The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 7mm08 for cow elk, how far?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
So today my brother, his wife and my son drew a cow tag. My sister in law went and bought a 7mm08 for her rifle. My question is, what would the longest shot you would take with the 708 at a cow elk? And what grain of bullet would be best? I do reload. | ||
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| One of Us |
How good a shot is she? How experienced a hunter is she? In the hands of a capable shooter the 7-08 is certainly capable of 300 yard kills. If it were me I'd try 160 grain bullets to start with. | |||
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I would use a 120 gr TSX and I wouldn’t have second thoughts about shooting a cow elk as far out as I felt comfortable making a good shot. I wouldn’t have a problem with a 400 yard shot, but you can usually get a lot closer on a cow elk. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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The hunter/shooter if far more important then the rifle and caliber when it comes to what range. The rifle and caliber is used at. When the time comes to shoot the hunting is over and the shooting begins. | |||
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I agree...… bullet placement is the key. Remember, forgivness is easier to get than permission. | |||
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how far can they shoot accurately? I would, and have, used the 708 for all shots at game I am comfortable with - zero complaints - #dumptrump opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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How long is a rope? How high is the sky? How far will a 7mm/08 shoot? Not the right questions. Even "how far will a 7mm/08 kill an elk" is not the right question. Yes, it's true that a 7/08 is on the lighter side for elk rifles, but range is not really its limiting factor. The question is how far can the shooter, under undefined conditions, place a shot in the vitals of an elk. If the circumstance is an offhand shot at a running elk then the answer is "not very far". If the circumstance is a semi-rested shot at a standing elk in thick timber then the answer is "only as far as you can assure that brush is not in the way". If the circumstance is at an immobile elk in an open meadow with a solid rest, then it depends on whether the shooter has the ability to estimate range with reasonable accuracy and knows how to compensate for drop and wind -- a skill that most hunters don't possess. We can assume that the shooter in this circumstance, having purchased a brand new rifle specifically for this hunt, isn't intimately familiar with ballistics or wind doping. This means that her shots should be limited to a range within which the bullet's path varies no more than about 3 or 4 inches from the line of sight, thus allowing her to make a center hold with the crosshairs. Choose a load with an appropriate bullet at an appropriate velocity, look up the trajectory for that bullet and velocity, sight the rifle so that at midrange between muzzle and zero range it rises no more than previously mentioned above the line of sight, then whatever the drop table tells you is the range at which it drops that much below the line of sight is the distance beyond which the average shooter should not attempt a shot. | |||
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If you have to ask that question, the answer is 100 yards. If you knew the shooter's and the cartridge's capabilities, you would already know. | |||
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The voice of reason. Thank you. | |||
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She isn't experienced at all. This is her first time hunting. But her husband my brother is gonna have her practice, I hope. At least that's what he said. Here in Oregon if a person buys a gun the waiting period from osp is at least a week. People are still buying guns. | |||
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I hope she'll practice too and even then limit shots to calm animals well within the ranges at which she practiced and becomes proficient. Getting a solid rest and a clean, smooth trigger press (squeeze) can turn a rookie into a pro so have her practice finding a natural rest (tree, rock, pack, prone etc) I have 4 daughters and a wife who are all accomplished hunters but it wasn't always that way.... so I'm coming from decades of experience with rookie women. Zeke | |||
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Oh, and the 7mm-08 is just fine well past her proficient range so no worries there. Like others said "it's all about shot placement" | |||
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I would encourage her to also shoot a pellet gun every day at animal targets. One of last years elk hunting group was a first timer. She used a 7-08 with 140 gr. Hornady IB and got a great 6x6 at just under 100 yards. We had her shooting the 7-08 to 300 from field positions effectively. She also shot a few pellet rounds daily all summer. | |||
