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When a hunting bullet completely penetrates an animal and exits...
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted
...just how far does it go.

I know of course it all depends and of course we know folks get two-fers on pigs quite often so obviously they have enough velocity to penetrate kill something within say 6 inches.

But another post got me to thinking, the expanded bullet has obviously shed a lot velocity and has a horrible BC and is likely only 18-30 inches off the ground...how far good it go 20, 30, 50 feet?

Anybody know of any tests that have been done with ballistic gel?

Anybody ever found a bullet on the ground X # of feet behind their kill?


Inquiring minds want to know!


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9262 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I have found 45 ACP full metal jacket 230 grain bullets 12 feet behind a full penetrated gallon milk jugs.

The bullet had skimmed a shallow ditch. The bullet was setting on top of that lose dirt.
 
Posts: 3502 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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I watched my son shoot two small feral goats, a left and right, from about 150 yds with a .270W shooting Hornady SST 130 gn bullets. He was shooting slightly downhill and the goats were standing on some fairly clean clay ground. Each was killed with a shoulder shot. We walked up to them and saw both shots went through completely. My son looked around and found where both bullets penetrated into the clay and was able to dig both out. Each had gone about 2 metres past each goat. I think they would have gone further if the shooting angle was flatter. As far as I could tell, even after opening, expanding and penetrating completely each bullet continued tracking fairly straight.


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 1028 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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Were they very deep in the clay?


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9262 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Just texted my son and asked. He said about only 1 inch.


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 1028 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
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Picture of Scott Powell
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Well back in the ‘90s I shot a bull caribou in Alaska. When I walked up to him I found him and a dead cow that was right behind him that I did not see..

300 Win Mag 180 partition - the bullet was still in the cow.

Thank god I had two tags!

Learned my lesson on hunting in herds!!


"At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein
 
Posts: 543 | Location: Akron, OH | Registered: 07 March 2006Reply With Quote
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I have found 2 bullets that had exited.
One was a 150 gr 308 Federal blue box. Shot a doe at 130 yards through the shoulders. Next week was sitting where she had been standing and looked down to see the bullet was just laying there. Took me a second to figure out it was from her.
Second was a 70gr TSX out of a 5.56. Shot a hog through the shoulders at 230 yds. Bullet was laying 10 feet behind it in the road.
I figure those were 1 in a million finds.

Perry
 
Posts: 2094 | Location: South Texas | Registered: 01 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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Thanks Perry


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9262 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Yes, we have .

Several times actually!

All these were our own 300 grain Walterhog bullets in the 375/404.

Topi, standing on an anthill. about 150 yards away, quartering towards us.

He dropped straight down at the shot.

When we picked him up, we found the bullet in the ground.

We have had this happen several times with buffalo, where the bullet was found within a couple of yards where the animal fell.

This is called perfect bullet performance!


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 52626 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Picture of Fury01
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Nope but I have looked a few times. For better or worse, I have assumed that well expanded cup and cores don’t go far after leaving the animal. Hunting in thick cover assumed not much of anything goes far. I have had 22 long rifle Whiz through a rabbit and heard it zing off into the air after ricocheting off a rock.
I have also hunted around stock animals enough to be careful of shooting angles and background. Thankfully never had a problem.
Back in the young and stupid days I shot an old tractor tire laying in the ground with a 45 LC and 250 sw cast bullet at about 850 FPS and it went through side one hit side two which tossed it back to be as if someone threw it underhand to me. Still have that one somewhere in a box.


"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
 
Posts: 1892 | Location: Where God breathes life into the Amber Waves of Grain and owns the cattle on a thousand hills. | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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I thought finding the bullet after it fully penetrated the animal was an anomaly but evidently not from the above posters experiences.

In my case I made a follow up shot on a friend's moose to keep it from leaving the lake shore where it would be easy to break down. The moose was about 300 yards away. The 300 gr SAF fully penetrated and was lying on the beach just feet from the moose. I have the bullet still.

