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CCI "snake loads"
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Picture of Bill/Oregon
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Had to dispatch a very crabby three-foot diamondback yesterday, and the CCI .44 shot load from about five feet fouled up Mr. Buzzer but came nowhere close to putting him down. I had a similar experience with a slightly smaller DB a couple of months ago using CCI's .38 shotshell -- highly unsatisfactory.
The very first snake I killed with a CCI product was a western rattlesnake back in Oregon 25-30 years ago. One round of the little .22 shotshell with its swarm of No. 12 to his head from about five feet and that snake didn't move. I think I may go back to a .22 for this work.


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Posts: 13707 | Location: Alamogordo, NM | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I find none of those shells to be very effective. After an encounter with an exceedingly large eastern diamondback with rat shot in a 22 magnum, I bought myself a 410 pistol. No comparison.
 
Posts: 10592 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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A lot of the pattern depends on the rifling. Some hand guns have a deeper groove and sling he capsule too much go get much distance. I have never tried a Judge with bird shot. A TC with a 45/410 barrel will do a number on em!
 
Posts: 480 | Location: South Central Texas | Registered: 29 August 2014Reply With Quote
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A loooong time ago I bought a box of the bird shot capsules. I reloaded them hotter than factory. I also used copper plated #6 shot. Worked very good on an almost black bell worm that was hiding in the rocks while I was ground squirrel hunting on the inter coast of Ca. I was using a 2" .38 special.
 
Posts: 217 | Location: California | Registered: 14 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Larry, understood. As a part-time assistant at our county shooting range, I am expected to carry, and the little Charter Bulldog with one snake load and four 255-grain Keiths is just so darned comfortable. I will check to see if Speer still sells the shot capsules. Maybe going to No. 10 shot would work better.


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Posts: 13707 | Location: Alamogordo, NM | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Bill, let me know if you can't find the Speer shot capsules. I MIGHT have a box left in the loading room. If you do find them let me know. I would like a source to buy more myself. I haven't bought any in over 30 years.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 13518 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
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I've gone thru that game a few times.
Found a shovel works a hell of a lot
better.

Main thing is how long they are so you
don't get in reach. Some of those Texas
snakes would take a turkey load @ 50 feet from the 12ga to be safe.

Every snake I've been around that was hit
with shot loads in handguns have been shot
up in the body and not killed. That does
limit their reach though.

Keep in mind they can strike 3/4's their
length so don't get too close.

Being shot up spoils eating them.

George


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Join the NRA today!"

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Posts: 4913 | Location: Pueblo, CO | Registered: 31 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Bill, I think you found the maximum effective range for snake loads - 5 feet. I tried them a couple times but never found them to do very well. Frowner


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Posts: 2300 | Location: Washington (wetside) | Registered: 08 February 2005Reply With Quote
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I've used plenty of the reloaded CCI shotshell capsules as well as the factory loaded version (mostly in the .44). I have about 40 years of reloading experience, so I'm not new to it, but I haven't had as good of results with the reloaded versions as the factory loaded version. No matter how tightly I pack the shot or how carefully I crimp them, it seems like after I carry them a while the shot is rattling and sometimes the capsules move in the cases. The factory loads seem to last better if carried a lot (look at the unusual crimp they put on those aluminum cases - it covers a lot of area, like a modified "factory crimp"). A real tight roll crimp will just break the capsule.

Neither version typically kills a rattler real dead on the first round in my experience. The closer the better, within reason. And don't be shy about sending another one or two after the first one - the patterns are terrible so you need a bit of luck to get a pellet in the brain. My theory has always been that the shot shells just slow them down enough to hit them with a real round.

Buy the way, if you're a fan of the 10mm, the round made for the 40 S&W will fire safely in 10mm's. It probably won't fully cycle, but it will shoot okay in a pinch (it headspaces on the extractor).


