Folks,

My wife Lisa and I received some photos of a rifle made by Tom Burgess (aka Systeme98) and Jerry Fisher. The owner asked us to post these phots for him and a bit of information on the rifle. The owner of the rifle wished to remain anonymous, however.

It is a fine example of a DGR.

Here is a few excepts from the letter that accompanied the photos:

“During a recent conversation with Tom, he expressed interest in having this rifle posted on Accurate Reloading’s website […].

“I hope the rifle could be posted for viewing as a sample of Tom’s unparalleled metalwork and Jerry’s superlative stocking as what it is…the work of two real “masters”.

“For your information […] specifics on this 3UE…Third Ultimate Enfield are as follows:

“ Started with Remington-contract Enfield. This iteration of the Enfield has evolved over the years. Only a couple of original Enfield parts remain. Tom needs to give exact specifics, but:
1. New Bolt Handle
2. Extended Tang…bent downward
3. Re-worked Bolt
4. Special bolt-guide
5. Full 3-position swing type safety…M70-type
6. Re-designed bolt release
7. Totally new, cartridge-specific magazine box. 4 cartridges “down”. This includes special, hinged floor-plate and release in guard.
8. Folding rear peep sight…Windage adjustable.
9. “Pop-up” front sight, elevation-adjustable.
10. Burgess-designed scope bases and rings…detachable, with absolute return to “zero”. Two scopes in two sets of rings, 3x and 6x.
11. Unique location of front sling swivel…allows “low” carry.

“Fisher, himself did a great job, his usual phenomenal work. Stock designed for iron sight “first” and with cast-off. Comes “up” perfectly, every time…looking precisely down through the center of the peep. This combined with ultra-smooth, highly-polished action (unique follower and follower spring) enables “from the shoulder” bolt actuation, fast follow-up shots.”

Here are the photos:

Built by: Tom Burgess – barreled action Jerry Fisher – Stockmaker. Rifle is a “Tom ‘n Jerry”



Rifle Built especially for iron sites. Detachable scope mounts complement fully windage adjustable rear peep site and elevation adjustable “pup-up” front sight.



Top Close Up – extended tang, wing safety, top view of scope bases



Left: Front-Site retracted / as when rifle is scope mounted
Right: Front-Site extended – fully elevation adjustable. Mechanism works with tiny Allen screw. Entire mechanism contained within front site.



Right side of rifle – Scope detached



Leupold scope shown re-mounted. Returns to absolute zero. Levers shown in horizontal “engaged” positions with Burgess custom machined bases



3x Leupold in Burgess detachable top mounts…shown de-mounted. Levers shown in vertical position, as they are when the scope is detached.



Straddle floorplate

Here are the rest of the photos. I hope that Tom can comment on this fine exampel of craftsmanship.

Close-up right side of rifle. Note classic Burgess bolt handle, rear peep site, M-70 type safety, precision-machined, but un-obtrusive scope bases.



Stock exhibits slight cast-off



Top view. Note svelte lines of Fisher stock job

magnificent.

What a beautiful piece of workmanship. The rear peep and the adjustable front sight are marvelous as are the bases and rings. I love Jerrry Fishers stocks and this seems like a beauty. I can bet it feeds slicker than horse booggers.

The only thing I can see that is wrong is the caliber, it should have been a .404 Jeff.

OK, I want one!

What is the caliber? And what barrel length?

Tom,

Are you going to privide a description of your wonderful work on this rifle?

jim

ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC!!!

What I want my DGR rifles to be.

When I look at a rifle like this one I know I am seeing a level of craftsmanship and refined features that will take time and study to really understand and fully appreciate.

Mr. Burgess if you are out there please give us the low down on this masterpiece.

Regards,
Dave

[ 05-15-2003, 02:36: Message edited by: DavidC ]

Elegant, sublime, magnificent.....just wow!

The taboo question must be asked,"how much?" I like to put things like this on my list of things to buy when I win the lotto.

I too would like to hear full description of everything, listing of parts manufacturers (as I have a couple of 1917's) and I would be REALLY interested in a description of how it was all done, like some of mr. Belk's explanations and pictures he has posted.

I am going to save these pictures if nobody minds.

