I agree with 'No' on muzzle brakes.

If you feel you need one, you've gone beyond your level of ability for controlling a heavy shooting caliber.

Move down to the next energy level of cartridge and see if you can shoot it accurately without a brake.

quote:

Originally posted by Nick Adams:
I agree with 'No' on muzzle brakes.

If you feel you need one, you've gone beyond your level of ability for controlling a heavy shooting caliber.

Move down to the next energy level of cartridge and see if you can shoot it accurately without a brake.

Welcome to modern technology. The M-14 and M-16 rifles that I was issued in the Army 50 years ago all had flash suppressors on their muzzles.

Muzzle brakes, flash suppressors, and compensators are all simply tubes with holes in their sides that re-direct some of the high pressure gasses out to the sides of the muzzle. The specific size and shape of the holes vary with the desired outcome.

I've cut my shooting down to 4-5,000 rounds per year, but I want every shot to be accurate and I don't like to be punished by recoil.

I would put a muzzle brake on a .22 LR rifle if I thought it would allow me to shoot it more accurately.

Take Hydells options, and his sarcastic advise and shoot your next Cape Buffalo, Hippo, Lion with a smaller caliber without a brake, but do you intend to use 85 gr bullets or 100 gr. bullets in your .243!!

Brakes are great, used properly is the real answer, be polite to your hunting partner or guide, but have ear plugs handy for the shot, the guide is going to be deaf in his old age anyway, don't join him or feed him..but you might hand him a #1.59 set of ear protection and hope he can handle sticking them in his ears while you shoot...or maybe you will have to take them out for him, so he can hear to guide you... Ive never heard so much lame reasoning in my life..

I like Hydell's post as he spoke the truth. We all have different tolerances to recoil. Practice will allow one to become tolerant of heavy recoiling rifles.

I remember reading on the lever action forum of a fella complaining how his Marlin lever rifle in .44 magnum beat him to hell. I still laugh at that.

I've seen brakes on rifles from .30-06 and up. Even a gent down under had brakes cut into the barrels of his fine vintage doubles. I have personally seen a gent in Africa shoot with a brake and destroyed the hearing in one ear of a tracker.

I hate 'em; can't shoot at a range if a fella has a brake next to me. If one needs a brake becase the recoil is too much, just step down in caliber. Using a brake is like the men (?) who buy a .600 rifle but load it to .450 levels as it kicks too much. But they can say they have a .600!
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
We all have different tolerances to recoil. Practice will allow one to become tolerant of heavy recoiling rifles.

THIS! ^^^

Practice is the key to handling a heavy recoiling rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by tarbe:
No brakes for me - but I don't shoot anything larger than 458 Lott in a bolt gun/Falling Block.

I prefer to be nowhere near a rifle with a brake on it.

Well, the above is no longer true.

Just bought a 450 Dakota. No brake on it, either!

I am going to try a lighter weight rifle for buffalo. Tired of carying my 12 lb, 500-110, or .577NE.
I am going to a TC Encore 500 S&W. I can hear you laughing! I am installing a JP Enterprise brake.
Rig is just over 8 lbs and 34 inches long overall. Will shoot 410 grain .500 cal CEB Raptor bullet faster than my 500-110 did last year, which killed 3 buffalo like a sumbitch.
I always wear electronic earmuffs because I can't hear the PH's instructions otherwise.
I noticed that many Ph's are wearing earmuffs now. That's my story and I'm sticking with it. Brian

You can tell how old this thread is, I see more brakes in Safari camp than ever these days..If a ph sez he won't allow them then he better pack up his gear and sell shoes in town!! He is going to go tits up with business...If I were a client and some PH told me or told one of my clients don't hunt with me if your gun has a brake, then I would simply find another safari company, they are a dime a dozen in all of Africa..Ive been booking for manhy of them for a very long time and much of this nonsense is in the mind of the beholder and used to make a point...I don't personally know a PH that turns down business...Time to wake up and get real..Use your brake and your intelligence at the same time..they come off and on..the rest is pure bs...

