out of it to put a scope mount on it, it is restricted in that sense. I shoot it about as well as I shoot any military iron sight rifle 2-3" at 100. Recoil is pretty benign. Truth be told, I brought it because one of my office partners kept telling me that what Oswald did was impossible. It ain't.

Next step up is a 6.5 x 55 Swede mauser. I suspect it is actually a better shooter than the Carcano, but I shoot them both the same, as they are both in unmodified military guise. Recoil is about the same as the carcano, but the rifle is substantially heavier.

Next is a Remington 673 in 6.5 Rem Mag. This is actually quite accurate. I can get under 1" with it using 120's. It doesn't seem to do as well with 140's, but that may be me. Its not a true magnum as it has a short barrel, but I would be happy hunting up to elk with it as long as I would get a broadside shot at one.

Then is the big/fast one, a Nosler M48 in .26 Nosler. Overbore as hell, fast as hell, impressive on modest sized animals (it treats lots of things like prairie dogs- up to coon.) My particular one isn't all that accurate, I suppose Nosler went and cherry picked the good ones for the gun writers, and they lost a LOT of goodwill from me with the answers I got from them while I was waiting about 2 years to get the damn thing. When I cut it down to .264 WM ballistics, I get right around 1 MOA for 3 shot groups. I know guys with other brands of rifles who state its an accurate round. The factory rounds don't meet up with advertised velocity, and look overpressure on the spent cases to me. I will admit that I have used it for pronghorn hunting, but didn't get a shot. The rifle is a bit heavy and long, but that's reasonable given what it is. The recoil is about what one would expect from a .30-06.

The final one is my newest range toy, a SAKO TRG-22 in 6.5 Creedmoor. I haven't shot it a lot yet, but its a shooter. I attribute that to the rifle more than the cartridge, as the TRG's I have shot have all been very accurate. I got the rifle after playing with a friend's 6.5 Creed at the range, banging steel up to 600 yards away.

I broke it in with Hornady American Gunner- not exactly match grade ammo, and the final two groups while doing that were both sub .5 MOA (the larger had a flyer that brought it to 0.6" edge to edge, the better was .4" edge to edge, with if my math is right means it should be about a 0.15 center to center group- which is about as good as anything I've ever done. I have a .308 that does that and a .375 H&H that will shoot groups like that occasionally. (I am talking 5 shot groups here...)

The pros are obviously the accuracy in this gun, and the ammo was cheap. The cons- a $3K rifle with a $3K Nightforce scope is not exactly budget friendly. The rifle is also a heavy pig at about 17# all up with bipod on it.

So, I think I have some experience with the round and the caliber.

I am not sold on the innate superiority of the 6.5 bullet or the 6.5 Creedmoor as a cartridge. A .300 Ultra mag outshoots the Nosler both with my examples, and as far as paper ballistics- and that's a pre 64 Win 70... with a lower powered scope on it- a Z5) but it beats you up a bit if you shoot it much... not too much that it caused problems (I used that to shoot my Mountain Nyala as well as 15 other game animals.)

As above, I have a .308 AR 10 that is every bit as accurate as the TRG (but its also every bit as much cash in it- a Baer.)

The Creedmoor actually recoils more than the Baer given they weigh about the same and the Baer has a muzzle brake on it.

The 6.5 Creed handles wind no better than the .308 (but its a 175 SMK worked up match load vs a 140 Hornady HPBT cheapie factory round from what I was shooting and comparing.)

The creed has a lot less muzzle blast. If I put a suppressor on it, it probably will be like a .223 as far as recoil.

IMO, the Creedmoor is not a superior round, but its execution is superior. I understand Hornady wrote the specs up with a lot less tolerance, and as such, a cheap Creed is a comparible to a higher dollar rifle. The ammo is cheap, the rifles are less expensive if you want to go that route, and you get high value per dollar.

If you want to shoot the .260, you can do as well or better than the Creed, if you are willing to spend a lot of money, and get a customized rifle with a long bullet twist, a match type chamber, and usually a fancy custom barrel. The Creedmoor rifles are ready to go as far as a bunch of gunsmith work effectively being pre done, and at no real price to you. Fundamentally, the major part of superior accuracy is matching the barrel characteristics of twist to the desired bullet, and then consistency in rifle and ammo. The Creedmoor is no magic, but it is an affordable way to get into accuracy shooting without knowing a whole lot about rifles before you get there.

As an aside, a good friend took a 6.5 creedmoor to Uganda to let his granddaughter hunt with him.

He hates the round with a passion now.

The reason, of course is that he used Hornady factory ammo with bullets that were not suited to the subject at hand, and had a bunch of blow ups. He doesn't want to believe to a better bullet would have behaved better- he's getting her a new rifle in 7x57, or so I was told...