Again, thanks for sharing such beautiful work.

Red

All I can say is: WOW!

Hey Tom--

I'm happy to see somebody posted the pics.

Could that be the same 416 that I saw in Phoenix at the '83 NRA show??

What's the little whickerbill at the front left of the ring? Scope ring recoil stop?

As good as it gets. I met Jerry at the January 2002 Vegas show and he graciously spent about 20 minutes talking to me about custom rifles. I felt very honored. Fortunately many new smiths are taking up the quest for the same high standards.

Wait until you see it with "my" old Leupold 3x sitting atop the receiver in a pair of Tom's detach mounts!
Oops! I didn't look through all the pic's. What a lovely rifle......

[ 05-15-2003, 04:18: Message edited by: John S ]

I saw an Enfield in Maurice Ottmar's shop some years ago that was a trade for some stock work that Maurice had done for Tom. It absolutely floored me. Very similar to what you see in front of you in those photos. Incredible work.

The Tom & Jerry .416 Rigby DGR. There is no way the questions will get answered in one post.

I get to see about 1/2 % of the metal work in a stock and finished. The curse of sticking to metal work because that is what I do best. In about 1/2 of the above mentioned, 1/2 I actually get to hoist the rifle up and point it and do a lot of Walter Mitty imagining and...and... and.
With Jerry Fisher and probably all of the inspired Stockmakers I have worked my part with,I'm like the guy in a pool game who gets the first shot at the rack-up, and a slop 2 or 3 in the pockets out of that. can't reach his number for the next and just nudges the cue ball. Jerry then wipes the table. Nothing left to do after he has his turn. Same story with this rifle. Its kind of neat to find that all that fussy stuff you did actually functions as intended or even beyond expectations. It was a real reward to get to handle the completed piece in a real stock instead of the butchered ex Military I use for a handle, to find that indeed you really can chamber a new round out of the magazine and from the shoulder with out getting all out of position or taking your eyes off the quarry. Owner had me install an L& S 3X for a second scope, ( so I took an inordinate ammount of time with the task) Kinda inspires one to " Keep on truckin".

Jack B ,no, this is a fairly recent one. It is actually a 3UE/2, which stands for the complete new receiver tang. From 3UE & (/1 ,/2) the receiver to mag box screw span has been 8.1"& both screws 90 degree to receiver. Yes, the rings have double recoil stop tabs. A response to the Teflon like coating on a famous make German made scope tube,(and which had overdesigned adjustments, not suitable for Mars environment)

Front ramp and Patridge .100" wide blade, date to 1967. 2 years earlier the client wanted a ramp not requiring a hood that had a post that would disappear. 1700 hours ,reams of paper and a pile of wooden models later, (not wasted, we had a fireplace in those days.) The very first one worked and well, was not setable for changing requirements in elevation, but became so in 20 minutes just before shipping. Ultimately I learned how to make it and break even. That took about 38 years. Demand for it was about 10 % for not wanting a hood, 60 % for the adjustable elevation ( more than from 6 o'clock hold to center of mass) 25 % cause no one else was nutty enough to furnish one, and about 5 % for all the above. The aperature in rear base of STD (Rdfld Jr. style)mounts adjustable for windage, is from about 1965. Sling stud at 14" from receiver face, dates from 1987. I balked but did it to shut the guy up. Well, it often DOES pay to listen to the customer, particularly if they were born in Africa and did in their first Buff- an unhappy rogue- at the tender age of 8. No one else was handy and the rogue was bent on short work to the workers huts and anything or anyperson in view. The rifle WAS much handier to carry and the butt DIDN'T hang uncomfortably. The original triggers employed were Canjar and I had to graft on a new Yanker well back in the opening. I was looking to duplicate looks and operation of the M12 Win shotgun. The center of arc is such that the arc travels because of the pivot point of the trigger bar in a line about parallel to the angle the trigger finger takes in pull as the hand arranges itself in an appropriate grip for a rapid handling DGR. The guard bow was located around this and is a modified version of the ZG 47 ZB action but with the lever for floor plate release located lower on front of bow to provide maximum engagement of plate,no additives for spring connection (plungers or lever extensions) and this also allowed a release angle of the latch tongue which is tangent to the lever arc of travel. Another thing which took way too much time, but has enough allowable deviations to be a fits-all, yet still be well close to the middle of the plus or minus limitations. Bolt handle? Not really special, .845" Dia. My standard pear shape designed to cause the least ammount of hassle for the checkerers, but larger for the deep magazine rifles, and bottom of ball even with a line straight out from the flat part of inside the guard bow where trigger comes through. This came about because the client for the first 3UE ,a .375 H & H. rifle, wanted the ball 1/4 inch BELOW that line, so I compromised with a paste on ( tacked enough to hold) Proved to myself that it looked ok, but better still improved the cocking cam leverage and GEE! you could work it from the shoulder. In order to re-inforce his confidence I told the guy that that was how I always did them on 5 shot magnums liable to be used for Alaska bears, but truth be told I rarely got away with departures from the accepted norms like this. The saving thing was 5 in the Magazine. I mention these things because what is attributed to genius by some can be designed and with great sweat, and curse words, yet some just happen, work out really well and you run with it. I have been told that if nothing else the genius might just be (and only) that you recognised a good idea that you could run with. I won't take the time to ruminate on that. Can't see from other than my side of the fence.

Table of parts that I find usable ;
* = If to Mil spec usable as is,fitted.
** = Normally OK as is, make new if won't
fit up as is.
no mark = heavily modified,for new or for
additional tasks.

Receiver, Bolt body, ejector, cocking piece

* Bolt stop screw, Extractor collar,
Firing pin.

** Trigger unit pin, Extractor, Firing
pin spring.
There are 5 major variations in the M- 17
magazine spring, I can use the last(1918)
Rem Version or the post war I Midvale
Ordnance spring.

All other parts must be made in shop to fit the order. All of it requires substantial fixturing, and heavy duty no wiggle style for machining the heat treated parts.

The only welding on the receiver is where the tang goes on, and a pair of cosmetic blips to fill the clip notch traces for the guide grooves.
The closest machining was on the Rem. Mfg and if there is an oval duck pond under the sight spring on the bridge I won't use it and I am very carefull in checking those that make it past the first cut. (to be continued)

Magnificent work of art!

Magnificent work of art!

Hey, where are the members who insist that the best big bore rifles are British?

Just joking.

Hats off to the gunsmiths as well as to the owner.

Absolutely phenomenol!!!!

X-planations, addenda, clear-ups .

1, Standard lever release rings, Recoil side (tab) stop to fit Brno style bridge notch, and front ring has a modified tab, not requiring a receiver ring notch, the heat treated to Rc. 36-38 base has a little extension to the side for meeting the front tab. Never had a L& S slip in the rings,but add around 8 oz. more weight and...

2, Front sight adjustment screw for elevation,
this was simply added to head off MY having to make a change to the sight for a change in load.
"bead" is standard square "gold" patridge on a 45 deg. which doesn't glare to the eye in sunlight.

3, Aperature is pivoted on the windage screw between flanges. Turning in the screw makes the change. In the STD type base no sleeves are required to hold the parts, With the dovetail type,the thread dia would need to be reduced, because of lack of material, thus the sleeves. Makes for complicated machining.

4, Barrel sling stud location. My debate ended when the first rifle came back with the stock for me to file the sight leaves for a different load. Owner couldnt believe I machined these vee's in an adjustable fixture and only needed sight leaf base with leaves and the fired target, new loads and old loads + yardage to make the change.

5, a, I meant to say the LOOK of the trigger in the bow on the M-12 Win. shotgun. It pulled in the direction of the trigger finger, and is one more thing not to give concern to the shooter, ie. unconsciously moving rifle off target at the last minute because of finger drag on stock. Hard habit to break in high power competition shooting. Canjar triggers became difficult to obtain for the M 17 and though the housing was the same as for '03 Springfield ,the '03 was just as out of stock. b, It was about the same hassle as making new parts for the Blackburn Mauser trigger as to fit the Canjar because My cocking cam is a Spiral of 1 turn in 1.5" ( 38 m/m) and the release location required altering the Canjar sear release and replacing the "yanker" anyhow. Milling the sides to fit the M-17 slot is no biggie, nor is changing the attaching cross pin hole location.

