I cannot decide between the 7x57 Mauser or the 7x64 Brenneke and I need some expert advice.
At the start please don’t advise on any other caliber as I only have a choice between the 2. The rifle will mainly be used for hunting springbuck in the Kalahari and kudu in the Eastern Cape. Most shots will be at +250m. My heart has always been set on the 7x57 but looking at the various trajectory tables the 7x64 is substantially flatter with the same bullet. The PMP reloading tables put the old .303 with a flatter trajectory than the 7x57, is this correct or can it be made to shoot close to the 7x64.

http://www.pmp.co.za/index.php?page=sporting2

I already have a .416 Rigby and a .303 and like the “classics” hence the fact I actually want the 7x57 but is it a practical choice? Please also remember it is near impossible to get licenses in South Africa for rifles so please don’t advise me to buy both….

I have never owned a 7x64, only shot friends gun. I do own a 7x57. It is a 1952 FN commercial 98. It is the best rifle I have ever owned. BTW, I own and operate a gun shop in Texas, so I have had a few to pick from. I seem to be able to load just about anything and get very good results. I have a friend who has a 7x64 who says the same thing. I know this probably isn't helping you but either way you will come out good.

flat tragectory is nice, but if you spend time with your rifle, you will know what kind of drop to expect and you'll be able to whack springbok as far as you like. i vote 7x57.

7x64 - every time ..
hornady ammo available for 20 bucks a box, loaded, and loaded to spec .. not powder puff.

7 X 64 is the most popular caliber in France, in part because the 7 X 57 is classified as "military". If you ever want to hunt in France, or even transit through France with no problems, then 7 X 64 it is. I realize French regulations are probably the last item on your list of criteria for your decision, but you just never know what the future will hold so I add it to your decision matrix.

While I am not 100% positive, I believe the French caliber classifications also hold true for most of the ex-French colonies like Burkina Faso, Benin, Cameroon and the Central African Republic. You may want to hunt there someday.

My wife and I share a Blaser R-93 barrel in a 7x64, it is her fav. big game round. It shoots flat, hits hard, and is pretty easy on the shoulder. Store bought ammo is reasonable, $20+ for hornady, or $40+ for Norma and can be found at most online ammo outlets such as grafs, or midway.

I bought the barrel on a "good deal" and stuck with it because it works!

Ed

I use rifles in both calibers and would definitley recommend the 7x64 for your purpose.
rgds,
andy

Although I own rifles of both calibers, and have been a confirmed fan of the 7X57 for years, for your purposes, I think the 7X64 makes more sense. I use mine in hunting situations where I know the shot will be 250 yards +, and my experience in Africa is that you can count on that range being the case.

Trying to stalk with animals of half a dozen other species between you and your quarry ready to give the alarm can severely limit how close you can get. My solution to that problem was the .300 H&H, but the 7X64 would have been a good second choice.

For your application and situation, 7x64

Hi ghundwan,

I have had and used both. If you don´t handload your ammo, I think the 7x64 is slightly better because is loaded by de factories at its full potential! And, also, more practical because of a wider options in factory ammunition. And no restrictions in France or wherever.
Anyway, beeing a handloader, and because a friend made me an offer I couldn´t refuse, I sold my Mannlicher-Schoenauer in 7x64 and kept my two Mausers in 7x57s !!! Handloading both, the differences are not more than 100 fps in all weights. In my experience.

Good luck!

PH

Which one is the easiest to get ammo/reloading components for?

Thank-you all for the valued input. I am a handloader so can tweak where necessary.
So far the majority are leaning toward the 7x64. Also thanks for the comment on recoil as my wife often comes on hunts with me and is keen to take a Springbuck - she is recoil shy as when she was a little girl her Dad forced her to shoot with a .303 and since then she is very wary. Although the recoil might be similar I think it is a psychological thing with the .303

7x64
(It's the European .280 Remington, so to speak.)

This was the dilemma I faced two years ago when deciding on my second (light) African rifle built specifically for a Kudu hunt planned for 2014.