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I would get her as close as I could and stick a 175 gr. Nosler through her shoulder, It won't waste a lot of meat but kills very well indeed.Thats a load Ive used in my 7x57 for cows over the years, and its good on big bulls out to 350 yards, maybe 400 for an experienced elk hunter, but its been my experience that cows are easy to slip up on if you have just a bit of cover..I would try and get a child or a inexperienced woman to at least 50 yards with a rest, That should be easy enough in good elk country..If in fact the ladies are good shots then that has to be up to them and you..A good shoulder shot will kill at about any range up to say 600 to 800 yards, but remember a off perfect shot on elk is a hell of a trip hours to days of up and down, mostly down and camps back up and ya'll gotta pack it out..Its just not worth it to take chances..and be ready to back up anyones shot is my advise.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I bet a 140gr partition/accubond out of the 7mm-08 in the right spot and the elk won't know the difference between it and a magnum. Practice out to 300 and hopefully the opportunity comes between 50-200y. Bring game bags and sharp knives  "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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I've guided a few, maybe 6-7, women hunters for moose, that all used 7-08. All used 150 grn factory loads, mostly Rem corlok. They all killed their moose with one shot, 140 yds was the longest shot. None ran more then 50-60 yds after the shot. | |||
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140 grain premium and as far as she can hit the 12 inch plate from a field position. I have successfully used the 160 Speer cup and core at ranges longer than she would want to shoot in the 2600 fps range quite successfully. The 140 at 2800 will work just that much better. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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I've killed 2 elk with my 257 Roberts. Not because its a great elk rifle but because it was what I had in hand when the elk walked out. One was at 305 yards the other was 250 yds. I waited for open heart/lung shots and the rest is history. Perry | |||
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not the 7-08 since I use the X57 round loaded all the way up to the bigger badder 7-08's capability. but the 139gr Hornady at around 2800 fps. will penetrate both shoulders of a Cow Elk out to 250 yds. no problem. at least mine will [shrug] maybe hers won't I dunno. | |||
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A 160 or 175 gr.Nosler partition in my max loaded 7x57 at 2600 plus FPS will shoot through an elk lengthwise, even if bone is hit, going in. as will a 30-06 and a 180 gr. Noser..and Id bet dollars to donuts the Barnes TTSXs would work. I have a loacation out of Sun valle Idaho where the black stuff is so damn thick its hard to crawl thru, much less walk, but go slow and know how to hunt that kind of stuff and figure on shots at under 25 yards, the place holds lots of elk..99% of all shot are Texas Heart shots.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Since she is new to hunting I would get her really used to the rifle. Does it fit her well? That is the single biggest issue. If the rifle fits her well, she will learn to shoot it well. If it is a poor fit, she is going to have some really bad days, loss of confidence etc. I would get her to practice field positions and shooting off sticks or bipod. I would limit bench practice to just sighting in. I would let her shoot lots of light loads or 120 gr loads. the final hunting load will be what the rifle like most among good hunting bullets. If the rifle shoots well with TTSX 120 gr, you are already set up. That will perform like a 270 Win to 300 meters. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I’d like to know, of those who have responded to the OP, how many have actually used the 7-08 on elk? | |||
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I have not used a 7mm 08 on Elk, but I have used the 7x57 and 7x65r on plenty of Red Stag and Red Hinds. Our Red stags are getting on for the size of an Elk. Firstly, depending on the bullet construction most 7mm bullets launched at c2,700 fps will have enough impact energy, penetration etc to pretty fatal to most large animals at a range far in excess of what any of us should be shooting at. Not many animals work well for very long with an inch diameter hole right the way through heart, lungs and aorta. Much more important is whether or not you can put that bullet in that killing zone. With a range finder its pretty easy to make a drop chart so you know the drops and thus how many clicks or how much to hold over - that’s easy enough. But two other factors come into play: 1) Wind - in the mountains it doesn't just blow left to right, but it goes all over the place - swirling etc. This not issue at 100yards, but a big issue at 250. A bullet can easily be pushed several inches off target. Hopefully enough to cleanly miss. But with an elk is a big enough that it wont be a clean miss, but a bullet in the guts etc. I shot at Red stag once with my 7x65r at about 250. Aimed just behind the shoulder And hit tree in front of it. I was in shelter but between me and it was an open valley with a 30 mph wind blowing the bullet. I was in shelter and so was the animal. 2) Holding rifle steady. A novice shot, indeed even an experienced shot With a bit of adrenalin in field conditions can hold a three inch group at 100 - more than enough for a kill shot. Take that out to 250 / 300 that opens up to 9” or a foot and thats enough to put bullet in the guts. So with any shot, especially with a novice get in close so that distance is not an issue. Doesn’t matter on calibre, its much the wind and the shooter that is the hinderence. Besides getting in close is much more fun!! | |||
