THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM BOW HUNTING FORUM

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Picture of Boss Kongoni
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quote:
Also if you look at history the crossbow was used to defeat armor and most archers shot in a volley arrows at a distance they did not have to be good just fast to keep arrows in the air and somewhat on target. You have been watching too much robin hood. LOL


Actually If YOU would read some history. Crossguns were used mostly in defence of home & castle. Crossgunners were typically wiped out on the field of battle due to the lenght of time it took to cock & lock.

English & Roman archer divisions were known for vollys. Some historians feel the Celt ancestors of the modern English learn the field volly from the Roman invaiders.

The bow was used differently in warfare on 6 of the 7 contentes that is occured. (the aborigenese of Austraila never developed the Bow but, mastered the Atlatal. Which also casts an Arrow like dart....but is not a bow just like your CrossGun is NOT a bow. It is two leaf type springs held under tension by a locking devise. Bows are drawn & held by the Archer even a Moron should be able to understand that.

The Asian Stepp horse archers rode into battel shooting. The Turks Ustilized sniper archers. The Japanesse utilized scrimmage line of Archers like Europen millitary did with muskets in the 1700's.

All the shots in the Earl Flinn Robin Hood movie were real shots taken by Howard Hill. The stuntmen were actually shot, they had 2" wood planks under thier garments.


If you can't smell his breath, your're not close enough!

 
Posts: 980 | Location: Illinois | Registered: 04 January 2003Reply With Quote
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I have yet to see one incident of pets and people being killed by xbows show me the links I think you cannot!!!


I had to laugh when I read this. If there is a tool that can harm, people will use it to do just that whether it be animals or people. That is just human nature.





Dead Wife
Crossbow enthusiast
Shot in the face
Crossbow enthusiast 2
Crossbow enthusiasts can't shoot straight, but still manage to kill mentally and physically challenged girl
Cat shot
Dog killed
Sea Lion shot
Cow killed
Crossbow enthusiast takes hostages
Dead Woman
Father killed
Man who shot first wife with crossbow shoots second with shotgun
Cat shot
Crossbow enthusiast shot by officers
Woman killed
Crossbow shooter finishes with ax
Crossbow enthusiast shoots at neighbor
Crossbow hitmen
Deer poachersthrill killers
Man killed women beaten
Cat shot

On February 20, 1994, in Massachusetts, Donald Graham a 54-
year-old bookkeeper [and church deacon] became embroiled in a
heated, on-going traffic dispute with Michael Blodgett, [age] 42.
After the motorists antagonized each other for several miles on ...
Interstate [95], they both pulled over to an access road and got out
of their vehicles. At that point Graham retrieved a powerful
crossbow from his trunk and murdered Blodgett with a razor-sharp
20-inch arrow.

If you want to see more search in countries like England or Australia where gun control has made people more creative. This kind of thing happens everyday in the US but doesn't get as much press because people are not shocked by rednecks shooting cats with crossbows anymore. People use guns, poison, golf clubs, etc... to kill and maim people and animals everyday.

quote:
Chances are some of these pet things are done by kids using the pistol and cheap chinese xbows not hunters using expensive hunting gear as is the reports I made probably done with cheap equipment that a kid could afford. Most rational adults do not shoot pets or people with any kind of archery gear but as we can see it does happen and I would guess most times by troubled kids.


I agree wholeheartedly. It's not the hunters that bother me, it is the crazy rednecks who give hunters and people in general a bad name. I'm not saying all crossbow hunters are crazy rednecks or psychologicaly disturbed teens. But, do disturbed teens and crazy rednecks own crossbows?

Yes, every one of them.
 
Posts: 44 | Location: Denver, CO | Registered: 17 February 2006Reply With Quote
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Uh, before you ask. No that is NOT Steve Martin's cat.
 
