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I personally don't know why the penny, but I remember the old Blue Goop.
 
Posts: 8861 | Location: Poetry, Texas | Registered: 28 November 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by butchlambert:
I personally don't know why the penny, but I remember the old Blue Goop.


Maybe so BR shooters wouldn’t drink it? Confused Smiler
 
Posts: 3701 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 27 May 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by INTJ:
quote:
Originally posted by butchlambert:
I personally don't know why the penny, but I remember the old Blue Goop.


Maybe so BR shooters wouldn’t drink it? Confused Smiler


I think if some thought it may help, they would sip on it.
 
Posts: 8861 | Location: Poetry, Texas | Registered: 28 November 2004Reply With Quote
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I guess I'm old school. I still use Sweets. I have been looking for KG=12 but haven't found any yet. Would like to try it.


The only easy day is yesterday!
 
Posts: 2734 | Location: Northern Minnesota | Registered: 22 September 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Pegleg:
I guess I'm old school. I still use Sweets. I have been looking for KG=12 but haven't found any yet. Would like to try it.


Midway
 
Posts: 3701 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 27 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Picture of ledvm
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I am a SharpShoot-R fan.

Carbout first. Then Wipeout or Patchout. Another Carbout...dry patch until dry...good quality ATF for storage...dry patch out the ATF and shoot.

Throw in a little Kroil/JB’s for special occasions.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
Hunter/Conservationist

DSC Life Member
NRA Life Member
APHA Honorary Member

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans. – Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
 
Posts: 29628 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Robla Solo Mil...

Less aggressive but very effective and better smelling, Patch Out and Eliminator.

Every few hundred shots, JB paste.
 
Posts: 649 | Location: JOHANNESBURG, SOUTH AFRICA | Registered: 17 January 2013Reply With Quote
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Very interesting topic. When I was shooting NRA High Power, I was a barrel cleaning nut, no other way of stating my obsession with a clean bore. Having practiced a couple of courses of fire, then firing a match, I cleaned the barrel, a custom barrel with Hoppes, Shooters Choice, and or JB. "Knowing" the barrel was clean, a friend brought his bore scope over and I was shocked as to the traces of copper. He then "foamed" the bore with Gun Slick foaming bore cleaner. One hour later the ink blue liquid was which had dripped out of the muzzle should have told me something. We wiped the bore then re-inspected the bore, clean. So if you think your bore is copper free, spend the money and try the foaming bore cleaner. If it doesn't change color from white foam to ink blue, then your recipe and method is working.

I've bought used rifles and found them with copper bore fouling. A couple have had to be foamed several times to obtain a clean bore.

The last reason for my change is, my poor wife thought my cologne was Sweets, Hoppes, or Shooters Choice for the first 30 years of our marriage. And yes, I always used surgical gloves when cleaning my rifles.


Swift, Silent, & Friendly
 
Posts: 425 | Location: Nevada | Registered: 14 July 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Buglemintoday
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My KG12 finally met its match. I have been using it on my Sako AV .338 Win Mag. Probably 35 or so years old. Saw copper streaks in the barrel and have been working KG12 patches through it for the past week or so. The streaks have became thin but are still there.

Going to keep at it with the KG12 and if there is still signs of Copper in the barrel on Saturday I will pick up some sweets and try to have it gone completely.
 
Posts: 3176 | Location: Permian Basin | Registered: 16 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Curios. How long are you allowing it to soak?


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Posts: 22442 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Picture of Buglemintoday
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Speaking with eabco they told me no longer than 20-30 minutes in the barrel. I did perform a test on copper with kg12, hoppes, patchout...while the patchout and wipeout turned blue fast...the kg12 showed bubblig/agitation to the copper surface a lot quicker. So i figured it was the best for te job
 
Posts: 3176 | Location: Permian Basin | Registered: 16 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Strange. Since KG-12 is not ammonia based like Sweets and others, it can be left in the bore for hours at a time. All ammonia based cleaners are hygroscopic and will pull moisture into the bore. And an unprotected bore and moisture will begin to etch or frost a bore.