6, a, Guard bow release lever PIVOT was lowered
(downward) about 2 m/m. This is a great change for the release geometry and provides the verstility required to adapt to various Mag box depths yet be able to keep the guard bow about same location for a consistent grip diameter of stock.
b, Guard bow uses same radius (14 m/m) as the standard '98 Mauser at each end of the oval. being further apart lengthwise provides the depth but the bow is about 1.00 shorter inside length wise versus the usual Mauser magnum and this allows the rear ( back edge) of the plate to actually cover a .505 Gibbs box opening without butchery to the front face (plate- match) of the bow.

7 The Receiver rear tang is NOT bent down. It is a straight continuation of the bolt bore diameter, sometimes with that surface canted up to allow use of slightly over parkerised bolt bodies which when polished get smaller in diameter and provide excess wobble when the bolt picks up a new ctg. from the magazine. (compensation) The tang top curve contour is almost same as that on the 70 Win. If someone got something right, you use the feature., Besides that was brought forward from the '03 Springfield.

8, a, Receiver welding, I meant that the BRIDGE received only cosmetic welding.
b, The divots for the military mag box ears get welded in the feed well- that wasn't purposely hardened anyway, and the divots don't machine out up through .404 bodies and sometimes not completely for the .416.
c, the sear spring and anti fire- pin hole receive a silver brazed in plug. Part of this gets machined for the mag box blade clearance.
d, This blade clearance can end up in the open where the radius cuts for the sides of the tang begin. This , too, gets welded and re machined and becomes another recoil surface. tricky machining but effective.

I have hopes that this adds to, or clears up some points. (But I have that gnawing doubt I didn't catch all vagueries)

Tom, that is an absolutely gorgeous rifle that I would certainly love to own myself, and it's so much more than just another pretty rifle with the kind of beauty that's only skin-deep.

I have a beautiful .270 that you built on a pre-64 Model 70 action. You did the metalwork for a friend of mine back in 1972, and he then had it stocked by Earl Milliron. A few years ago, I bought it from him when he was starting to wind-down his hunting career. I do prize that rifle.....

AD

Well,

It doesn't get much better than this Now, were is the droll rag

The Londoners can take a hike compared to this one

Tom, thanks for the explanations. I must say I like the name Tom & Jerry. Much better than most other names

/ JOHAN

System98

That is one beautiful rifle!

I have one sort of technical question, and don't take it as a negative comment, but what are your thoughts on the rear of the trigger guard bow? I ask this because you have obviously given a lot of thought to this area, and it is an area I find critical in a lot of big bores you shoot a lot, especially with a light rifle. I have found that often the most uncomfortable aspect of the shooting these rifles is the edge of my second finger. This is generally greatly alleviated with a much more tapered shape to the bow to allow more clearance. Cosmetically, I think your treatment is better with the overall style of the rifle (more taper would not look as good) but my impression is that the bow as shown is a little too wide to shoot comfortably. Does the placement of the trigger so close to the rear overcome this effect? In that same vein, does the extreme close fit of the trigger to the bow not concern you with the possibility of a jam due to shooting gloves or weeds and sticks when hunting in thick stuff?

Any comments on this area? I think the small things like this are what set the truly great hunting rifle apart from nice guns.

elegant

1. Very choice, and hence, pleasing to good taste; characterized by grace, propriety, and refinement, and the absence of every thing offensive; exciting admiration and approbation by symmetry, completeness, freedom from blemish, and the like; graceful; tasteful and highly attractive; an elegant structure.