Posts: 44 | Location: Denver, CO | Registered: 17 February 2006Reply With Quote
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OK Dman I stand corrected there are more incidents than I was aware of but in the same respect I would bet a lot of bow misuse is out there too. I also say that a lot of kids are doing this or adults that are afraid to shoot the neighbors cat with a gun as they may get caught so they use something silent like a bow or xbow or pellet gun that does not do the job. Just goes to show that a target tip does not work well compared to a broadhead so that tells me most of these folks are not hunters but misguided idiots. For boss no matter how hard you try it is crossbow not crossgun are you chinese?? As only the chinese have refered to them as that and they screw up things anyway when it comes to translation. The Premise of bad crossbow use by a few is just as dumb as saying the same about pistols all pistols are bad because gang members use them ect. A good point you did say dman is that if guns are banned folks will find more creative ways to kill each other. Been that way since man first picked up a stick!


lib*er*al: `li-b(&-)r&l
Noun: a person so open minded their brains have fallen out
 
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003Reply With Quote
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Nor is a crossbow....a bow no mater what it looks like.

A liitle more History for you.The cross bow was named after the christian Cross that it resembles in it's "unloaded" state. Tis was prior to the developement of firearms.

NOW go lok at your weapon of choice if anything it loks like a rifle(gun) and a bow...Hence Crossgun in modern terms.

Do understand I don't have a problem with your hunting with it.

And you are corect in your eariler posts we should support each other as hunters. beer

Besides I can out shot a crossgunner on my worst day. jumping


If you can't smell his breath, your're not close enough!

 
Posts: 980 | Location: Illinois | Registered: 04 January 2003Reply With Quote
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The thing is your use of the term crossgun is incorrect wether you like that term or not. The correct term is crossbow and they have been called that long before there was a discussion of the pros and cons on a internet webpage. I do stand corrected on the crossbow incidents as they are disturbing but they as I would guess any bow incidents are a small number compared to other more popular weapons as guns, knives and clubs. Still since some folks precieve the xbow as evil which goes back to the times of the crusades more history LOL as the Pope and the Church were not happy that the xbow could defeat the armor like I said before it gave the xbow a undeserved evil label which is stupid considering it is not any more evil than any other weapon of war at that time. Nor is it today even though we use them for sporting purposes and that includes the gun, xbow, and bow. Still no weapon we use for sporting purposes we should hate to see get bad press as it hurts us all as sportsmen and sportswomen.


lib*er*al: `li-b(&-)r&l
Noun: a person so open minded their brains have fallen out
 
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003Reply With Quote
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No a crossbow is not a bow but it is not a gun either. it is what it is and it still is an archery product no matter how you look at it. You cannot get away from the fact it shoots arrows and the arrows act the same no matter if they are shot out of a bow or a xbow. In fact today the term arrow would be more correct over the term bolt as bolts were very short arrows while todays xbows use arrows from 16 to 22 inches and some a bit longer even.


lib*er*al: `li-b(&-)r&l
Noun: a person so open minded their brains have fallen out
 
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003Reply With Quote
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jh,

you're all over the place.

you want to be very specific that a crossgun isn't a crossbow yet want to insist the device shoots arrows not bolts. bewildered

reminds me of a crossbow guy on some other forums that's so sure crossbows are real bows, he submitted his crossbow killed buck to the P&Y Club for scoring. animal
 
Posts: 3167 | Location: out behind the barn | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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I really do not care nothing about pope and young either my point was the xbows of today shoot projectiles that are more like arrows than some of the xbows of the past. While the aborigionals used xbows that shot longer arrows along with the Chinese the ones we see in books ect that Europe used were so heavy the draw lengh was only a few inches so the bolts were short 5 to 6 inches in a lot of cases that is the point I was trying to make that the xbows we use to day shoots a longer arrow. Bolt as a term is interchangable with arrow as if you look in the dictionary the term bolt says it is a short arrow. The point I was trying to make was that todays xbow arrows with the exception of the flat or half moon nocks look the same as any other arrow and perform the same too. Like it or not Arrow is interchangeable with bolt. It may be confusing to some but the bottom line is a bolt is a arrow and more folks are dropping the bolt conotation and using arrow.


lib*er*al: `li-b(&-)r&l
Noun: a person so open minded their brains have fallen out
 
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003Reply With Quote
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in the past, I've noticed when the crossgun guy finally backs himself into a corner, he proposes that ALL weapons be allowed during the bow only seasons.

It is an infringement on the bow only seasons and opens the door to more infringements as has already been proven in some states. Fact.
 
Posts: 3167 | Location: out behind the barn | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by ncboman:
in the past, I've noticed when the crossgun guy finally backs himself into a corner, he proposes that ALL weapons be allowed during the bow only seasons.