KG-12 is safe to let soak. And sounds like you may need to do a wet bore mop or nylon brush and coat the bore. Let it sit for an hour or two before patching out. I've never had copper that didn't succumb to KG-12.

If you are at all concerned with this, contact them via e-mail info@kgcoatings.com they generally respond quickly. You can also ask them on-line at http://www.kgcoatings.com/contact .

Good luck!


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Posts: 22442 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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I am not a chemist, but I put the end of a barrel blank in a jar of white ammonia about 15 years ago. It still looks new.
Don't ask me why.
 
Posts: 8861 | Location: Poetry, Texas | Registered: 28 November 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
KG-12 is safe to let soak. And sounds like you may need to do a wet bore mop or nylon brush and coat the bore. Let it sit for an hour or two before patching out. I've never had copper that didn't succumb to KG-12.


Correct, KG-12 is quite safe. My usual routine is first clean for carbon with KG-1. This also hits copper to a limited degree if left soaking first. Patching this out will show some "blue" on the patch.
KG-12 cleaning follows. I always patch the bore wet and leave for a minimum 2 hours. Following I always use a stiff nylon brush for about 100 strokes ( backwards and forwards = 2 strokes ), then patch dry. Most of the time this is all that's required. I have a couple of barrels that copper foul more readily. I tend to KG-12 soak these overnight, then nylon brush scrub. A few times I have been unable to return to finish cleaning for 48 hours. Over that time the KG-12 deposit has dried off. So I go straight in and re-wet the bore, leave it 2 hours, nylon brush scrub. I have always managed to clean out copper entirely and KG-12 is the only copper remover that has done that for me. Unlike other copper cleaners KG-12 hardly indicates the removal of copper. There is no "blue" on the patch but sometimes a bit of a brown mark / stain type of colour. And sometimes nothing. But, to date, it's still the best copper cleaner I have ever used.


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 1266 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
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Picture of Buglemintoday
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Perfect, I will let it sit an hour or two after a bore mop dose and see how things look

Thanks for the info!

Justin
 
Posts: 3176 | Location: Permian Basin | Registered: 16 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of ledvm
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quote:
Originally posted by Buglemintoday:
My KG12 finally met its match. I have been using it on my Sako AV .338 Win Mag. Probably 35 or so years old. Saw copper streaks in the barrel and have been working KG12 patches through it for the past week or so. The streaks have became thin but are still there.

Going to keep at it with the KG12 and if there is still signs of Copper in the barrel on Saturday I will pick up some sweets and try to have it gone completely.


You can take it from a longtime Sweets user...Wipeout/Patchout is much more efficient. If you want some Sweets...PM me and I will send you the full bottle had on hand...the first day I used Wipeout.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
Hunter/Conservationist

DSC Life Member
NRA Life Member
APHA Honorary Member

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans. – Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
 
Posts: 29628 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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I only use Kroil and foam these days.


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Posts: 7256 | Location: South East Missouri | Registered: 23 November 2005Reply With Quote
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On my third pass of Wipeout foaming on the barrel. It seems I can still see where the Copper was? But the coloring has left. strangely no blue patches.

Now I can see dark lines between the rifling which I am guessing is Carbon fouling.. Probably layers of copper on carbon on copper on carbon? I am tackling the Carbon with KG1 Carbon Remover.

Having fun with this one...I am thinking a few patches in sweets in a 10min time frame may have cleaned this all out. Or I should use my kroil with JB Bore paste...


I dread the day when my Borescope arrives and I see what I have been missing in the other rifles...
 
Posts: 3176 | Location: Permian Basin | Registered: 16 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Your barrel supplier will love it when you get the borescope.
 
Posts: 8861 | Location: Poetry, Texas | Registered: 28 November 2004Reply With Quote
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Picture of Buglemintoday
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quote:
Originally posted by butchlambert:
Your barrel supplier will love it when you get the borescope.


Big Grin I have at least two rifles that I wouldn't mind getting new barrels for Big Grin

How's the fishing been on Tawakoni? I need to get back over there with my boat and chase the crappie
 
Posts: 3176 | Location: Permian Basin | Registered: 16 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Getting close to crappie time. Tawakoni is only a few miles from me.
 
Posts: 8861 | Location: Poetry, Texas | Registered: 28 November 2004Reply With Quote
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I just finished up a 243 barrel that I fouled pretty good. Started with all the normal stuff & nylon brush. I could see I wasn't getting anyplace with the hard carbon so I dug out the accelerator & Wipe Out. It's clean now. For the tough ones Wipe Out is the best I have found. Actually the best is not to foul them as hard as I did this one.
 
Posts: 77 | Location: Iowa | Registered: 08 April 2002Reply With Quote
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Crack heads and met heads are very efficient copper removers.., but they don't fit in your barrel..

jumping


NRA Benefactor.

Life is tough... It's even tougher when you're stupid... John Wayne
 
Posts: 1827 | Location: The Three Lower Counties (Delaware USA) | Registered: 13 September 2001Reply With Quote
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We don't need to get every trace of copper out. The first couple shots in a clean bore put it back anyway. The goal is to avoid getting a copper build up so we can shoot a reasonable number of shots before accuracy falls off. My experience has been a decent barrel will go 30-50+ rounds between cleanings with non-coated bullets with no issue. A rough barrel, not so much.

I cleaned a barrel the other day that did have a heavy copper build up. I had to wrap a stiff nylon brush in a couple of patches and make several strokes with KG-12. It finally did get the copper 90-95% out of where I could see. No borescope, but it was a large enough bore that I could see in it a little ways.

My only complaint with KG-12 is I can't read the patches, so on a smaller bore I have to still use Bore Tech Eliminator as an indicator.
 
Posts: 3701 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 27 May 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Buglemintoday:
On my third pass of Wipeout foaming on the barrel. It seems I can still see where the Copper was? But the coloring has left. strangely no blue patches.

Now I can see dark lines between the rifling which I am guessing is Carbon fouling.. Probably layers of copper on carbon on copper on carbon? I am tackling the Carbon with KG1 Carbon Remover.

Having fun with this one...I am thinking a few patches in sweets in a 10min time frame may have cleaned this all out. Or I should use my kroil with JB Bore paste...


I dread the day when my Borescope arrives and I see what I have been missing in the other rifles...


My experience leads me to think that Sweets is nowhere nearly as strong of a copper remover as KG-12 or even Bore Tech eliminator.

However, without fail, multiple strokes with JB or Rem Bore Cleaner will clean even the most difficult barrel. For may years my go to was 80 strokes of Rem Bore Cleaner on a tight fitting brush wrapped in a patch. After I got all the grit cleaned out--which was a pain, a patch Barnes CR-10 or Sweets would come out so clean you could squeeze the cleaner out of the patch and reuse....... Smiler
 
Posts: 3701 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 27 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Picture of Michael Robinson
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Wipe Out all the way. Eliminates all the hard work from the process.


Mike

Edited on advice of counsel.
 
Posts: 11489 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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2 parts - 10% ammonia,
1 part - standard household "sudsy" ammonia (optional)
1 part - Ivory liquid dishwashing detergent

My favorite...it's home brewed


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9477 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of mike_elmer
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My first choice, if I have time to let the gun set overnight, is Wipe Out. My 2nd is G96 Military Grade Bore Solvent... the stuff just works wonderfully using patches with a "normal" cleaning procedure.
 
Posts: 8407 | Location: adamstown, pa | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I have a Rem 700 25-06 from the first year's production that has over 3000 rounds down the barrel. It coppers up pretty well, but, it takes about 100-150 rounds to get to where I need to clean it out.
I thought I'd try and see what worked best on that barrel.
I tried:
Wipe-out/Patch-out
KG12
Bore-tech copper eliminator
Outer's Foaming bore cleaner
Sweet's
Pro-shot copper eliminator
and finally, the 29% ammonia

After each I used a lyman bore scope to check it out.

I started with the Outer's and let it sit over night. Then re-sprayed and brushed. Ran the patches through until showed clean.
Bore scope showed copper still there, not as much as I started with, but still there.

Next was the wipe-out combo - same thing, still some copper though a couple of spots that were there after Outers were gone.

Worked my way through all of them finding at least some copper left after all until I got to the 29% ammonia.

I let the ammonia sit for 20 minutes then brushed and patched until showed clean.

THAT took care of all of the copper.

In the past, I've used either the Outer's or Wipe-out/Patch-out on this rifle. After cleaning I would need to shoot 5-8 rounds to bring a proven load back in.
Taking it down to the metal like I did, It took 28 rounds before the groups tightened back up.

Not saying one is better or worse than the others as this was a test of one rifle's barrel. But I did find it interesting how many rounds to get back the groups I had after taking this well-used barrel down to the metal.


When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace - Luke 11:21
Suppose you were an idiot... And suppose you were a member of
Congress...But I repeat myself. - Mark Twain
 
Posts: 203 | Location: Back home in Texas | Registered: 20 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Anybody used this: KG-SF-112 Carbon & Copper Fouling Remover ? Interesting...
 
Posts: 155 | Registered: 12 August 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Dentist:
Anybody used this: KG-SF-112 Carbon & Copper Fouling Remover ? Interesting...


Sure. Read this thread.
 
Posts: 1804 | Location: Czech Republic | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Jiri there is the KG 12 - Copper Cleaner and the KG 12 SF 112 Carbon & Copper Fouling Remover. Is was asking if anybody used the second.
 
Posts: 155 | Registered: 12 August 2008Reply With Quote
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Picture of Jiri
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************************************************************
posted 13 January 2017 15:58

I use KG SF-112. It is not maybe as fast as KG-12 with copper removing, but it is useful against carbon fouling too. It is copper.carbon remover in one product.

Works very well for me.

Jiri
************************************************************

So me and my friend here use it since 2014. I use it because it is simple to use and works for me. Works much better than M-Pro 7 copper remover I tried before. I use it for my custom CZ-550 in .375 H&H and .500 S&W revolver.

My friend used it for break in period of his new CZ 557 in 8x57 Mauser. He told me it removes copper easy and it is easy to use. From the beginning he cleaned after each three shots and later he found it stopped fouling at all.
We use Eezox or Hornady One Shot Tap HD Extreme after use of KG SF-112.

Jiri
 
Posts: 1804 | Location: Czech Republic | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of Dentist
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Thank you. Ordered the kg sf- 112 and will try it
 
Posts: 155 | Registered: 12 August 2008Reply With Quote
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Used the kg sf 112 today. I´m impressed. Thanks for the recommendation.
 
Posts: 155 | Registered: 12 August 2008Reply With Quote
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Picture of Jiri
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You are welcome :-)

Jiri
 
Posts: 1804 | Location: Czech Republic | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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NOW YOU'RE LEARNING!!!!

I've been cleaning guns for OVER 65 years using EVERY product that EVER hit the market...some work very well, some not so well...BUT...

Sweets and other ammonia based products or home made mixtures have ALWAYS been the best at copper removal but are JUST NASTY to use and if you learn about barrels and what to do about the roughness in the bore you can keep a barrel "almost" pristine and go an ungodly number of shots before having to "clean out the copper" again....or not bother because you've learned what your barrel's cleaning requirements are.

The problem being not understanding barrel steel and what happens with the various rifling methods, and all the BS that "cleaning product AdMen" go through to keep you buying, buying, buying....and before you get the rope out watch several vids then think about and TRY it...gun cleaning has been beat to death and STILL no consensus...we shooters are just WAY too individualistic to agree on ANYTHING.

This weekend I watched a bunch of YOU-TOOBS on gun cleaning, reasons WHY barrels need or DON'T NEED cleaning, barrel making and the various ways of "installing" lands and grooves, long range shooting out to 5000 yds, reloading and what I call "BENCHREST" prepping and so forth...most of which I learned long ago but the videos reminded me and brought forth lots of memories.

But I felt like Rip Van Winkle just waking up from a 50 year sleep with all the techno-krap gadgets I wish I could afford along with the available super techno-geek rifles I would do bad things to own.