I ended up with the 7x57 and it has been a delightful, light recoiling rifle, superbly accurate with its Lothar Walther barrel. It however has a long european throat which favours the heavier 175 grain loads and ammo rather than the premium 140 weight Woodleighs I wanted to use.

Make sure you know what throat length each rifle has. If the 7x64 has a short throat you will have to load those beautiful high SD and BC 7mm projectiles deeper and use less powder. If the 7x57 has a long throat then the opposite applys.

A work colleague has a .280 with a 22 inch barrel and it is rather noisey when fired. As the .280 copies the ballistics of the 7x64 make sure it has a 24 or 26" barrel.

Edit: For Springbok I bought a .264WM so maybe the 7x64 is the way to go for you.

I have never owned a 7X57 but I use a 7mm08 a lot & they are very similar. I also owned a 7X64 briefly and it was fine rifle. I also own a 280 Ackley Imp which is bit flatter still. If I was in your situation I would choose the 7X64 without a doubt. I would load 120 gr Nosler Ballistic tips for the lady and Barnes tipped TSX for larger game or go right up to the 160gr Accubonds for Kudu or Eland and not have to worry about trajectory or penetration.

.

7x64
If I did not own my .308 I would have gone with 7x64
Versatile and not as expensive to load as a Magnum.
Its the 300 H&H of the 7mm clan. Comfortable, accurate and normally built in a light enough rifle to comfortably carry all day.
I suggest you look long and hard at the CZ.
Put a Lynx 3-9 x 42 with Nato RF reticle on.
Good luck
HQ

7x64 for your purposes. Although you will find no flies on the 7x57 either, except for the technical, French legal ones that Wink mentions.

quote:

Originally posted by BNagel:
7x64
(It's the European .280 Remington, so to speak.)

Actually the 7X64 pre-dates the 280Remington by about fifty years although the remington loading is essentially the same cartridge (though NOT interchangeable!!!)
I love my 7X64. Haven't used it on Kudu but have had excellent results on Blue Wildebeest. It will easily dispatch any smaller animals.

7x64

7x57, one fine hunting round. I have shot both and find little difference except on paper.

7x64. it has one of the best reps in Afrca when plains game and long distance killing abilty is needed.

Thank-you for all the advice. I have just put my money down on the CZ 550 in 7x64.

Now starts the wait for the license - going to try for a temporary license which should allow me to use it this season still.

Thanks

Great choice! Actually either cartridge is a great choice! Had them both, love them both.

Craig boddington in safari rifles devotes a whole chapter to the 7mm and will do the same job. At 140 gn bullet size not a lot to choose between any of them, but 7x64 has the powder capacity to shoot the big long 170gn bullets at enough velocity to give a flat trajectory. RWS load the 162g ID Classic bullet at 800 m/s in 7x57 with a drop of 20cm at 300m, the same bullet in 7x64 is launched at 880 m/s, and will also launch the bigger 177gn bullet at 850 m/s.

I use a lightweight rimmed 7x65r, and in full house loads with big bullets it jumps around, but my regular load of 140 gn is easy on the shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
7 X 64 is the most popular caliber in France, in part because the 7 X 57 is classified as "military". If you ever want to hunt in France, or even transit through France with no problems, then 7 X 64 it is. I realize French regulations are probably the last item on your list of criteria for your decision, but you just never know what the future will hold so I add it to your decision matrix.

Resurrecting an admittedly very old thread rather than starting a new one, which adressed a question current to me.

Couldn't you just stamp your barrel .275 Rigby? Would this avoid the military caliber restrictions?