It is an infringement on the bow only seasons and opens the door to more infringements as has already been proven in some states. Fact.


No I do not propose any weapon be used in bow seasons I never have. I do feel that xbows belong in archery season as they are a archery platform. IN WI the bow hunters have a fit that they have a gun doe season in the end of Oct for 4 days. I have hunted it and I have no problem with it either way wether they keep that or not. I know some bow hunters do not gun hunt so they think ANY season is a infringement on their bow seasons. Well I hate to bust their bubble but their are other folks that like to hunt with their selective weapon too so it is fair for every one. Bow seasons are long enough that any bow hunter should be happy with the length of season they get and they normally get the rut too so what more can they ask for. I cannot see most states giving exbows their own season when they can fit in the regular archery season fine with no negative impact. How did I back my self in a corner I stand on what I said and I also said I stand corrected on not seeing any bad xbow press you guys have shown me that. Speaking of that here is a well publicized pic of a bow hunting accident. It goes both ways and instead of infighting we all should be sticking together against the anti's as I said before this fight is just as dumb as the muzzle loader debate. Yea I use them too. Heck I still have a Martin Compound.



lib*er*al: `li-b(&-)r&l
Noun: a person so open minded their brains have fallen out
 
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003Reply With Quote
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About my arrow comments look at the what crossbows are using today they are arrows plain and simple. Only thing different is the nocks. In fact there are a couple of xbows out there that use a system that you use a regular arrow nock. That does not make me all over the place just pointing out a simularity that the projectiles are the same between both systems.


lib*er*al: `li-b(&-)r&l
Noun: a person so open minded their brains have fallen out
 
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003Reply With Quote
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An observation from some one else:

What's really interesting is at 3D shoots today, the compound archer (finger, mechanical release and unlimited category) all shoot from the same stake as the xbow archers....them vertical shooters don't seem to argue about an unfair advantage nor do they complain that xbow shooters should compete with the rifle guys at the rifle range, do they?


lib*er*al: `li-b(&-)r&l
Noun: a person so open minded their brains have fallen out
 
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Boss Kongoni
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O.K. I'm convinced a crossbow is just the same as a compound or trad.bow.

Now,I want your support in getting Atlatl's included in Bowseason too.



there are archery equipment just like a cross bow is...RIGHT?



As you can see they are every bit as effective as a crossbow. The "dart" looks exactly like an Arrow, doesn't it?

Here's a good site about Atlatl: http://www.atlatl.com/index.html
(click on pics to enlarge)


If you can't smell his breath, your're not close enough!

 
Posts: 980 | Location: Illinois | Registered: 04 January 2003Reply With Quote
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Our ranges don't allow crossbows, as they aren't in keeping with archery.

the chef
 
Posts: 2763 | Registered: 11 March 2004Reply With Quote
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I can only throw a 2' three shot group with my Atlatl. I have however, put a dart witha 160 gr, field tip through a sheet of 3/4" plywood(4" penetration)

I'm sure if I practiced 4-5 times a week I'd be throwing groups like this.



If you can't smell his breath, your're not close enough!

 
Posts: 980 | Location: Illinois | Registered: 04 January 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Boss Kongoni:
I can only throw a 2' three shot group with my Atlatl. I have however, put a dart witha 160 gr, field tip through a sheet of 3/4" plywood(4" penetration)

I'm sure if I practiced 4-5 times a week I'd be throwing groups like this.



Boss,
at my age I might throw my shoulder and have to find a crossgun that shoots arrows. mgun Big Grin
 
Posts: 3167 | Location: out behind the barn | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Boss Kongoni:
I can only throw a 2' three shot group with my Atlatl. I have however, put a dart witha 160 gr, field tip through a sheet of 3/4" plywood(4" penetration)

I'm sure if I practiced 4-5 times a week I'd be throwing groups like this.