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Posts: 2362 | Location: Central Coast of CA | Registered: 10 January 2002Reply With Quote
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BB in 45 or 44 ..
aint much vel, so make it up in mass


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

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Posts: 35127 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of Bill/Oregon
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George, yes, a shovel will work. I was up there on the LEO range in the range truck, which is normally without a shovel. After finishing this guy, I drove back to the shop to get a shovel to bury it, and there was one in the truck bed.
Kyler, yes, the first round typically turns them into a furious, damaged, writhing mass that would strike at anything, making them a bit easier to target with round two or three. I confess I fired the other four rounds of 255 Keiths at this thing before center punching the head. It is a combination of a moving target and my failure to practice pinpoint accuracy and sight picture on a 50-cent size target at less than six feet.
Randy, thanks. As Craigster points out, there are some capsules out there -- just have to scratch a bit.


I love dogs so much more than people.
 
Posts: 13707 | Location: Alamogordo, NM | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
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That's good to know Bill; I should buy some more just to stock up. As to those buzztails, even when they're dead they don't know it. I killed one a few years ago outside my shop, decapitated it + skinned it out + gutted it. I noticed that in the viscera the heart was still beating. We got interested to see how long it would beat outside the body. My buddy who worked for me at the time + who was never without a can of Lone Star Beer in his hand kept watching on the beating heart. When it started to slow down he would drop a little cold beer on it + it would start right back up again. This went on for over 4 hours. Killing an animal with that kind of survival genetics needs to be brutal.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 13518 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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I have killed 3 prairie rattlesnakes with CCI 44 shotshells out of a 4 inch 629. I load 3 shotshells and then 3 JSP or hard cast loads. I always shoot all 3 shot shells at/in the snake, it did a good job on two of them but the 3rd one I shot twice with the JSP loads and that did it.

I have shot them with a 12 gauge while out bird hunting and it does much - much better. S

Since as has been said they keep moving even when dead I cut the head off and put it in an ice tea bottle for deposit in the trash. When shot at close range with a 12 gauge the head can be hard to find.
 
Posts: 1392 | Location: Northwest Wyoming | Registered: 13 March 2001Reply With Quote
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My gunsmith from Montana, Leroy Barry, killed two of them yesterday. Both were over 4 feet. He and his wife Connie were riding their horses near Sula Peak. I believe that he shot them with his pistol, but not snake loads as they were not expecting to see rattlers. My granddad had a big ranch in Utah and his method of killing rattlers was an irrigation shovel. He killed hundreds over the years. Big Grin
 
Posts: 15840 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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That's true that the head can be hard to find if you take it off with as 12G. full choke. I shot one in Castell, Texas that was sunning on a red dirt road that was graded by a D-9 Cat. Its head + tail was in the grass on both sides of the road. When he popped his head up I took it off. even without the head he coiled up + started to sing. He was longer than a D-9 blade. That was one big snake.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 13518 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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I used to always have a 22Mag revolver with rat shot in it . Shortly after I bought my place, I encountered the biggest rattler I have seen in at least 30 years. I shot him several times. He didn’t like it but it wasn’t doing much, if any, damage to him. This is when I went to the 410 pistol.
 
Posts: 10592 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Talk about moving after dead.

While hog hunting

I shot one about 5.5 feet with a 310gr hard cast at 12 feet hit him on the tip of the nose. The bullet remover the middle of it head leaving skin on both sides.

One of my hunting partners wanted the skin so i took him to the dead snake about 3 hours latter.

He grab it to skin it the snake started to move he jumped back fairly high.

Kind of funny to watch.
 
Posts: 16421 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of Bill/Oregon
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They are a different critter all right -- not much brain and able to squirm for hours with it missing.
As to the tough target a rattlesnake represents, a riff off the line from the "Scarlet Pimpernel."

You shoot him here
You shoot him there
You seem to shoot him everywhere.

hilbily


I love dogs so much more than people.
 
Posts: 13707 | Location: Alamogordo, NM | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I loaded up some 38 and 45cal shot shells with #8 shot as well as 7.5 shot. I gave a rattle snake a face full and then had to follow it up with a wadcutter. Neither round killed it right away and I wasn't going into the sagebrush to try and find where he slithered off too.
I hope the 45 Colt loaded with more shot will do the trick if I have another encounter with Mr. No shoulders.
 