There is truth to shooting a larger gun to make a "smaller" more tolerant.
Shoot some full house 500 gr. 458's and your peak loaded 340 weatherby's seem mild.
I do not have a gun with a brake. The largest I own are a 470 double and a 458 Lott.
I learned to shoot those.
My last outing to test loads were +2200 FPS 500 gr 458's and some 100 gr 243's.
Shot 20 rounds through the 458 first. Barely felt the 243"s (JUST NOISE)

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
Finally got around to sighting in my Ruger .375.

What a pleasant surprise!

There was no recoil at all to speak of. More like a playful push.

Once I got the bullets on paper at 25 yds (I forgot to bring my laser borsight, it took 7 shots!).

I sighted it in at 50 yds and after one minor scope adjustment I was dead center on the bullseye.

I sighted in using .270 gr Hornady SP-RPs, and after the first bulleye, I switched to a Swift .300 gr A-frame.

That shot just widened the bullseye hole just slightly!

I shot 9 rounds total and had absolutely no physical effects from shooting the rifle off the bench.

When I shoot my .416 Rem Mag off the bench, even though it is a much heavier rifle than the Ruger Guide Gun, I get a headache after about 7 or 8 rounds and my shoulder starts getting a little tender.

I decided to just leave the muzzle brake on, since I am only going to use the rifle for black bear over bait and I will just stuff soft ear plugs in while on stand.

Absolutely amazing how well this muzzle brake works!

The biggest difference I experienced between benchrest shooting the .416 and the .375 with muzzle brake, is that I don't have to concentrate as hard with the .375.

I regularly hit the bullseye at 100yd with the .416 Rem Mag on my first shot, but I have to concentrate more.

With the .375 and the muzzle brake, I can squeeze off the shots fairly quickly without any degradation on accuracy.

However, as all hunters know, when shooting at game, you never feel recoil, regardless of what your are shooting (at least in my experience).

BH63

Just to repeat my findings.

quote:

Muzzle Brakes Yes or No

……………………….NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! DAMN NO!

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My 8.75 pound .505 SRE, 570 grain bullet at 2150 fps, same as the .500 Nitro Express. Do you see a muzzle brake anywhere on it?



I quit shooting my 12 pound .577 VSRE, 750 grain bullet at 2050 fps, not because the recoil was too punishing, but because it shoved me backwards two paces every time I fired it.

My friend, John Buhmiller, once sold me a .50 caliber barrel with his design for a muzzle brake attached. I loaded it up to the same level as the .505, and it did make a difference, but the noise was intolerable and I sold it.

I never noticed recoil shooting at game in any case.

quote:

Originally posted by tarbe:
No brakes for me - but I don't shoot anything larger than 458 Lott in a bolt gun/Falling Block.

I prefer to be nowhere near a rifle with a brake on it.

+1 My 458 Lott shoves more than shocks..No breaks for me but if that is the only way you can shoot go for it

It is not true that everyone can be trained to shoot hard kicking rifles. I have tried and several around here think a 308 is a hard kicker and a 9.3 is positively a tank cannon.
The Brake issue is very simple; they reduce recoil, and increase noise to the ears. At the range everyone is wearing hearing protection so they don't notice them (except for my AR-50 which will clear the range so I always alert everyone) That is mostly concussion. Not as bad as a 106 Recoilless Rifle, which I have also fired off an M151.
Everyone close has to manage both things, simultaneously.
Once everyone involved understands the physics, and takes appropriate action, then the problem is solved.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
My 8.75 pound .505 SRE, 570 grain bullet at 2150 fps, same as the .500 Nitro Express. Do you see a muzzle brake anywhere on it?



I quit shooting my 12 pound .577 VSRE, 750 grain bullet at 2050 fps, not because the recoil was too punishing, but because it shoved me backwards two paces every time I fired it.

My friend, John Buhmiller, once sold me a .50 caliber barrel with his design for a muzzle brake attached. I loaded it up to the same level as the .505, and it did make a difference, but the noise was intolerable and I sold it.



I never noticed recoil shooting at game in any case.

My 470 Heym was 9.6 lbs,I trained well with it before my first buffalo hunt,I had hunted the gun previously,warthogs & such,I too never notice the recoil in the field,but the time required to bring the gun back on target might be longer with a light gun,anyways I added a recoil reducer in the stock after that hunt,my first shot was real close,it was a surprise encounter,we got into a small clearing & there was this big old bull,I shot it in about the time it took me to shoulder my rifle,a frontal shot,by the time I recovered to shoot the left barrel,the buff was less than a couple of yards veering to my left,I shot it again behind the shoulder & heard a pop behind my ear,my ph had put in a shot,that was too close,I was lucky & avoided injury,I thought that I was too slow on the second shot after that hunt & increased the weight of my rifle to better deal with recoil & a quicker recovery time,as to muzzle brakes? given the choice of a big bore with a brake versus a medium bore with no brake,I would choose the big bore

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
My 8.75 pound .505 SRE, 570 grain bullet at 2150 fps, same as the .500 Nitro Express. Do you see a muzzle brake anywhere on it?

That, my friend, is a beautiful big bore, the esthetics of which are refreshingly NOT 'dicked-up' with a bulky muzzle brake hanging off the business end.

quote:

I never noticed recoil shooting at game in any case.

Exactly, ... which is the whole point of hunting (you're focused on the quarry) and precisely why MBs are both unnecessary as well as being an auditory hazard.

On the Con side. They are loud and potentially ear damaging for anyone nearby to the side of you. Unless you were hearing protection hunting (I never do), they can damage your hearing too.

On the Pro side. They reduce recoil by about 50% and you get a nice pink box of Super Absorbent Tampons with each one.

Yeh yeh yeh. I have never hunted with a muzzle brake except one shot taken with a 460 Wby at a water buffalo.
That Japanese Mark V came from the factory with the integral muzzle porting and I was using factory 500-grain loads,
a sign of my early ignorance.

I do love the removable brake for load development and benchrest shooting.
Anyone who does not love a brake just does not do much with big bores,
except pontificate about them.

Rip ...

I'm glad you appreciated my humor Rip You're right I rarely shoot more than 10 rounds at the range through my 500 Jeffery. It's sighted in, you hit the bullseye, you eat the food ... I just don't like muzzle brakes hunting. I see their point on the range.

quote:

Originally posted by Nick Adams:
I agree with 'No' on muzzle brakes.

If you feel you need one, you've gone beyond your level of ability for controlling a heavy shooting caliber.

Move down to the next energy level of cartridge and see if you can shoot it accurately without a brake.

Why do they put them on gas operated 223's? I think they refer to them as "flash suppressors".
Damn AR's are load as sh-t.

I am much more sensitive to the loud noise than the recoil. For that reason, I wear double hearing protection on the range and try to avoid being around anyone firing a rifle with a brake. Our Legendary Arms rifle came with a removable one and a threaded cap. Our shoulders can't tell the difference but it is just a 30-06. At this time in life, I have no need for them and think they turn a nice rifle into an obnoxious (loud) and ugly tool. If others use brakes and like them, good for them and safe shooting.

No

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Why do they put them on gas operated 223's? I think they refer to them as "flash suppressors".
Damn AR's are load as sh-t.

Dude, are you from Oklahoma? ... Have you ever shot a 5.56 AR?

There are flash hiders, and there are actual muzzle brakes.

As loud as a 5.56 AR is with the standard mil-issue A2 FH, the lateral concussive blast from a dedicated MB is far worse. And that blast only gets worse as that 5.56 barrel gets shorter, like down into the 8", 9" or 10" range of Class 3 SBRs.

That's why, over the last 10-to-15yrs, owners of shorty ARs have been spending the $200 (and waiting as much as 18-months) for their second tax stamp so they can shoot their SBRs suppressed.

Brakes are an obvious auditory hazard and should be banned from use when actually hunting.

Hunting with a suppressed rifle, on the other hand, makes huge sense for several reasons (hearing protection being just one), which is why something like 40+ states have legalized it.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
On the Pro side. They reduce recoil by about 50% and you get a nice pink box of Super Absorbent Tampons with each one.

Huge marketing faux pas!
Weatherby would sell a lot more of their ACCUBRAKE-equipped rifles if they packed a box of Kotex PADS along with a box of tampons with each rifle.
True, the tampons can be used for nose bleeds, or ear bleeds, with the muzzle brake installed,
but the KOTEX pads could be used like PAST pads, for the recoil sensitive,
if they ever had to remove the brake.
All bases covered!











No nose bleeds, and I used muffs and purpose-made foam earplugs.
The ACCUBRAKE is very effective. The .416 Wby was like a .30-06 of same weight.
I draw the line at about 200 ft-lbs of free recoil without a brake. That is about where it gets intolerable for me.
I feel a Tarzan yodel coming on.

Rip ...

I've worn glasses pretty much my whole life. I make it a point to ask every doctor who examines my eyes about recoil and detached retinas. I explain that I am shooting a rifle with extremely heavy recoil (460 WBY, 500 gr. at 2410-2550 fps, braked).

Every Optometrist and Ophthalmologist I have ever talked with said detached retinas are due to something else and a heavy recoiling rifle will not cause this.


In two weeks I'm going in for cataract surgery and I will ask the surgeon again about detached retinas and if shooting a heavy recoiler will matter with the acrylic lens they will implant.

I just had double cataract surgery (both eyes) in February. I posed that same question to my Ophthalmologist. He told me that I could carry on shooting any of my rifles after a week. I haven't done so as of yet, but I believe there won't be an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
I just had double cataract surgery (both eyes) in February. I posed that same question to my Ophthalmologist. He told me that I could carry on shooting any of my rifles after a week. I haven't done so as of yet, but I believe there won't be an issue.

I had cataract lens implant surgery at 12 years old...I am 38 now and have shot thousands of rounds a year of competitive sporting clays, multiple big bores, and also played high school football/sports with zero issues. After 26 years I have had zero issues with the lens implant. My ophthalmologist looks at it once a year and says it hasn’t moved.

There is no denying that brakes work. Nor is there any denying that they are painfully loud.

My contention has always been that recoil last bit a fraction of a second and bruised shoulders and cheeks heal quickly, while hearing loss is permanent

Life is certainly more pleasant in some ways without a brake.
Even the spectators, ladies and gents, enjoyed an outing at Wimbledon Commons for running deer:



I am sure a muzzle brake would not be cricket at such events.

Muzzle brakes: Smoke 'em if you got 'em. You are playing with fire.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
There is no denying that brakes work. Nor is there any denying that they are painfully loud.

My contention has always been that recoil last bit a fraction of a second and bruised shoulders and cheeks heal quickly, while hearing loss is permanent

The muzzle brake is tops for calibres like 30/378, 338/378 and 378 and probably add 300, 338 and 375 RUMs and 338 Lapua AND where long range shooting is done. From an improvised rest they let you hold these calibres like you would a 270. It is not about saving pain but greatly limiting rifle movement. I have worn muffs and ear plugs together. Wearing muffs and ear plugs might be a very poor idea if stalking grizzly bear or whatever but I am not talking about that type of shooting.

Brake or no brake are after all personal preference.

My "prefered" muzzle brake is sound suppressor, though of course thats not legal everywhere.

However I already have some ringing in the ears and do not want any more. So I use electronic muffs and/or plugs at all times anyway. So increased noise is not really relevant.
And the main objection to brakes is cosmetics. They may look out of place on a classic safari rifle. But to me they dont have any real downside besides that.

Of course they can be annoying to a PH in Africa, but as Ray mentioned they better expect to see some and better be prepared for it. Either electronic over the ear muffs or perhaps plugs. The new electronic plugs might be better in Africa though more expensive.

Ok what Ive read so far is the bad guys say no brake and use a smaller gun if you can't take the recoil..so go shoot your buffalo with a 22 Hornet and don't wear ear protection!! Bless you Hydell!

The good guys say use the brake like a gentleman and you won't gut shoot your buffalo and get your ungratefull pussy PH to stop crying about the brake on your rifle..

And in 50 years the non brake crowd will suffer bursidas, deafness, retina damage etc. etc because on AR he was lead to believe that an unbraked 458 Lott wouldn't bother his hearing or body at all..

I think that's what Ive read..

I have no problem with muzzle breaks on other folks rifle, as long as they tell me before they shoot in my presences so I can cover my ears.

Back in the 1950s the army put me in a turret with two long barreled 50 cal machineguns on each side of my head, only about 20 inches away from my ears , in an M-16 half track. When you pull the trigger, all four begin firing.

Needless for me to say my ears have been ringing ever since! Now to hear the TV without damaging the ears of the rest of my family, I have to use two hearing aids, and still don't hear clearly !

…………………………………………………..
…………………………………………………

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
I have no problem with muzzle breaks on other folks rifle, as long as they tell me before they shoot in my presences so I can cover my ears.

Back in the 1950s the army put me in a turret with two long barreled 50 cal machineguns on each side of my head, only about 20 inches away from my ears , in an M-16 half track. When you pull the trigger, all four begin firing.

Needless for me to say my ears have been ringing ever since! Now to hear the TV without damaging the ears of the rest of my family, I have to use two hearing aids, and still don't hear clearly !

…………………………………………………..
…………………………………………………

Short answer No!

So Chuck you think shooting a big game rifle of any caliber won't hurt your hearing if you just shoot at game with it? Didn't work on me I went a lifetime without a brake and I now wear two hearing aids, and they don't work worth a flip...Any rifle will damage hearing, why can't some of you get that through your thick skulls, Your sure as hell gonna pay the piper on that score..

Brakes are loud no doubt, but how many of you have done a comparison under controlled conditions, You obviously havn't or you'd be saying "What" "What", "What" like me..Toda I like the brake and I use it properly, but I fear its too little,too late..and I guarantee many of you on this thread will suffer the same in time, and like me, probably varying degrees of bursitis in the neck and shoulder..

The bursitis can be controlled with a shot now and then, the hearing has no good fix. My reasoning was I wanted to hear whats going on especially with DG..Good idea to keep one alive I suppose that takes precident, but 99 times out of 100 you have time to stick those plugs that hang on a string around your neck in your ears as does those around you which is usually a PH and maybe one observer..On the other hand if your just a normal hunter after a deer or elk, I see no reason for company, company being another hunter should be at least a 100 yards off to your side, so you can cover more ground..In Africa when its time to close everyone should have a seat, so you and your PH can quitly close on the animal or that's the way Ive done it.I see these long strings of people closing on a buffalo herd or elephant herd, and I get pissed, what a way to foul a shot...Just another point of view and that's the way I do it, Don't care how others do it if it makes the happy campers.

Its an old page that ain't gonna quit here on AR, or sitting around any campfire, too many folks done made up their head!

Hi Ray, I don't wear hearing protection when I'm big game hunting, even when I guided. I always wear muffs and foamies when at the range or just plinking on our land.

I used to hunt (small and big game) almost 100 days / year. Unfortunately since I had to get a real job 30 years ago, I don't fire enough big game rounds at game to have to worry about ear damage. Believe it or not the high pitched crack of the 270 Weatherby hurts more than the boom of the 500 Jeffery.

I don't doubt your experience, I never do. The only times my ears have ever rung for any period of time was when a guide was shooting a 300 RUM with a brake next to me. I hate brakes.

Hay Chuck, I know what your sayiny, but it just takes one shot under the correct conditions to ruin your hearing, that can happen with braked or unbraked guns...Mine happened when a youngster cracked off his 30-30 while standing behind me and off to the side a tad and the barrel was about a foot from my ear..He wasn't supposed to shoot until I told him to and him being 20 years old I assumed he had more experience than he proclaimed..I was trying to locate horns on the animal thru my binocs, The suspence got to him, he got excited, and shot at an illegal doe, thank goodness he missed by a couple of yards..I gave him back to his dad..but in all respect we roll the dice and play the game..As for me I am probably immune from this thread, I can't hear well enough to be concerned with or without a brake.. and a cortazone shot in the shoulders every year or so, some of which is from roping and some from shooting gun not ment for mankind!

I wish you good hunting, roping and shooting, hoping you have many good years before you. I've not been able to do much lately, not due to health, but my family needing me at home, but things are looking up. Looking forward to hunting and fly fishing this year!

Years ago I had a Savage SST/synthetic 458 with their on/off muzzle break(forgot what they called it). Those guns never seemed to get a lot of accolades but I liked it. Open the brake when practicing and range use & simply reach up and turn it off when hunting with a guide. Not much POI change at all and was handy. Gave it away as a tip. Wish I'd have hung on to it now. The only 458 I have left now is a beauty of a Ruger 77 tang safety blued/walnut. Love that gun with Hornady 500 interlocs. Looks Hornady stopped making them. That's a shame. I loved them on local stuff like pigs---deer etc. Put an arm size hole through a pig stem-to-stern once with one