Mark


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Posts: 11730 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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Saw a fellow administer the coup de grace standing over a fallen cow elk using a midrange load with a cast lead bullet from a .41 Magnum. The bullet was found on the surface of the ground underneath the elk's head.

Not exactly the circumstance your question anticipates, but technically an applicable answer.

So far as high-velocity rifle bullets traveling more or less horizontally, I think things might vary a great deal depending on how much and what type of expansion and whether the bullet was deflected from its original vector by bone or other animal matter. A bullet could emerge traveling only a few hundred fps, but at a high angle which might take it tumbling for a couple of hundred yards. By the same token, an FMJ could penetrate an animal skylighted above the shooter on a ridge and possibly travel a thousand-plus yards before falling to earth.
 
Posts: 12594 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Earlier this year, I went to my place to do a variety of things. I went to check on one camera but decided to take a look before I went in. There was a bunch of hogs.

I put the slip on them and shot this red boar hog from about 55 yards if I recall correctly. I clearly hit him hard but in about 3 steps he was gone. Into the thick stuff.

I went down to take a look. Surprisingly, I found no blood. I was 99.99% sure he was dead given the way he ran off as well as the noises I heard. I kept looking then a noticed an unusual colored item laying in the dirt. I walked over. It was the 180 grain Swift A-Frame from my 30-06. I was shocked.

I have heard similar stories before. I never believed them . I do now.
 
Posts: 10482 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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A few years ago I shot a bison on a ranch in Texas with my Model 70 in 416 Rem Mag. Using my handload of the Speer 350 Hot-Cor at 2600 fps, I took a neck shot at about 25 yards. The buff dropped immediately, and we could hear the slug ricochet through the trees at the other end of the field about 200 yards away. The shot was from a seated position, so the point of impact was very slightly higher than the muzzle. I don't know if the bullet glanced off the ground first, or if it made it to the trees directly, but it still had plenty of "oomph" when it got there.
 
Posts: 338 | Registered: 07 January 2012Reply With Quote
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I have recovered bullets from a hillside after penetrating an animal, and from trees too.

Many times.

Halve killed a warthog standing behind a tree - his color and the tree were the same, making think he was in front rather than behind the tree.

The tree was about 8 inches across.

Bullet went straight through and killed him.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 52626 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Picture of jeffeosso
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Mike,
I have a very different opinion on this one that it only going inches, or feet. Heck, we were hunting with Dustoffer when i had this bias confirmed.

You had shot a hog, some great distance away from me, and I heard the ricochet whine for several seconds after the shot. IIRC, the bullet was a barnes something or other, and likely made a prototype fidget spinner shape!

but what really set this from "hhmmm" to a set opinion was with one of my muzzle loaders. I was teaching my youngest son and soon to be so n-inlaw how to shoot muzzleloaders on my lease. said lease was, of course, full of pine trees.. well, long story short, even though it's an amusing tale, we were shooting down, into a creek, and one of the boys' shoots ricocheted. .583 conical, i think 550-600 gr.. and something like 150 yards away, it hit pretty high up in the trees, and cut through the upper trunk .. about 2.5" thick, as I watched it fall, and we walked over to see.

this was in the days prior to cheap digital cameras, so no pics, sorry..

by the by, this exact same day we observed this that bullet would only penetrate roughly 5 inches in dry creek bed sand.


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 34860 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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I've shot more than 40 deer with my .338/.378 Weatherby which is set up for long range shooting and I use the Nosler 225-grain Accubond bullet as it expands well past 700 yards. I've recovered only two bullets. One went through a deer, front end to back end at 618 yards and I could see where it entered a snow drift behind the deer. It was only a couple inches in the snow, expanded to about .60 caliber and had a remaining weight of 121 grains. The other went through a deer in the lung area shot at 625 yards. About 50 yards or more behind this deer I found another dead deer with the exiting bullet having gone through its neck and lodged under the skin on the far side. This bullet was expanded to about .50 caliber and had a remaining weight of 154 grains. This was back when we had a January rifle season for antlerless deer with lots of available permits so getting two with one shot was not a problem. In fact I had tried for two with one shot several times but failed. I think the exiting bullets changed direction somewhat when traveling through the animal in front of the second one.
 
