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I m currently a student at on of the local community collages. I m in roled in the machining program. (kvcc.me.edu)
So here is where my idea comes in.
I have to do a work study, found out I can work with a local gun smith. Which is out standing!

I have to come up with a final project to do where I will be using many skills I learned over the 2 year program.
I have been approved already to make a swage press. So I am looking to see if there are any blue prints out there any ones knows of? Or if there is anything else I should do/know of for this project?
I will not be starting the project until at least next year so I have time to do all my research. I will take photos of the process as I go along.
I know 303Guy is a machinist so I m waiting to see what he has for some input!


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Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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make it hydrolic (sp)... and of your own design .. study the corbin presses and figure it out.. hint.. emergecny stop and dual action is a must.

then again, mac might be able to help you out


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 36185 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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after swaging bullets for awhile i really have to agree with jeffeosso - make it hydraulic
 
Posts: 13217 | Location: faribault mn | Registered: 16 November 2004Reply With Quote
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Jeffe, What do you mean by dual action?


Happiness is a warm gun
 
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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most cylinders are single action .. you put pressure on one end, and "back" pressure or gravity push it back down. MOST are single action .. a bottle jack is a perfect example... when you stroke it, it goes up when you release it, it goes down ... but if you turn it on its side and release it with no load? not much happens.

if you have to back out the ram on a press, you MUST be able to, with pressure and intent, back it out at any stage!

why? safety and material destruction.. how many times have you stopped your reloading repress/swage from finishing that stroke to back out, align, and do it again, to prevent your hand from being crushed, the ase, the die, the jacket?

worst case scenero .. you have your finger caught at 7/8 stroke, and there is LOTS of friction in the work.. aka seating cores or point forming a .510 ...

now, you hand is stuck, the ram is stuck, and in a single the ONLY way to get free is to Estop and take everything apart, IF there is no residual pressure that may still crush your hand.

with dual action (push+pull), estop, reverse, ram goes down, hand comes out, and you live to reload another day


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 36185 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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I agree now that I understand. I just didnt understand what you meant. Thanks.


Happiness is a warm gun
 
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Make it hydraulic and two speed (and two direction). Since you're making it, it might be easier to have a separate jacking in pump and jacking out pump. That way you don't have to mess with double acting cylinders. Not sure which is easier. I am about to design and build a hydraulic swage press. So I am also looking for ideas!


Regards
303Guy
 
Posts: 2518 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 October 2007Reply With Quote
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Safety is key consideration. Take a cue from large forging presses, and large deep drawing machines. Default position should always be open unless actuated by the operator. This means that the press operator presses a button (better yet 2 buttons, both hands safe) to actuate and releases the button to return to open. If there is an accident all you need to do is release the button and the press will open.

Look at a hydraulic supply catalog. They have the power units, valves, hoses, and cylinders needed to build just about any hydraulic system known to man.

http://www.automationstore.com/

If you want to do a manual pump system you can also use valves to change the direction of the cylinder without having to resort to 2 systems.

Hydraulics can exert huge ammounts of force so be sure you put in a healthy safety factor into all load bearing components.
 
Posts: 31 | Registered: 25 April 2008Reply With Quote
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Hey guys thanks! These are good things to keep in mind.
303 When you get online jump on the chat for this sight. I will be in the reloading chat. We can run some ideas by each other.
Sense I m a up and coming machinist I will need all the help I can get. This project for me will not be done any time soon. I have 2 years to develop it and make it using the skills I have learned in class.
If I am in the chat and do not respond I am AFK and will be back, sometime. :P


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Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by bernieb90:
Safety is key consideration. Take a cue from large forging presses, and large deep drawing machines. Default position should always be open unless actuated by the operator. This means that the press operator presses a button (better yet 2 buttons, both hands safe) to actuate and releases the button to return to open. If there is an accident all you need to do is release the button and the press will open.

Look at a hydraulic supply catalog. They have the power units, valves, hoses, and cylinders needed to build just about any hydraulic system known to man.

http://www.automationstore.com/
Thanks for the word of caution!

If you want to do a manual pump system you can also use valves to change the direction of the cylinder without having to resort to 2 systems.

Hydraulics can exert huge ammounts of force so be sure you put in a healthy safety factor into all load bearing components.


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Hunter, trapper, machinest, gamer, angler, and all around do it your selfer.
Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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I've been thinking about my swage press and have chatted to a designer and have come up with an idea. It's purely levers and linkages - no hydraulics. I'll keep you you posted as I progress.


Regards
303Guy
 
Posts: 2518 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 October 2007Reply With Quote
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sweet deal post photos!


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
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Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 303Guy:
I've been thinking about my swage press and have chatted to a designer and have come up with an idea. It's purely levers and linkages - no hydraulics. I'll keep you you posted as I progress.


in MY opinion, this would be a waste of time. The wear patterns alone would drive me nuts, and have no advantage over (rather cheaply) available commerical presses. Hydro is THE way to go, if you are going to bother to build one


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 36185 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
quote:
Originally posted by 303Guy:
I've been thinking about my swage press and have chatted to a designer and have come up with an idea. It's purely levers and linkages - no hydraulics. I'll keep you you posted as I progress.


in MY opinion, this would be a waste of time. The wear patterns alone would drive me nuts, and have no advantage over (rather cheaply) available commerical presses. Hydro is THE way to go, if you are going to bother to build one

What kind of ware patterns would there be?