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I'm another one who hasn't used a 7mm08 but have used a 7x57 on elk. My first rifle as a kid was one. I used factory 175 grain Remington Corelokts. They worked just fine. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Well, it has little to do with the round itself. I have a hunting friend that has shot a 7mm08 for over 10 years. It's his only rifle, hunts everything with it, and the same load, 140 Accubond at 2900.(Chronographed out of his rifle.) The combination is sub MOA. Practices regularly with the rifle and load. He has a Burris Eliminator Scope on it, yeah, some people find it gimmicky and heavy, he loves it and it obviously works for him. If I'm with him I will double check the yardage with my Rangefinder binos. He shoots prone of a bi-pod whenever possible and always at ranges over 300 yards. We have hunted cow elk during damage seasons for years and I have seen him take cow elk at or near or slightly over 500 yards numerous times. All one and done. All shot prone off bi-pod, all little or no wind issues. No hurried shots, select an animal wait for the perfect angle etc. I would add that in these circumstances the elk were in open, flat ground and closer shots were not an option. The key here is accurate rifle and load. High quality bullet. Excellent scope and accurate range estimation. Lack of significant wind. Extensive familiarity with rifle, scope, load and conditions which means: PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE so as to know almost, instinctively YOUR limitations under various conditions. | |||
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312 yards  Mike  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike D: Sounds like you have some eye wittiness experience with that answer. | |||
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Not really - my lovely girlfriend killed hers at 225 with a 7mm-08. But I am all about the physics and I would suspect everyone on this site would say that if you are a good enough shot that a 7mm mag will take an elk with a 140 grain monometal at 450 yards. The impact velocity for that round at 450 yards is 2192 fps. Well you can launch a 140 Barnes TSX at 2800fps out of a 7mm-08 and the bullet is doing 2102 fps at 312 yards. Mike What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| One of Us |
Way too much dissection of entirely the wrong question; as I surmised, and now it is confirmed, that the lady is not a hunter or shooter; hence, any one who has killed an elk at umpteen yards, and says that is a valid range; fine, but complete moot. She should be ability tested, and limited to that distance. She might turn out to be a stable, reliable shot. Or might not. Which is why I said 100 yards. Maybe less. I once coached our Brigade's woman's pistol team. If they have the desire, women make better shooters than men; they will listen and practice; men will think they already know it all. We won. | |||
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dpcd You forgot to add that your scenario includes men and boys, most races as a matter of fact..not just females..Fairly common knowledge I suspect. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I could turn your question around and ask how many responders have shot red deer, I suspect not too many in the States. As Heym SR20 points out, big red deer can be similar in size to elk but this is not the full story as different animals have different tenacity to life. Here in NZ we have had elk, Wapiti as we call them, since the early 1900's and likewise red deer. Those who have shot both species seem to concur that Wapiti are rather 'soft' compared to red deer. I have shot plenty of red deer with a range of cartridges, in the last decade a 7mm-08, and find it perfectly suited to red deer. Two of my sons use the 7mm-08 with the Hornady SST bullet and have taken plenty of red deer and also Tahr which are a strongly constructed animal with a thick hairy coat in winter and can prove hard to anchor on occasions. A red deer hind can be one of the hardest animals to put down if the shot is not perfect and they get their adrenaline up or are pregnant or with young to hoof. As we know in life, size is not everything  | |||
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The answer I would give is to reverse your, and her, thinking about this. Don't think in terms of how far is the farthest she can possibly shoot, as though there's some kind of absolute maximum. She needs to commit herself to getting as close as possible under the circumstances. And she needs to practice out to 200 yards (or even 300 yards, if possible), but really mostly at 100. She needs lots of trigger time. Then, in the event, she needs to get so close that she is certain, based on her extensive practice, that she can't miss. If she can't get that close, she should not shoot. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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My son has shot a pile of Oryx, wildebeest and zebra with his 7m-08, mainly with 140 grain Barnes TSX,... and not a single problem. If you can dump a zebra stallion in its tracks, a cow elk will not be a problem with good shot placement. Go Duke!! | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 7mm08 for cow elk, how far?
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