Posts: 264 | Registered: 25 November 2005Reply With Quote
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on a different angle --
many of us have had "two-fer" hog shots.. some 3s,,, me, the most was 4 ... 416 rem, range was about 20 yards, as I had sneaked up on a sounder, from first to last was 3-4 feet .. so, it was certainly still lethal at 4 feet, as it exited all 4


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 34860 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
on a different angle --
many of us have had "two-fer" hog shots.. some 3s,,, me, the most was 4 ... 416 rem, range was about 20 yards, as I had sneaked up on a sounder, from first to last was 3-4 feet .. so, it was certainly still lethal at 4 feet, as it exited all 4


A three-fer for me with a 375 H&H.
 
Posts: 22 | Registered: 03 August 2020Reply With Quote
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I've got quite a few doubles shooting prairie dogs and when I was a kid I got a double on snapping turtles with my 7MM Weatherby. I guess the one on the bottom was the female.
 
Posts: 264 | Registered: 25 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of Bwana_500
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I know a guy here in Australia who is pretty pedantic about finding his bullet after the shot whether it is in the animal or a pass through. He carries one of these, and has pretty good success finding bullets with it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gp-Po...0:g:ChEAAOSwWJ5fEeb2
 
Posts: 358 | Location: Australia | Registered: 03 September 2006Reply With Quote
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Our game wardens in Iowa have metal detectors or at least did a few years ago.
 
Posts: 264 | Registered: 25 November 2005Reply With Quote
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will very much depend on type of animal, whether it goes through both shoulders or just rib cage, then cartridge, calibre and bullet weight and construction.

I use either a 243 or a 7mm, with both cup and core type bullet or an expanding copper bullet.

I mostly get an exit wound, I always make sure there is a solid clear backdrop behind the animal. A couple of times I have shot beast that are on a knoll 100 yards in front of a mountain side. Very clear bullet strike on mountain side with significant impact in the dirt and that's after go through a red hind. I have on occasion had a bullet change direction within an animal - usually it has been deflected of a rib or something.

I saw a article a couple of years in a German Hunting Magazine. They had been looking and scatter pattern after a bullet going through a boar. This is a problem as they often shoot a boar that is in a group. They position a dead pig and them shot through this, with plastic sheeting a good way behind. As well as the bullet, there is quite a lot of scatter of bullet and bone fragments up to 30 / 40 metres behind and in arc 45 degrees either side of the bullet path.

Basically the findings are don't shoot a pig that is in a group that has others anywhere down range of it. Whilst they might not be hit by the bullet they will likely be hit by high velocity shrapnel. If you are shooting one in a group make sure it is the far side of the group.
 
Posts: 775 | Location: Scotland | Registered: 28 February 2011Reply With Quote
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I have found a 450gr cast bullet fired from my 45-70 buried about 3 inches into a pine tree that was about 40-50yds behind the 10 gallon water jugs I had shot.
I have never thought to look for the bullet after shooting an animal when I see a pass through.
 
Posts: 651 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: 23 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of Snellstrom
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When I shot a Kudu in RSA I was using a 338 Win Mag with Sierra 225 ProHunters going 2845 fps. The Bull was about 200 yards away perfect broadside shot top of the heart. My PH commented on such a huge puff of dust behind the animal that he thought I overshot it. When we got over there there was a pretty good groove in the ground and the bullet had bounced out after about a 12" trough. Seemed like it still had a lot of killing power after leaving the animal.
 
Posts: 5497 | Location: Eastern plains of Colorado | Registered: 31 October 2005Reply With Quote
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Was on a prairie dog shoot in South Dakota with a group in 1999. Was our third day at 800 - 1,000 yard distances. One of the guys in a group was blazing away with his new load of 6.5- 284 with 120 gr Sierra bullets. Passed right through or over all the dogs and was raining hell down on cattle about a mile away.

Three cows were put down at $3,000 apiece. Was an expensive shoot.

Always plan on a pass through - even if you think you know what you're doing.


___________________

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November 3rd, National Neuter A Liberal Day.
 
Posts: 22015 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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Opus,

Can you help me with the trajectory and bullet flight in your scenario? Even 300 yards beyond a 1000 yard target the bullet has dropped over 20 ft.


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9262 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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South Dakota is quite hilly in spots and MatchKings are not the most frangible bullet comes to find out.


___________________

After 47 Years Joe Suddenly Has All The Answers.
November 3rd, National Neuter A Liberal Day.
 
Posts: 22015 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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So you are saying what? the prairie dogs were above or below the shooter? and cattle were above or below the prairie dogs?


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9262 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
Ok, here is one for you gentlemen to work out.

One bullet.

Two elephants.

A year apart.

Two different rifles! rotflmo


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 52626 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
Saeed,

Too easy. You recovered the bullet. It had little deformation and reloaded it or had slight deformation and was say a 416 and turned it down to 375.

You see (I am part elephant) and remember you posting that story.


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9262 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
So you are saying what? the prairie dogs were above or below the shooter? and cattle were above or below the prairie dogs?


The farmer who was conducting the shoot had three separate groups on his property. The farmer was with our group and not present when all this went down. From what I understand the shooter was either at or slightly elevated to the dog condo, and then there was a big drop off behind the dogs. The shooter did not realize there was a drop off and the cattle were in the area. To the shooters defense, we were all told there were no cattle in the area so no worries.

I don't know if bullets were skipping or were passing over or through the dogs and over the drop off. Doesn't really matter as the shooter is responsible for every bullet send down range.

There wasn't a big scene and the gentlemen agreed to a number and that was that. Everyone learned a lesson and one guy learned a very expensive lesson.


___________________

After 47 Years Joe Suddenly Has All The Answers.
November 3rd, National Neuter A Liberal Day.
 
Posts: 22015 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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The answer to the bullet penetration question is much like the answer to the question 'do elderly varmint shooters wear briefs or jockey shorts"

Depends
 
Posts: 164 | Registered: 02 December 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of sambarman338
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My thoughts on these matters are not extensive but go a long way back: ranging from J.A. Hunter's lining up two cape buffalo when culling and killing both with one FMP bullet to my finding that Norma 180-grain Plastic-points from a .30-06 would pull up wrecked within 4-5 inches in a clay dam bank at 100 yards, having penetrated nothing more than a target.
 
Posts: 4134 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Ive found a number of them just laying on the ground, a few under the animal, a few in trees, and listened to a number of them going to Dar Es Salam from the Selou!! shocker

I suspect their are too many varables to even make a serious statement to your question...


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36576 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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We were hunting grizzly in south eastern Alaska; so far south and east that we could see peaks in Canada. Anyway; my bear was busy eating another bear and we closed the distance down to 68 yards. The shot I had was at the exposed part of his back so he got a spine shot that dropped him on his chin motionless.That worked perfectly; though not permanently as he started to get fairly lively, biting his side, the gravel beach and probably wouldn't have been loathe to chomp a couple of bear hunters given the chance. We had closed the gap by half so plunking first one then another bullet through his shoulders and ribs wasn't much of a trick. Trouble was; he seemed to be gaining strength with each shot. I had a couple different loads in my pouch so single-loaded a 285 grain SAF into the Kimber and put a stop to that.

If you're still reading this, somewhere in the skinning process someone saw a shiney bullet laying on the gravel maybe 15 feet away. It was a 225 gr .338 TSX. Still trying to make sense out of that one.

I've got many twofers, most of them on purpose and many with the 257 Weatherby with 100 Grain Scirrocos. They always seemed to exit the second animal, and I have never recovered one yet.
 
Posts: 1917 | Location: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: 30 November 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of Todd Williams
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My last ele bull hunt in 2013, I shot my bull with a side brain shot at 6 yards using Northfork 570gr solids in my 500NE.

Bull dropped on the spot and I put in an insurance shot through the top of the skull angling down and back.

We found one of the bullets laying on the ground about 2 feet away from the downed bull. I don't know if it was the first or second shot but it was just laying on top of the ground without penetrating the ground at all.
 
Posts: 7737 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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The argument that a bullet that's found expanded on the off side skin resting against the skin with no exit, and has expanded all its energy inside the animal is pure BS that's been handed down over the years by those that have no clue.

The only difference in a bullet expanded inside an no exit kills better theory is BS, a bullet that penetrates and leaves an exit expands all its energy also in an animal but just punches out the skin and leaves an exit hole and is often found on the ground, the difference being a 1/4 inch of skin that leaves a better blood trail, all things equal of course..Internal damage is very similar in fact if one does his own autopsy of the damage..Some animals run further with either scenario as a matter of fact and more importantly for a cornucopia of different reasons..

Ultra high velocity varmint type bullets that literally explode inside an animal is a whole nuther thread, and kill like lightening until you lose an animal, which will happen sooner or later I guarantee but some seem to buy the koolaide.

The fact is, all things equal, those remaining in the animal or those exiting work equally well as a matter of fact, and the only difference I can tell is an exit hole leaves a much better blood trail while the no exit kill usually gets a nose bleed and that's not a good thing IMO.... stir old


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36576 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
The argument that a bullet that's found expanded on the off side skin resting against the skin with no exit, and has expanded all its energy inside the animal is pure BS that's been handed down over the years by those that have no clue.


Where did the energy go then, none of it was used in passing thru the critter.
 
Posts: 16119 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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I will tell the story of one of my Elk hunts that illustrates what happens when a bullet penetrates completely through the animal and you can decide how the energy is destributed. ——- I am hunting on Thornburg mountain between Meeker and Craig Colorado. The temperature never got above 2 below all day and there is a foot of snow on the ground. At four o’clock in the afternoon I see a group of twenty Elk 250 yard up the mountain and one is a very nice 5x5 Bull. I am shooting a .340 loaded with 250 grain Barnes XLC bullets, the blue coated bullet I reloaded. The speed is 2900 fps on that load. My rifle has a muzzle brake and when I place the crosshairs of the 4X16 Burris Signature scope on his right shoulder and pull the trigger snow flys for a few seconds. When I get another sight picture the Bull has turned and has his left shoulder is broadside to me I fire again and he calopsed to the ground. All I can see is an antler sticking up so I know I have a dead Bull. When I get up to the Bull I have hit him through the right shoulder and the bullet exited the left shoulder within two inches of another entrance hole on that shoulder. Behind the Bull on the snow is blood and gore for ten yards beyond him. You can see two streaks of blood on the snow from both exit holes. When I gutted the Bull the meat inside was mush from the two bullets passing through, and each exit hole was the size of a silver dollar. Also at each exit hole was two blue petals that each of the Barnes XLC bullet shed in the hide around the holes as they went out. That mush inside told me the bullet shed tremendous energy while passing through and still had enough energy to exit and blow gore ten yards beyond. I can understand tremendous shock passing inside that Bull to cause the amount of damage I saw that day. You can form your own opinions. My son and a buddy also were witnesses as to that scene the next day when we packed out the meat. Good Shooting


phurley
 
Posts: 2167 | Location: KY | Registered: 22 September 2004Reply With Quote
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