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
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Hunter, trapper, machinest, gamer, angler, and all around do it your selfer.
Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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a mechincal advantage press would have to have 2 or 3 caming surfaces ... make it a htdro and forget about all that mess.. and make certain its a 2 way cyl.


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 36185 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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Mmmm .... I'm tending to agree! I would want a two speed pump though. I'm not sure how they work nor how to make a simple stroke reversal system. I'm thinking that a hydraulic press could be real compact and would not need to be bolted down (if designed right).

Jeffeosso, do you have any designs and/or concepts for us?

I'm thinking that for two speed and double acting, one could use the differencial volume between the forward and return to achieve the two speed. It's the valving that I'm not sure about.


Regards
303Guy
 
Posts: 2518 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 October 2007Reply With Quote
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If i did, (grin) I would send you pics of the results .. look at the corbin sites and their hydro presses... and it would have a foot switch that operated it .. if i let go, it would stop .. I've smashed my fingers bad enough with a manual press!


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 36185 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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I was thinking of hand powered hydraulics! Big Grin My idea is to use the flexibility of hydraulics and absence of links and cams to build a compact bench top device with a single hand pump like a hydraulic bottle jack and a valve that allows fast stroking, high pressure stroking and fast return stroking.


Regards
303Guy
 
Posts: 2518 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 October 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 303Guy:
I was thinking of hand powered hydraulics! Big Grin My idea is to use the flexibility of hydraulics and absence of links and cams to build a compact bench top device with a single hand pump like a hydraulic bottle jack and a valve that allows fast stroking, high pressure stroking and fast return stroking.

Now we are on the same page!
In talking with my machine shop instructor he pointed out something interesting.
In the shop there is a small hand hydrolic pump operated press, in the welding "lab" there is a press as well but its about somewhere around 7' tall but uses the slightly larger jack but same pump.
The press in the machine shop is not more then 2' tall. It is also capable of pressures well over 2 tun. It is desined to worpe metal in testing. The 7' press is made to bend steel plates into a u shape in testing welds.
I have used both tools.
I cant amagen it would be too hard to make a setup just like the small one and that is capable of doing about the same jobs.
This press is just like the one in my shop with the expition of the pump sitting on the table next to the press.
http://www.northerntool.com/we..._200332763_200332763


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Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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Hey, guys!!! Reading your posts about hydrolic, double acting cylinder, two stage pump, you just described to a T my 27 ton log/wood splitter. Cost about $1600 at Home Depot.. runs with a 5HP Honda gas engine.. HTH Les
 
Posts: 419 | Location: Wyoming/ Idaho, St Joe river | Registered: 17 November 2005Reply With Quote
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damn dude, thats a shittun of cash!
It could have been cheaper to make your own!

I will post a rough blueprint of the machine I was would like to make. Best thing about posting on here is you guys with much more expearence then myself can help me work out the finer deals.

First question. When putting the frame together, should I use welded angle iron, use welded tubing, or compressed tubing using nuts and full length threaded bars internally compressing the unit together. Using the that last set would make for easy transport if you moved your equipment around allot. Which I dont intend on doing.


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Hunter, trapper, machinest, gamer, angler, and all around do it your selfer.
Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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a 110v high volume pump will set you back about 150 bucks on evilbay ...


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 36185 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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What kind of frame would work best when making your own hydrolic press? Welding is not an issue, nor bending pipe.
I m thinking welded angle steel, set with 2 peaces layed for feet, 2 up on each side then 2 accost the top then same on the bottom, then just fill in the middle Wink
As I said I still have another 3 1/2 semesters to work this out.


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
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Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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Working with Hydrolics you are going to first decide how much force is needed, then the size of your pump in psi, and what size cylinder you are going to use. A fairly small size cylinder will twist angle easy. a pump producing 1500 psi will produce 1500 psi on every sq in of cylinder surface ie, on a 3 in cylinder you could have 10500 lb of force.


"An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a slave", Ceasar
 
Posts: 211 | Location: NW OHIO | Registered: 15 March 2005Reply With Quote
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How's progress?
 
Posts: 39 | Registered: 16 November 2006Reply With Quote
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I v but it on hold just for a little while until I can really get a handle on my school work. I m telling you that trig can be a bitch if you forget the formulas!
Once I get it up on AutoCAD I will post it for advice.


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Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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Self contained hydraulic pump systems are cheap on Ebay. Although they might be 12 volt in some cases.

John coffee


Give me COFFEE and nobody gets hurt
 
Posts: 1608 | Location: San Antonio, Texas | Registered: 04 January 2010Reply With Quote
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I m still in the planing due to training. I emailed David Corben and asked him about a few things, and he told me he uses a 20 ton hydrolic pump.
But I will be looking into this more. I will post pix of my autocad prints.
james


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Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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Dose anyone have any recommendations for a frame for said project?
I was thinking angle iron on the sides an a 3/4" stock for the 2 cross members? On the side I would have the pump attached and running from 110V power system.
I m hoping to find a hydrolic pump that runs in both directions.
I emailed david corben and he said he uses a 20 ton hydrolic pump to run his press. I m going to hit up a few junk yards for cheap pump and piston.
any advice or concerns?


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
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Hunter, trapper, machinest, gamer, angler, and all around do it your selfer.
Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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If I remember correctly my dad's press had the frame made of channel iron that was welded back to back to form an "I" beam with a double web. Dad probably did that because channel was cheaperh than "I" beam. It was a big huge press and nothing ever moved so I guess it worked out. I'm pretty sure angle iron would bend as already mentioned.
 
Posts: 2763 | Registered: 11 March 2004Reply With Quote
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I have the frame all setup on AutoCAD and am now working on the piston housing. Now I m wondering how it would best work out as an action to run the piston.
I was thinking about using gears for one thought. But that is allot of pressure on the teeth. But if I was to make wider gears maybe 1" wide made from cold role steel then case harden? To lighten them make releaf cuts.
I also thought about using hydrolics but I really don't know what I m doing there and I don't know anyone who dose.
(although I have had hydrolics 101 from training in the army)
I do know phnumadics do not have enough nut behind it to run the equipment unless it was worked into running the gears.
I will post photos later today of the print as is in progress.
ALL feed back welcome!


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Hunter, trapper, machinest, gamer, angler, and all around do it your selfer.
Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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on the frame .. you know, 1" plate would make a darn good frame .. a 1"x6"x 3 or 4 foot section wouldn't cost much ... channel is SOFT


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 36185 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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my idea for a frame is 4x 1" round stock. Cut turned down to .750" with use of 3/4-14UNC threaded on both ends. The bottom will be threaded straight into the bottom and the top will be fastened with nuts.
1" flat stock on top and 1.50" on bottom cut down to 1.250".


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
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Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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You guys might take a look at Enerpac (or Chinese knock-off) pumps and cylinders. They operate at 10ksi rather than the 2-3kis so cylinders are smaller, double acting cylinders are common. The auto body guys use this type of stuff so you can sometimes find used hand pumps and cylinders fairly cheap. Start with a hand pump until you get the bugs worked out then advance to electric. Remember you only get 1 set of fingers+eyes!
C.G.B.
 
Posts: 985 | Registered: 25 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Alright, the last time I talked hydrolics I was in the army learning the recoil mech. for the artillery. But now I m sure this is just a wee bit different.
I m in need of help with the hydrolics and maybe a finger in to the right direction for a self education in the subject.
Thanks for all the help, you guys have been great!
James


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
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Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by James Kain:
ALL feed back welcome!


While you're in school look into a spelling class.
 
Posts: 385 | Location: Brunswick, GA | Registered: 15 April 2005Reply With Quote
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A 3-phase electric motor is easy to change speed on: From star to triangle with the flip of a switch.
Use a standard 4-6 ton auto vertical jack and some heavy return springs (1 ton or more?) Then it only needs to be a one way system, and as soon as the button is released it will return to zero.

A power steering servo pump is a good candidate.

My $0.02
 
Posts: 1090 | Location: Denmark | Registered: 15 October 2001Reply With Quote
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Getting here late.
.
You could run it as an air over hydraulic in the power stroke overriding compressed air that acts as a return spring.
.
No pump. Completely closed hydraulic system once it is set up.
.
Runs on clean compressed air and hydraulic pressure is set by a cheap air regulater.
.
The 2 button safety valves can all be pneumatic.
.

Let me know if you need help in this direction.
.
One hyraulic hose and the rest cheap air hoses keep the cost down.
 
Posts: 317 | Location: South Central PA | Registered: 11 November 2010Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 257x50:
Getting here late.
.
You could run it as an air over hydraulic in the power stroke overriding compressed air that acts as a return spring.
.
No pump. Completely closed hydraulic system once it is set up.
.
Runs on clean compressed air and hydraulic pressure is set by a cheap air regulater.
.
The 2 button safety valves can all be pneumatic.
.

Let me know if you need help in this direction.
.
One hydraulic hose and the rest cheap air hoses keep the cost down.



Wow any help would be great. I have a few ideas but as I go I seem to run into a few technical problems that I have little to no knowledge of.

I can setup a pneumatic system, its pretty straight forward. But, with hydraulics I start getting in deep water.
The big stopper is; how do I get it to stop the stroke in the same place every time, or do I set it to max out every time.
Drop me a email or friend me on facebook with my email:
sharpscarbine@gmail.com


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
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Hunter, trapper, machinest, gamer, angler, and all around do it your selfer.
Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by kend:
quote:
Originally posted by James Kain:
ALL feed back welcome!


While you're in school look into a spelling class.

Pop shots not welcome. flame

beer


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
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Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
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