Posts: 661 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: 23 June 2009Reply With Quote
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As wild assed teens we'd put a wad in
usually 12ga hulls. Fill it with shot,
or sometimes glass marbles then pour in
melted wax. Within 30 feet those marbles
would blow 2" holes thru a tie post.

I always wanted to charge a .38, put a wad
in then shot and wax to see how that worked
on snakes. Never did and now don't get out
where they are. I've never seen many when out
in the pastures though. Not even where there's
a lot of snakes. Found more in the junk or
lumber piles.

Bill that's an idea for you to try a few self
made shotshells for that pistol. Shucks with
wax even fine sand would work and shouldn't
hurt the bore either. I'd try it on a junker
gun first though.

Don't take much powder for such a load. I'd use
some hot powder though.

Main thing is don't get snake bit!
My first wife had been twice 9 months apart.
First time with a 6" wrapped around a squash
she picked. Fangs 1/4" apart on the ring finger.
Second one she stepped over a row of flowers
into a 5' and had on those rubber flipflops. One
fang went into the rubber, other hit her big
toe. She still had the bandaid on when I met
her. Nightmare's for years! I'd wake up to
her beating the hell out of me lot's of nights.

Snake stories never end it seems. It'll sure
tighten you up to look down and see you're
standing on one! Did that once myself!

George


"Gun Control is NOT about Guns'
"It's about Control!!"
Join the NRA today!"

LM: NRA, DAV, RMEF

George L. Dwight
 
Posts: 4913 | Location: Pueblo, CO | Registered: 31 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of NormanConquest
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My eldest son killed one, took off the head then coiled it in a striking position + stuck in my upright freezer. You open the freezer + it's at eye level. He thought it quite a joke to send someone to the freezer for something. I will admit that it helps keep you aware.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 13518 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Snake loads in general are a joke. If you read a post claiming they are good for killing snakes beyond about 8 feet away you know for certain the OP is full of shit. Carry a S&W Governor in .410 and you are good to go. I detest water snakes with a passion and have killed them 10 yards away with my Gov.


My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
 
Posts: 6278 | Location: Cumberland Plateau, Tennessee | Registered: 22 February 2005Reply With Quote
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I am intrigued by the conflicting reports and testimony in this thread. I ran bird dogs in south Texas for many years. We ran them in September for conditioning at various dove camps. At the time, which was thirty years ago both .45 ACP and .44 Mag contained 1/2 oz of shot. That is the same as a 2 1/2" .410. From five or six feet they will almost always blow the head off a rattler. I also carried .22 Magnums, which were not nearly as demonstrative, but would still put six or seven pellets in a snakes head from the same distance. I liked the much lighter weight of the .22 Mag, but also prefer to have the snake's head go away. Now if you want to kill snakes from a high rack or the back of a horse that is a whole different matter, but from snake length distance I found the .44 and .45 shot loads to be totally effective. One other thing, I think .22 mags were loaded with No. 12 shot whereas .44 and 45's were loaded with No. 9's. Big difference .
 
Posts: 438 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: 03 February 2013Reply With Quote
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I loaded my 44 spls. w/ #12 shot years ago. I'm not sure if #12 is still available.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 13518 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by NormanConquest:
I loaded my 44 spls. w/ #12 shot years ago. I'm not sure if #12 is still available.


Ballistic Products has 12 shot for sale.
 
Posts: 16421 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
I find none of those shells to be very effective. After an encounter with an exceedingly large eastern diamondback with rat shot in a 22 magnum, I bought myself a 410 pistol. No comparison.

Agree with you. I have tried shotshells in 44, 38 and 22 and they did not kill the snake or rat. Back to a 22 revolver, it works fine.
 
Posts: 5289 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 02 April 2003Reply With Quote
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I have to believe that a Speer .44 shot capsule full of No. 12 at six feet would ravage a snake's head and upper CNS.


I love dogs so much more than people.
 