And I've had the same thing with Gunwriters.

They were singing the praises of the .26 Nosler. You would have thought it was everything. Hypervelocity, and the Nosler rifles were supposed to be lasers.

Same kind of hogwash as the Creedmoor fan club writers, except it does produce better accuracy (due to the tighter tolerances) compared to standard that the average guy can see. I expect that if you hand a fast twist .308 TRG to Joe Average and call it the .30 Wimbledon he will be convinced that it is some sort of magic as well...until he gets the price tag...
 
Posts: 5524 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Well I did it too, said I wouldn't. Ran across a nice used Kimber Montana. Really liked the rifle and the dealer made me a better trade offer than I expected on a Sendero .300 mag. that I had not shot in 10 years. I would have traded if it had been a .260, 7-8 or .308 but it happened to be a 6.5 CM. With a VX6 scope it weighs 6lbs. 4 oz. and puts three 129 Accubonds in 3" at 400 yds.
I'm trying hard not to like this rifle but I just can't.
 
Posts: 183 | Location: North Alabama | Registered: 13 January 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
I wasn't going to get in to this... but what the heck, I'm bored...

I have a bunch of 6.5 rifles.

Low and slow is a Italian 6.5 Carcano. Its not a bad rifle, but unless you want to modify the heck out of it to put a scope mount on it, it is restricted in that sense. I shoot it about as well as I shoot any military iron sight rifle 2-3" at 100. Recoil is pretty benign. Truth be told, I brought it because one of my office partners kept telling me that what Oswald did was impossible. It ain't.

Next step up is a 6.5 x 55 Swede mauser. I suspect it is actually a better shooter than the Carcano, but I shoot them both the same, as they are both in unmodified military guise. Recoil is about the same as the carcano, but the rifle is substantially heavier.

Next is a Remington 673 in 6.5 Rem Mag. This is actually quite accurate. I can get under 1" with it using 120's. It doesn't seem to do as well with 140's, but that may be me. Its not a true magnum as it has a short barrel, but I would be happy hunting up to elk with it as long as I would get a broadside shot at one.

Then is the big/fast one, a Nosler M48 in .26 Nosler. Overbore as hell, fast as hell, impressive on modest sized animals (it treats lots of things like prairie dogs- up to coon.) My particular one isn't all that accurate, I suppose Nosler went and cherry picked the good ones for the gun writers, and they lost a LOT of goodwill from me with the answers I got from them while I was waiting about 2 years to get the damn thing. When I cut it down to .264 WM ballistics, I get right around 1 MOA for 3 shot groups. I know guys with other brands of rifles who state its an accurate round. The factory rounds don't meet up with advertised velocity, and look overpressure on the spent cases to me. I will admit that I have used it for pronghorn hunting, but didn't get a shot. The rifle is a bit heavy and long, but that's reasonable given what it is. The recoil is about what one would expect from a .30-06.

The final one is my newest range toy, a SAKO TRG-22 in 6.5 Creedmoor. I haven't shot it a lot yet, but its a shooter. I attribute that to the rifle more than the cartridge, as the TRG's I have shot have all been very accurate. I got the rifle after playing with a friend's 6.5 Creed at the range, banging steel up to 600 yards away.

I broke it in with Hornady American Gunner- not exactly match grade ammo, and the final two groups while doing that were both sub .5 MOA (the larger had a flyer that brought it to 0.6" edge to edge, the better was .4" edge to edge, with if my math is right means it should be about a 0.15 center to center group- which is about as good as anything I've ever done. I have a .308 that does that and a .375 H&H that will shoot groups like that occasionally. (I am talking 5 shot groups here...)

The pros are obviously the accuracy in this gun, and the ammo was cheap. The cons- a $3K rifle with a $3K Nightforce scope is not exactly budget friendly. The rifle is also a heavy pig at about 17# all up with bipod on it.

So, I think I have some experience with the round and the caliber.

I am not sold on the innate superiority of the 6.5 bullet or the 6.5 Creedmoor as a cartridge. A .300 Ultra mag outshoots the Nosler both with my examples, and as far as paper ballistics- and that's a pre 64 Win 70... with a lower powered scope on it- a Z5) but it beats you up a bit if you shoot it much... not too much that it caused problems (I used that to shoot my Mountain Nyala as well as 15 other game animals.)

As above, I have a .308 AR 10 that is every bit as accurate as the TRG (but its also every bit as much cash in it- a Baer.)

The Creedmoor actually recoils more than the Baer given they weigh about the same and the Baer has a muzzle brake on it.

The 6.5 Creed handles wind no better than the .308 (but its a 175 SMK worked up match load vs a 140 Hornady HPBT cheapie factory round from what I was shooting and comparing.)