All the "stuff" I've been posting, that I learned over all that time, is now available "In Living Color" on videos that explain the nuances so much better and with NO acrimony, clearly...ONE PICTURE kinda thing...and by several authors WITH clear and concise explanations for each phase.

With ALL this excellent information available I don't know why anyone would want to try to cut through the "normal" BS on forums to try and extract the "meat".

The vids I looked at (and saved some) included several "LONG" range shots on ELK showing just how effective the 6.5 and 7mm caliber BIG cased cartridges are(and the reason I'm building a 28 Nosler and just purchased a 6.5 x 300 Weatherby) and takes ALL the BS arguments(or should, but won't) out of the equation and points up the fact of keeping WHATEVER cartridge you want to use WITHIN the effective range of the bullet, the shooter and the cartridge.

I've been saying a lot of this for a long time but NO ONE listens to "some dumb ol' Phuc, he don' know shi*"...meaning a LOT of the older poster "pioneers" and pioneers that just don't waste time online.

Good hunting tu2 beer
 
Posts: 1211 | Registered: 25 January 2014Reply With Quote
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Picture of Austin Hunter
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Tried Wipe-Out for the first time this weekend. Really like it very Barnes CR-10, the foams, and Sweets. Afterwards, I cleaning the barrel thoroughly and finish with a good saturated patch of corrisonX down the barrel


"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan

"Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians."

Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness.
 
Posts: 2718 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 05 April 2006Reply With Quote
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I've used Wipe-out since it first came out and the Patch-out and Accelerator since they first appeared...Sweets since the late 50's along with "blue goop"...Now, I mostly use TM and/or Shooters choice, Montana copper cleaner and Sweets for badly coppered rifles including old military rifles I acquire, Outers foam works but not as well as Wipe-out(maybe, hard to tell without some kind of control and equally gobbed up shooters), the Wipe-out products, JB and Flitz to "polish" and I try EVERY product that come on the market...I have a shelf 4' long and 12" deep FULL of cleaning products I've tried and use now and again.

Yeah...cleaning a barrel right down to the metal can TOTALLY PHU* up a perfectly acceptable shooting rifle. That fact seems to go out the window every time barrel cleaning comes up.

I clean the rifles I used that year at the end of the shooting season...down to bare metal, oil the bore and put them away. When early spring comes around and the snow has abated somewhat, I clean again, I consult my notes for a particular rifle to see how many shots it takes to "season" the bore...load up that amount and and shoot pine cones...it DOESN'T get cleaned until the season end again...unless it's a small cal and I shoot it a lot, then I only clean it when the "normal" accuracy starts to deteriorate, but NOT down to bare metal, I just get rid of the worst carbon and copper.

EACH RIFLE REQUIRES it's own level of cleaning and unless you keep good notes you WON'T know that point.

I can shoot a lot of rounds in the smaller cals for the most part, but my 17 Rem with a Shilen barrel goes 17-19 then goes to sh**....my 17 FB with a not so good converted 17 RF barrel does over 100 and only requires a couple of swipes with Montana or Patch-out to start bugholing again...velocity difference is ~700 fs.

I've tried K12 several times and a bottle is sitting right next to the Patch-out but I'm just not convinced yet...maybe it cleans too quickly and/or I haven't learned the indicators yet.

Like everything else in this sport, cleaning is a learned activity and can be HIGHLY contentious and is rifle individual for the most part, while we generalize on forums and then it's too late. Frowner Big Grin lol

Good Hunting tu2 beer
 
Posts: 1211 | Registered: 25 January 2014Reply With Quote
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I use Hoppes or Shooters Choice then Sweets. I guess if I had to clean more than 5 or 6 rifles at a time it may get tedious or be a chore but I just line up the rifles that need cleaned in my gun vises and progress down the line.

I follow the directions on the Sweets bottle and by the time I get down to the last rifle its time to clean up the first one.

I did try the Gunslick foam and was not impressed. It seemed to work just okay and a couple of my rifles took 2 applications where Sweets worked fine the first time. Have not tried wipeout or KG 12.
 
Posts: 633 | Location: Camp Verde, AZ | Registered: 05 February 2006Reply With Quote
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