I have been a gunsmith for over 50 years and until a few years ago had never had a custom rifle expressly built for me. I now have 2 so built. The first was built by a classmate and is a 7x57. Selected as my first true custom as I had never had one a rifle of that calibre and it has such a famous heritage. It was built expressly for use in Africa and to use the 175gr Nosler partition in particular. It is on a 1909 Mauser action and is everything I want in a plainsrifle. I took it to Zimbabwe and it was without fault on several Kudu (4 I think) out to ranges exceeding 200yds. Accuracy for 3 rounds (it has a very slim 22" bbl and climbs after 3 shots as it gets hot quickly) is around 1/2" consistently. Since it is not a varmint cartridge I have never worried about a particularly flat trajectory. If you may recall the magical long shot in the Indian Wars was a mile and it was with a Sharps that had the tradidtional rainbow trajectory. I'm sure the 7x64 will have a much flatter trajectory with the same bullet,but my question is, so what? If you know where your rifle shoots at the prerequisite ranges and can judge those ranges accurately ( I can't so I rarely shoot over 150-200 yds if possible) you should be just as accurate with either one. I never even considered ANY 7mm other than the 7x57 for my own use.

The long throated 7 x 57 Ruger Tang safety model 77 sure likes the heavier bullets. These are the last two shots from my wife's range session this weekend at 100 yards.

The ammo is extremely inexpensive SELLIER & BELLOT AMMO 7x57 173gr SPCE at $14.00/box of 20.

She loves the way the gun recoils as well.

I would go with the 7x64.

quote:

Originally posted by ghundwan:
Thank-you for all the advice. I have just put my money down on the CZ 550 in 7x64.

That combo will serve you well for a very long time.

I've got both, a Ruger No1 in 7x57, late manufacture and a great shooter.

I've just built a 7x64 and it had the first dozen rounds down the tube last weekend.
It's looking good so far with both loads, one pushing a 154gr Interlock and the other a 160gr Woodleigh, showing a lot of potential.

I recently did a comparison test of the Woodleigh 160 PPSN 7mm projectile fired from my 7x57 and 7mmRM. In the 7x57 it opened less and penetrated the most. In the 7mmRM it opened very early and penetrated the least. This test confirmed my observations in the field on feral camels.

My conclusion, for plains game it would be perfect in the 7x64.

For Springbok I would load the 'softest' projectile you can find that shoots well in your 7x64.

I am very happy with my choice. I shot this springbuck at 570m with my 7x64. I used a 139gr Hornady bullet at 3100fps. Very accurate and flat shooting.

I've done a good bit of shooting with both. I consider this 7x57 vs 7x64 debate much the same as a .308 vs .30-06 debate. Both are fine cartridges and both will do about the same on any game.

The only difference I noticed was when shooting 175gr bullets. The 7x57 did not do very well with them. The problem was not one of accuracy but one of terminal performance. The 175 bullets from the 7x57 were moving too slowly to open up and would regularly go through-and-through without expanding. I found 154gr loads worked out best for me with that cartridge.

The 7x64 is a jewel of a round--accurate, easy on the shoulder, and has that not everyone has it quality to it also.

I shot it for 5-6 years for my deer, pronghorn, exotic rifle. I went to a 7mm mag and do not know how much i gained out of it.

My wife shoots one as her big game rifles, With 150 and 160 grain bullets, it will do about 80% of all big game hunting out there.

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by ghundwan:
I cannot decide between the 7x57 Mauser or the 7x64 Brenneke and I need some expert advice.

My heart has always been set on the 7x57 but looking at the various trajectory tables the 7x64 is substantially flatter with the same bullet.

Im certainly not the one to ask on the 7MMX57, or the 7MMX64, as I've never been able to warm up to the 7MM! However given the choice between the two here I would be looking at the 7X64'but that is just me.

My opinion is,however, if your heart is set on a 7X57, then you will never be happy till you have one, so with that in mind, if in your shoes, I would buy a nice 7X57 and be done with it. Which is best is the one you want the most!

......................................

Although I have four or five 7X57's, plus a couple more 7X57R's, and only one 7X64. for game beyond 250 meters, the 7X64 would be my choice.

I have a German friend who has taken elk, moose, caribou and Alaskan brown bear with his 7X64, although I consider the last stretching it a bit.



Personally, I shot all my larger plains game (eland, greater kudu) with a .375 H&H, and most of the medium plains game (wildebeest, kongoni, sable, waterbuck) with a .300 H&H, although I did take out a couple of brindled wildebeest at close range with the 7X57.