The creed has a lot less muzzle blast. If I put a suppressor on it, it probably will be like a .223 as far as recoil.

IMO, the Creedmoor is not a superior round, but its execution is superior. I understand Hornady wrote the specs up with a lot less tolerance, and as such, a cheap Creed is a comparible to a higher dollar rifle. The ammo is cheap, the rifles are less expensive if you want to go that route, and you get high value per dollar.

If you want to shoot the .260, you can do as well or better than the Creed, if you are willing to spend a lot of money, and get a customized rifle with a long bullet twist, a match type chamber, and usually a fancy custom barrel. The Creedmoor rifles are ready to go as far as a bunch of gunsmith work effectively being pre done, and at no real price to you. Fundamentally, the major part of superior accuracy is matching the barrel characteristics of twist to the desired bullet, and then consistency in rifle and ammo. The Creedmoor is no magic, but it is an affordable way to get into accuracy shooting without knowing a whole lot about rifles before you get there.

As an aside, a good friend took a 6.5 creedmoor to Uganda to let his granddaughter hunt with him.

He hates the round with a passion now.

The reason, of course is that he used Hornady factory ammo with bullets that were not suited to the subject at hand, and had a bunch of blow ups. He doesn't want to believe to a better bullet would have behaved better- he's getting her a new rifle in 7x57, or so I was told...

And I've had the same thing with Gunwriters.

They were singing the praises of the .26 Nosler. You would have thought it was everything. Hypervelocity, and the Nosler rifles were supposed to be lasers.

Same kind of hogwash as the Creedmoor fan club writers, except it does produce better accuracy (due to the tighter tolerances) compared to standard that the average guy can see. I expect that if you hand a fast twist .308 TRG to Joe Average and call it the .30 Wimbledon he will be convinced that it is some sort of magic as well...until he gets the price tag...


Thanks. Your comments are a lot of help. I have a creedmore, it is seriously accurate and fun to shoot. Not sure about Africa with it yet, but will try with TSX's or similar. Should be good.
 
Posts: 8910 | Location: Denver - Go Rockies!! | Registered: 12 February 2004Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I don't have a dog in this fight but I don't see the Creedmoor as a elk cartridge, at long range!!! That's pure BS..try 200 yards, maybe 250 on a broadside shot, and I might buy off on that..That also applies to my 250-3000 and Ive used it on elk many times along with the 25-35, that's good on elk at 100 yards broadside..

The creedmoor is a nice caliber for sure, but lets cut the koolaide, its a good deer gun and that's about it, from a hunters standpoint.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36099 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
I don't have a dog in this fight but I don't see the Creedmoor as a elk cartridge, at long range!!! That's pure BS..try 200 yards, maybe 250 on a broadside shot, and I might buy off on that..That also applies to my 250-3000 and Ive used it on elk many times along with the 25-35, that's good on elk at 100 yards broadside..

The creedmoor is a nice caliber for sure, but lets cut the koolaide, its a good deer gun and that's about it, from a hunters standpoint.


Well put. Creedmoor sanity at last. tu2
 
Posts: 133 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 30 October 2012Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Well, I just got my 6.5 back from the gunsmith. Had some work done on it and a new load worked up. I’m now settled on shooting the Barnes 127 grain LRX at 3,230 FPS. Just shot a 3-shot group of 3/8 inch. That should be ‘good enough’.

BTW, my 6.5 is a .264 win mag. If I’m shooting a 6.5, I’m shooting one with some horsepower.
 
Posts: 2989 | Location: California | Registered: 01 January 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DLS:
Well, I just got my 6.5 back from the gunsmith. Had some work done on it and a new load worked up. I’m now settled on shooting the Barnes 127 grain LRX at 3,230 FPS. Just shot a 3-shot group of 3/8 inch. That should be ‘good enough’.

BTW, my 6.5 is a .264 win mag. If I’m shooting a 6.5, I’m shooting one with some horsepower.


Now THAT'S a cartridge! Tied for my all-time favourite round.
 
Posts: 156 | Registered: 01 January 2019Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by cdsx:
quote:
Originally posted by DLS:
Well, I just got my 6.5 back from the gunsmith. Had some work done on it and a new load worked up. I’m now settled on shooting the Barnes 127 grain LRX at 3,230 FPS. Just shot a 3-shot group of 3/8 inch. That should be ‘good enough’.

BTW, my 6.5 is a .264 win mag. If I’m shooting a 6.5, I’m shooting one with some horsepower.


Now THAT'S a cartridge! Tied for my all-time favourite round.


Mine too. Paired with my .338 Win Mag, those Two are what I carry over 90% of the time.
 
Posts: 2989 | Location: California | Registered: 01 January 2009Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 


Copyright December 1997-2020 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia