quote:

It is not his decision anymore! As...lion hunting is now closed in Zambia. Partly due to pressure from anti's due to poor practices in the past.

There are no rules here dictating Lion hunting so I wonder what the poor practices were?

Hunting has tried to be banned in its entirety and yes there has been heavy pressure from antis. Similar to Botswana.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

It would not be a bad thing if LCTF introduced this policy?

Andrew,
Specifically...which policy are you referring to?

The taking of pride males.

How would you change what we have already written?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

It is not his decision anymore! As...lion hunting is now closed in Zambia. Partly due to pressure from anti's due to poor practices in the past.

There are no rules here dictating Lion hunting so I wonder what the poor practices were?

Hunting has tried to be banned in its entirety and yes there has been heavy pressure from antis. Similar to Botswana.

The practice of harvesting sub-adults.

Lane,

To Joe Public a Lion is a Lion and if it difficult for us experts to age them then I doubt the rest of the world can tell the difference between a sub adult and one of maturity?

I suspect the shooting of a male from a pride will be frowned upon in the future. The advertising and filming of the act could be damaging.

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Lane,

To Joe Public a Lion is a Lion and if it difficult for us experts to age them then I doubt the rest of the world can tell the difference between a sub adult and one of maturity?

I suspect the shooting of a male from a pride will be frowned upon in the future. The advertising and filming of the act could be damaging.

Cheers

Andrew,
I can see your point. I was shocked after your answer to Mark's question that it was fine to shoot a pride male KNOWN to have cubs. That is why I posted what I did in Aaron's hunting thread. I wish you would pick a side of the fence and stay there.

But...we walk a tight-rope. That 'definition' I banter around all the time and DSC adopted...was hammered out by me on my computer in my office. That short blurb takes a good typist less than a minute to type. It took me a year to get the wording to where all of those scientists would put there names on it. BUT...it took me almost 2 years to get a major org to adopt. Why??? Two words...John Jackson...He did NOT like the fact that it was so restrictive on taking pride males. He lobbied against it hard.

The real research says that if the lions are 6 or greater when harvested...it does not matter if they came from a pride or not.

So...the definition was written as is... which I think is good.

Now...in regards to your young lion pic comment. On June 26th, 2013...the USF&W is hosting the African Lion Workshop. The data presented there will be the last of the data gathering before the 'Final Decision' is made. Five animal rights groups got invited to do power point presentations. If you were there...you will see slide after slide after slide of pics of young lions being shown with an expert giving an age range. You will likely even see the now infamous 'Wrldhunter' lion.

So...I disagree with your thoughts on young lion pics.

quote:

in regards to your young lion pic comment. On June 26th, 2013...the USF&W is hosting the African Lion Workshop. The data presented there will be the last of the data gathering before the 'Final Decision' is made. Five animal rights groups got invited to do power point presentations. If you were there...you will see slide after slide after slide of pics of young lions being shown with an expert giving an age range. You will likely even see the now infamous 'Wrldhunter' lion.

Lane,

Who is the expert?

Lane,

Your presentation to USW&F - What expert backing will LCTF have on board?

Cheers

Andrew

There will be a group of them there to agree or disagree. Among them will be Paula White, Luke Hunter, and Craig Packer. I would be surprised if Karyl Whitman was not there in some capacity. And there may be others.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Lane,

Your presentation to USW&F - What expert backing will LCTF have on board?

Cheers

Andrew

Andrew,
This is an invitation only workshop. The only pro-hunting groups officially invited thus far are SCI and Conservation Force. LCTF is on the standby list but we have NOT been officially invited. Beside the two mention...others invited are Paula White, Craig Packer, and Luke Hunter...whom I see as independent. Then HSUS, Born Free, Lion-Aid, and 2 others on the original petition will be there for the anti's.

We hope to still be invited...but it looks doubtful at this stage for LCTF.

And we have Zig's film that will no doubt play an important part?

Shame that LCTF was not recognised as a player.

Cheers

Andrew

quote:

Partly due to pressure from anti's due to poor practices in the past.

Good thing those "anti's" are looking out for the lions. Man, If we could just get those scumbag hunters to kill the animals the anti's approve of, they would quit being anti's?

quote:

Shame that LCTF was not recognised as a player.

perhaps the "anti's" at the symposium would be interested in debating the CEO of the LCTF blowing a hole in a pride male last month? I am sure Lane and Aaron could convince them that Aaron "knows what he is doing".

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
And we have Zig's film that will no doubt play an important part?

Shame that LCTF was not recognised as a player.

Cheers

Andrew

Zig's film is already in the past with USF&W. John is gonna get 15 min to speak. He may use clips but that is it.