Posts: 13707 | Location: Alamogordo, NM | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Thanks, p dog, sources are always good to know.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 13518 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Yesterday I received two boxes of 45 shot capsules to reload for the 45 LC. Will use them in the Ruger Vaquero, TC barrels and my Bond Arms. Would try them in a Marlin 94 if I had one. Thanks for the heads up and Be Well, Packy.
 
Posts: 1926 | Registered: 28 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Barrel length may make a difference with shot.

My M19 with 6 inch barrel seem to kill snakes better than my 4 inch barreled .44 mag.

Though a 240 grain .44 to the head always does the job regardless of barrel length. Smiler


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Posts: 1865 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 25 May 2009Reply With Quote
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You got a point there, judge. Cool


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Posts: 13518 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Keep the skins of rattlesnakes. Very easy to skin, peel back a few inches at the neck and with skin one hand and neck the other, pull the skin off. Now use scissors and cut down the belly and you have a flat skin. Remove as much flesh as possible, then soak the skin 3 days in a thoroughly mixed solution of cup and a half 20 Mule Team Borax to a gallon of water. This will "perfume" the meat and prevent stinking. You can apply a coat of glycerine.
 
Posts: 3148 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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CE Harris put together a very effective snake load for the 1911 that fit in the magazine and cycled the action ... Using a 308 or 243 case sizing and then necking down to .41 cal which is what the cartridge then head spaced on.. Ihave shot a few and they are good out to 15'

http://www.avr-developers.com/45shotshell/

http://www.avr-developers.com/..._shot_cartridges.pdf
 
Posts: 1430 | Location: Vermont | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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Interesting! What a fun project. Now if we could only order our RCBS dies directly like we used to. Confused


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Posts: 13518 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Best snake loads the Ole man and I used where some of Elmer's preferred loads, 44spl cases, gas checks, onw up over powder, shot then the other down small roll crimp, as I remember
shot was a mix of 12's and 8's, only cause then got dumped in a coffee can as left overs for birds


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Posts: 1528 | Location: Tidewater,Virginia | Registered: 12 August 2002Reply With Quote
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I have found that the #12 shot handloaded hot in a 44 works a lot better than the commercial shells. Venturino did an article a few years back with loads. As I recall it comes to about 450 pellets. Several hundred (small) holes seems to do the trick. The dozen rattlers I have shot with that load were all dead right there.
 
Posts: 488 | Location: Escaped to Montana  | Registered: 01 March 2004Reply With Quote
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Zephyr, Dave, Brad, thanks for the posts. I am convinced No. 12 is the way to go for close encounters with buzzers.


I love dogs so much more than people.
 
Posts: 13707 | Location: Alamogordo, NM | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
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THe rifling being the problem. Several ways to go to improve.....
Get a short barrel
Lap out most of the rifling....got to stay legal.
Make a Paradox barrel.

My gunsmith for 1911s carries an Officers Model. Fist sized group at 10 feet. Short barrel.
He HAS shot a number of snakes and killed them. No BS at all.
Don’t remember if it was the CCI brand .......but it was store bought.
I’d tell the rest of the story but you wouldn’t believe it anyway. Lol
I was doubtful at first. But he is the real deal.
I’m looking for a beater 45 Colt to keep on the tractor with a straight bored cylinder and use 460 brass.
Or screw on a 475 barrel and ream it and use 45-70 brass
 
Posts: 299 | Location: South Central PA | Registered: 11 November 2010Reply With Quote
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Ok here's another vote for Mike Venturino's #12 shot.
Honestly you will be amazed at how well the tiny shot works. Instant death by hundreds of tiny holes.

Loaded up some according to his directions a few years ago ran into a rather big eastern Montana rattler. At 6 feet a well placed swarm took the things head off! I've shot a few with the #12 shot loads and it kills them DEAD RIGHT NOW.

Shoot a beer can with a CCI factory load and compare it to Venturino's load and you will be impressed, so will any snake...
 
Posts: 763 | Location: Montana | Registered: 28 November 2004Reply With Quote
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