Well I would have no problem with it and it is interesting that the WI Conservation Congress Hearings they have every spring brought this up wanting to add them to the archery season and the bow hunters shot this down too as they did crossbows for general use. The Conservation Congress is a meeting that is held by the DNR and any one can come and vote on fish and game rule changes or new propositions. It is held every spring in WI all over the state. So the Bow hunters ASS in WI shot down both ideas.


lib*er*al: `li-b(&-)r&l
Noun: a person so open minded their brains have fallen out
 
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003Reply With Quote
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I'm not going to argue the crossbow issue any more than need be. I have nothing to prove to anyone. I'm the one who feels the pain, and it is the only way I can come close to bow hunting. I'd rather do that than sit home, because a bunch of PBS or some other archery organization, tries to shove their morality down my throat. If they don't like it, keep sending letters to your state officials. You can't alway have it your way. That is a lesson I taught my kids years ago. I said in my post I used to be a traditionlist. That does not count, just that I use an "OH MY" Shhhhhhh crossbow? Boss I can tell by your post your the guy that has to win every argument, or you cry about it, and everyone else is wrong. Just take your bat and ball, and go home. I would not sit at your campfire, I choose my battles carefully, and this one is not a what I call a good battle being out numbered 2500-1. You should be more careful who you invite to your camp fires. Your fire could be smothered. You 2500 guys could they try and show me how to restart it with your flint heads, and bow and string. Hell, even the boy scouts can do that. Are you sure your not affiliated with the BSA. They still teach archery, and how to start fires, and even first aid. I did make the mistake and say that the traditionlist are the worst archers out there. Statistically this is true, because of the number of compound users vs Traditional equipment users. There are those responsible people, who practice, or just plain know their limits. Some folks are just plain great shots. Jerry Brahum of Great Northen Longbows, is or was one of these fine gentlemen, and I would sit at his fire any time. I did so at a big traditional shoot in Denton Hill Pa. But I have shot field rounds, with light weight target recurves, and I don't know too many "new traditionlist", who can even hit the 80 yd target, let alone hit it in the ten ring. I'm by no means new to archery. As someone posted, there are slobs in archery, gun, and crossbow users. I do not agree with it in the regular bow season, unless you have a handicap permit. I even feel you should have to use a cocking device, or you can't get one. But I will not sit back, and listen to a bunch of horse crap. I don't hunt with it by choice, I do it because of an injury. And by the way, it's every license holders season, not just a "special group of idiots". If the state, my doctor and myself think it is ok, then every else can kiss where the sun don't shine!
 
Posts: 110 | Location: SWPA | Registered: 11 January 2003Reply With Quote
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Buthcher why don't you go reread some of the poses NOBODY has stated that they disagree with the handicapped or severely injured using crossbows for hunting. Even during the bow season we ALL have said it's ok and even desireable for the handicapped to use them. I just don't see what your post has to do with anyones case against using them during the bow season.

the chef
 
Posts: 2763 | Registered: 11 March 2004Reply With Quote
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Butcher - Do you actually read these posts?

I don't think a crossbow belongs in Bowseason because it's cocked & locked.....Nothing more.

I don't believe threating people from the saftey of a computor screen. You are welcome to say anything you'd like to me in person at Cloverdale.


If you can't smell his breath, your're not close enough!

 
Posts: 980 | Location: Illinois | Registered: 04 January 2003Reply With Quote
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Butcher,

interesting post.

per your condition, I'm all for the truely handicapped being allowed to play. Smiler

I have friends that have hunted with xguns in Md and every one of them states it's easier to kill a deer with the xgun as you don't have to move before the shot to draw.

Also we have noted some xbow users don't seem to possess the high ethics historicly associated with bowhunters. We assume this is because crossbows don't require much practice for one to feel deadly. About the only commitment required is buying the device.

FYI, I bulled the 80yard target when I set the NFAA range record at LRAFB/Bayou Meto Bowmen back in '73. I was shooting a Herters Sambar so all of your rant don't wash. Big Grin

Crossguns are an infringement on the bow only seasons and invite bad press for our chosen pursuit, not to mention opening the door to other infringements by special interest hungry politicians.
 
Posts: 3167 | Location: out behind the barn | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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nc, Herter's, that's a word I have not heard in a while. I shot an old black widow. I used to burn my fletch on a Young's feather burner. After about 100 raw shafts, you might end up with a dozen good ones. Boss, I'm sorry, but by you inviting me to your camp fire, and showing me how I was talking out my ass, sounded kind of threatning to me. As I said in my first post, we could all be fighting the anti's, not each other. I feel like all the equipment today, is like something out of the Jetsons, It is so high tech, that the bows don't even look like bows. P&Y, keep raising the let off limit, and when is all the "help" going to stop. That is what I liked about tradtional archery. Basically just a stick and string. It requires practice and skill. I was good to 25 yds with hunting equipment. Beyond that, I'd just let them walk. I use all of the skill I learned in bowhunting in all of my hunting, be it with a slug gun, rifle, or my crossbow. I shoot an excalibur, and I still have to find the FOC, and pre shoot all of my bolts. I find them less forgiving, than a compound or long bow as to arrow flight. I weigh to with in a grain or two. I'm not really into threatning people, and I apoligize. The doors are already being opened. Ten Point, Horton, and Excalibur, have spent a lot of money promoting crossbows. Hunting being on the decline, I think we should do what we have to, to bring the numbers up. More women and youth, can cock a crossbow, and use more weight, I'm actually for this. I don't think crossbows actually take that many more animals. The mature whitetail, is still going to require all the skill and knowledge aquired. I think the treestand, has accounted for more archery deer, then any other single piece of equipment. I still do most of my hunting on the ground, with my woolrich malones, and a brown and green wool shirt. With all the scentlok, and other garments out there, it is has all become about the kill, not the hunt. Sorry for the arguing, but I do practice, and am very ethical. All of my animals, have come from fair chase, and no bait. Most off of the ground. It would take an extensive study, to determine the actual effect of crossbows in the woods. Ohio would be a good source of info, as they allow both throughout the whole season. Sorry for the poor taste comments. I guess I was just retaliating. Normal function, I know better. I just wish I could shoot the old stuff, and struggle with it on every trip afield. I hope this makes sense. Butcher
 
Posts: 110 | Location: SWPA | Registered: 11 January 2003Reply With Quote
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Butcher - Accepted. We all get passoinate about things we care about in life.

I get up earily enough to walk & train my dogs and shoot a few arrows before I go to work. I've got a McKenzie in the shop and take a few shots at lunch.

And so when I read stuff like, "Traditional shooters are the worst shots out there"

Of course I'd welcome the chance to prove that person wrong. Wink

I shoot more with Compounders than I do with trad guys. When we go to 3-Ds I shoot the MBO stakes with everyone else. I find it more of a challenge to shooting with the hi-tech guys. Do you have any idea how hard it is to hit those little plasic vanes??? Big Grin....Only by accident...of course. Wink


If you can't smell his breath, your're not close enough!

 
Posts: 980 | Location: Illinois | Registered: 04 January 2003Reply With Quote
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crossbows are legal archery equipment in B.C.
i talked to a guy from the local sporting goods
store X-bows out sell (regular bows) by 3-2
so some day in b.c. you regular bow guys might
be the minority then maybe we'll kick you guys
out of our season. but seriously instead of
shooting holes (pun intended) in each others
form of hunting maybe we should learn to stand
together before we hang seperate
 
Posts: 136 | Location: s.e. bc | Registered: 16 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
we should learn to stand
together before we hang seperate


Yip!!!..gotta agree with that logic!!


The year of the .30-06!!
100 years of mostly flawless performance on demand.....Celebrate...buy a new one!!
 
Posts: 858 | Location: MD Eastern Shore | Registered: 24 May 2005Reply With Quote
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Yea I agree too! Other hunters are not the enemy the tree huggers and the anti's are!


lib*er*al: `li-b(&-)r&l
Noun: a person so open minded their brains have fallen out
 
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003Reply With Quote
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I will not argue about compound versus crossbow as i use both, all i have to say is it takes practice to use either ethicly and after 30 years of bowhunting i have seen more abuse by compound users than by any group of bow hunters. Most compound users buy their bow shoot it regularly for about a month maybe 2 then put it up till next season. If they can hit a pie plate at 20 yards they are good to go. So instead of arguing compound or xbow, how about reqirements that you be able to shoot either ethicly. Which in my opinion is better than being able to hit a 12 inch circle at 20 yds.
 
Posts: 2 | Location: oklahoma | Registered: 27 June 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by pntfrmr:
I will not argue about compound versus crossbow as i use both, all i have to say is it takes practice to use either ethicly and after 30 years of bowhunting i have seen more abuse by compound users than by any group of bow hunters. Most compound users buy their bow shoot it regularly for about a month maybe 2 then put it up till next season. If they can hit a pie plate at 20 yards they are good to go. So instead of arguing compound or xbow, how about reqirements that you be able to shoot either ethicly. Which in my opinion is better than being able to hit a 12 inch circle at 20 yds.


Good Post! You have to admit that the use of releases and compound bows make it a lot easier to shoot than the recurves used to be so I think a lot of folks do not figure they need to practice as much. I also know of the guys who shoot to see if they can still hit a pie plate and call it good. shooting at a target in the open and shooting in a hunting situation is a lot different. I practice a lot no matter what I am shooting.


lib*er*al: `li-b(&-)r&l
Noun: a person so open minded their brains have fallen out
 
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003Reply With Quote
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The arguement over crossbows is a joke. Crossbows are archery wether some traditional jerk off likes it or not.

Game departments like crossbows because they sell more archery permits. Crossbow organizations actually pursue legislators also. Where as most of the traditional recurve/long bow/compound bow shooters like to cry like the bitches they are rather then actually get off their nuts long enough to promote the sport or fight for it.

I've seen and turned in enough assholes over the years for gut shooting deer with a compound bow.To know better then to believe that crossbow hunters are causing more problems then other forms of archery.

I believe that the eastern states probably do have some of the best traditional shooters.For the simple fact that people are forced due to regulation to use archery equipment. Therefore they shoot more. However,the western states have some of the worst shots around. The recurve and long bow shooters are the worst by far. Most of them weren't worth a shit with a release and sights and its even worse with a stick and string.

I bowfish with a recurve and I hunt with both a matthews bow and a ten point crossbow. I shoot indoor league with the matthews. I've seen by far the worst shooting and preperation by the "traditional shooters". I've had 12 year old kids take a crossbow and out shoot guys who have spent a life time shooting a recurve year round.
 
Posts: 187 | Registered: 18 March 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
I've seen and turned in enough assholes over the years for gut shooting deer with a compound bow.To know better then to believe that crossbow hunters are causing more problems then other forms of archery.


bull

Where is it illegal to gut shoot deer and how are the laughs when you 'turn them in' ??? rotflmo
 
Posts: 3167 | Location: out behind the barn | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by sledder:
Crossbows are archery wether some traditional jerk off likes it or not.

Where as most of the traditional recurve/long bow/compound bow shooters like to cry like the bitches they are rather then actually get off their nuts long enough to promote the sport or fight for it.


I believe that the eastern states probably do have some of the best traditional shooters.For the simple fact that people are forced due to regulation to use archery equipment. Therefore they shoot more.

However,the western states have some of the worst shots around. The recurve and long bow shooters are the worst by far. Most of them weren't worth a shit with a release and sights and its even worse with a stick and string.

I've seen by far the worst shooting and preperation by the "traditional shooters". I've had 12 year old kids take a crossbow and out shoot guys who have spent a life time shooting a recurve year round.



Well that certainly makes me feel like supporting you bow-gunners. Roll Eyes


If you can't smell his breath, your're not close enough!

 
Posts: 980 | Location: Illinois | Registered: 04 January 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Madgoat:
I think cargarychef said it best. If these hunting seasons are supposed to be for more "traditional" and primitive forms of weapons, are the advances with technology going to ruin it for everyone? I feel the world of blackpowder is already there. A guy with a flintlock doesn't hold a candle to these new inline jobs!

MG


What do you define as "traditional" or "primitive"?

http://www.computersmiths.com/chineseinvention/crossbow.htm

This is the old "ethical elitist" argument. Flyfishers are better, most gun hunters only pick up their guns once a year, handguns aren't useful for hunting blah, blah, blah.

I've just bought my first crossbow. Yeah, I bought it because I want more time in the field for big game than I can get with my rifles - one week gun season for deer, and one week vacation for moose. I own a dozen rifles and can realistically only use most of them 2 weeks of the year. Frowner

I practice with my rifles 2 or 3 times a month, at the shooting club. But, with the crossbow, I can set up on my own 1 acre property (complete with my step-kids newly built playhouse that just HAPPENS to be the perfect elevated platform for me to practice crossbow shooting from - though I'll never admit to having that dual use in mind when I designed it Wink ) and practice to my heart's content.
 
Posts: 2921 | Location: Canada | Registered: 07 March 2001Reply With Quote
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So why couldn't you use a bow and practise on your property?
 
Posts: 2763 | Registered: 11 March 2004Reply With Quote
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CC, this is not to start a pissing match.

Why do you use a recurve instead of a longbow?

Do you use silencers?

Composite bows, or wood saplings? Nylon string or animal sinew? Aluminum, carbon or wooden shafts? Feather or plastic vanes? Razor broadheads or stone chips?

Which are "traditional" or "primitive" and which aren't?

Is there something wrong with building a better mousetrap?

Life is all about choices, and I chose a crossbow.

Anti's don't need fuel for their fires. They're against hunting - period! In-fighting like this just helps them.

AFAIC, hunting methods need to meet only one criteria:

They have to be humane (in the true sense of the word, not the anti emotional/aesthetics definition) ie. whatever method used, when performed properly, with reasonable skill and due consideration of all the variables, the animal dies with a minimum amount of suffering.
 
Posts: 2921 | Location: Canada | Registered: 07 March 2001Reply With Quote
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I use a recurve because there is an added element of challenge. I'm not a primitive archer but the game has a hell of a lot more chance of survival with my little recurve that a crossbow.

Recurves and longbows and to a lesser extent compound bows fit with the "spirit" of how we got longer bow seasons. Crossbows, offer an unfair advantage in regards to the way and reasons the seasons were set up. Want to use a crossbow go ahead!! Just don't mess up my archery seasons.

Example in Sask you can use a bow for big game-but there are generally no extended seasons for archery. Everyone gets 2 weeks to hunt deer, period. This makes it very hard to bow hunt. If the archers are ever successful in lobbying for an extended bow season it will be on the basis that bows are harder to score with than guns. Along come the crossbow users and say we want to hunt in the same season as the bow hunters. What happens to that season? Yup it gets shortened or eliminated, due to the FACT that crossbows are more efficient.

Here in Alberta moose is another prime example the higher the kill rates go the more areas go into draws for moose tags. This makes sense it conserves the moose. To allow crossbows would relult in higher success rates-not a bad thing from an individuals perspective!! But it eventually results in lower hunting opportunitys for everyone else who have fought and lobbied for the extended seasons in the first place.

If you had a smokless powder gun that would fire an arrow, does that qualify you to hunt in a bow season? Of course not it would be too easy. Extended seasons are there because archery is harder has a lower success rate than guns. Using the argument that we must use all technology at our disposal to make hunting easier/more efficient/more humane will result in lost hunting opportunity for everyone. I started bowhunting not to be elitist, it's not, but to be able to hunt more.

In areas that have huge deer populations that really need managing, I'm in favour of using what ever means is necessary. Some of the States have populations like this and what the hell-go hard with whatever you want. The necessary result in this case is less deer no matter how.

the chef
 
Posts: 2763 | Registered: 11 March 2004Reply With Quote
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Here we go with the MY bullshit again. Christ you bow hunters think you own the fricking woods well guess what you don't. Well not all of it anyway.If ya got private property more power to you but if you hunt public or forest crop land ect learn to share! I get so damn tired of bow hunters saying MY DEER and MY seasons. GROW UP. The resouce is for every one no matter what they chose to use bow or xbow. For the Record I hunted with a bow for 36 plus years and I never had the attitude some of you folks do. Yea I also gun hunt and muzzle load hunt to. Out of all of that I have seen at least on the internet that bow hunters are the most selfish folks out there hunting and that is a shame. Grow up and share the woods with others who like to hunt and save your venom for the anti hunters who should get your abuse not an other hunter or hunters. Note it is YOUR deer when you tag it. Until then it is fair game for who ever can hunt it and kill it. That goes for the seasons too if xbows are allowed in a archery season big deal it is the broadhead that kills and it does not care what propels it nor I would be does the deer give a shit either either way it is dead if the hunter does his job right.


lib*er*al: `li-b(&-)r&l
Noun: a person so open minded their brains have fallen out
 
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003Reply With Quote
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One other thing you said you started archery to hunt more well so do a lot of xbow hunters feel the same and hunt with a xbow a bit then make your claims. All you anti xbow folks say how easy it is well xbows have their problems just like the vert bows do and have you ever missed a deer because a branch got in the way or grass or a tree. I would bet you have. Same thing can happen with a xbow that arrow knows no difference. Ever have your limb hit something branch ect same thing with a xbow. xbows have a lot of the same challenges the vert bows do. I know I have used and hunted with both. I also do not hunt from trees but shoot from the ground. I still get my fair share of deer and the deer see me move if they take off fine if not I get a shot. So the comments about the deer not seeing you move and draw does not cut it with me they see me move to shoot.

One other thing I have not seen anywhere where any archery seasons have been shortened or eliminated by the use of xbows. At least not in the states. If it has happened in Canada you better get your laws changed.


lib*er*al: `li-b(&-)r&l
Noun: a person so open minded their brains have fallen out
 
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by calgarychef1:
I use a recurve because there is an added element of challenge. I'm not a primitive archer but the game has a hell of a lot more chance of survival with my little recurve that a crossbow.

A lot more chance of survival, or wounding? Are you saying that regular bows are inaccurate? Bet lots of anti's would love to read that!!

Recurves and longbows and to a lesser extent compound bows fit with the "spirit" of how we got longer bow seasons. Crossbows, offer an unfair advantage in regards to the way and reasons the seasons were set up. Want to use a crossbow go ahead!! Just don't mess up my archery seasons.

OK, so it's about "spirit" ie. feelings. So you're letting emotions overrule fact? Another boost for the anti's!

Example in Sask you can use a bow for big game-but there are generally no extended seasons for archery. Everyone gets 2 weeks to hunt deer, period. This makes it very hard to bow hunt. If the archers are ever successful in lobbying for an extended bow season it will be on the basis that bows are harder to score with than guns. Along come the crossbow users and say we want to hunt in the same season as the bow hunters. What happens to that season? Yup it gets shortened or eliminated, due to the FACT that crossbows are more efficient.

Seasons are allotted on the basis of game management, first. Methods are secondary and go hand in hand with maximizing hunter opportunities. Aren't you just being petty and selfish in trying to restrict opportunities for fellow hunters? Until recently, I could only get one deer tag for rifle hunting in Ontario, while bowhunters could get as many as eight. Is that a fair distribution of the resource?

Here in Alberta moose is another prime example the higher the kill rates go the more areas go into draws for moose tags. This makes sense it conserves the moose. To allow crossbows would relult in higher success rates-not a bad thing from an individuals perspective!! But it eventually results in lower hunting opportunitys for everyone else who have fought and lobbied for the extended seasons in the first place.

If you had a smokless powder gun that would fire an arrow, does that qualify you to hunt in a bow season? Of course not it would be too easy. Extended seasons are there because archery is harder has a lower success rate than guns. Using the argument that we must use all technology at our disposal to make hunting easier/more efficient/more humane will result in lost hunting opportunity for everyone. I started bowhunting not to be elitist, it's not, but to be able to hunt more.

From what I've learned so far, crossbows have a shorter range than longbows. By your argument, we shouldn't be allowing bow hunting either, but should restrict everyone to throwing spears.

"easier/more efficient/more humane" is what will save hunting. The average person doesn't give a crap what we do, as long as we aren't outrightly torturing animals. Humane and efficient hunting methods are the biggest argument we have against the anti's.


In areas that have huge deer populations that really need managing, I'm in favour of using what ever means is necessary. Some of the States have populations like this and what the hell-go hard with whatever you want. The necessary result in this case is less deer no matter how.

the chef
 
Posts: 2921 | Location: Canada | Registered: 07 March 2001Reply With Quote
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You fellers just don't get it do you? We take this stance because once a season is reduced it rarely if ever gets reinstated. What would be so hard for you to buy a compound??? The antis are hard to fight and you don't make it any better by juming up and down and shouting like little kids.

Additionally saying something is in "the spirit of" has legal connotations it's not about my feelings. It's about the reasons that the extended seasons were set up origionally.

So I guess this is what it will boil down to....We'll have to see what happens in the future with the legislation. I'll of course do my best to make sure I can maintain what I like by writing letters to my member of Parliment. You can do whatever you like to try and lobby for inclusion in the bow season. All I can do is urge all the bowhunters I encounter to do as I am and be involved. You go ahead and flood the forums with your blather I'll do something cocnrete.

the chef
 
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