Nuff said

Art S, I wondered if anyone would pick up on the trigger placement and that is why I had to go back and add info. The placement of it is part and parcel with the other "reasons" for doing it as was done. The distance from the touch point of the curved part is about 7/16 " from the inside of the bow curve at the small radius. The curve itself is of lesser radius than the bow curve so that the gap between is uniform until it reaches the area where the very tip at bottom of the trigger is quite close to the large inside radius. This forms a sort of vee between the 2 parts and if there is something caught between, the movement of the trigger simply pushes it out of the way instead of allowing it to wedge itself.
Shooting those biggies with the short coupled grips always gave me a very swelled 2nd finger and I wouldn't profile the guard bow ,leaving it full width to spread the blow, but I still hurt. Same reason for s straight down bolt handle. and no checkering to become hamburger helper for my poor digit. This all changed when a fellow came into the shop and laughed at the whole idea. Push came to shove and we proceeded to shoot collector ammo in a Brit rifle that had a 2 stage Mauser trigger but which had had the trigger,"Yanker" part modified and moved back. The rear of bow was the typical Mauser work narrowing at the rear, but there was the longer grip . You know what I did next. The narrowest width at the rear of the bow is .354 as I do them, and yes there is a lot more that went into it than just looks. My rule is overcome the mechanical problems first and secure the best utility of purpose, then and ONLY then, do what you can to "Make it Pretty". Oddly enough solving the first 2 items generally leaves you a lot more prettyfying room. It comes down to grip distance on the stock , length of pull, a straight line contact with the trigger where it is most comfortable for that movement and the rest of the problems are solved.
Hey, thanks for asking, and no it wasn't a dumb question.

Mr. Burgess,

I can only echo many adjectives already used. The big deal to me is to just say thanks for taking so much time to detail in writing the rifle as a whole. I'm very glad you have taken the time to contribute here.

Many Thanks

HBH

After looking at the pictures closely again and re-reading your description, I think I understand the trigger placement. You are right in that it is very shotgun like, even though it is not as noticeable due to the magazine box. With this hand/trigger layout, I suspect trigger bow width is not as critical. I have found recently on two different rifles I am building that, with a more conventional closed pistol grip, significant narrowing of the trigger guard did completely eliminate banging of the second finger. It was a matter of being able to adjust the grip while reaching the trigger.

Again, that's one super looking rifle.

Good grief, I didn't know you could do that with an enfield. Gorgeous.
Doug

Thomas, as always beautiful work. A piece of art! Thank you for sharing. - Dan

No one has used the adjective "perfect" yet so I will. If I missed it I'm sorry but what does the rifle weigh?

Rich Elliott

Not much left to say that hasn't already been said...

I also picked up on that trigger placement as that is very important to me, it not only works there but it looks good and that is a requirement.

That really is an incredible example of excellence in the gunmaker's art. Congrats to the two gentlemen who had a hand in it, and to the lucky owner.

Todd

T& J Rigby, more. Barrel length is 24" as have been most I have cranked out. The occasional 22" lengths go to the Pro's for back up rifles ,mostly to Alaska.
When I got to swing the rifle up to see how it applied to me for shooting, it seemed to weigh without scope or sling about the same as my M-1 Natnl Match bullet launcher(with sling). That was a fair call. A DGR or for that matter any hunting rifle ought to balance in such a way that you never make those continual arm and wrist straining adjustments during the carry, but more importantly from the carry to the business position. Those little unconscious,continual adjustments wear on you and tend to harm your concentration. In match shooting the expression was, " Did you remember to feed the monkey on your back"? Generally voiced when your face said that you had blown at least 2 out and you awaited the target coming back up marked to read and weep.
Shooters having a rifle which for their carry is not in balance, be it butt or muzzle heavy, will inevitably tell you that your rifle is at least a pound lighter than you damned well know it to be. So,....My face must said,"Damned if we didn't get that right", when I swung it up into firing position.

weights; empty magazine no carry sling attached.

No scope, 9 lbs. 14 oz.
With L& S-3X 10 lbs. 11 oz.

Owner brought me some immediately after action pictures- framed - from his Safari with the rifle and it is obvious that he followed our admonition to utilise all available time to familiarize himself with the rifle and to use it as a tool extension of his very person.

I'd Like to thank the owner for getting the pictures posted-He was intending to post anyway- but I suggested the Gunsmithing forum, and to all of you who have said such nice things about my and Jerry Fishers efforts, Many thanks! Jerry isn't into computers and will have to get the comments 2nd hand, but I'm sure someone has already mailed him printouts.

Mr. Burgess: Jerry told me he still turns out about a dozen rifles per year. Are you still at it full time?

I don't think I can add much to the comments that have been made about the rifle. It is obviously beautiful and well layed out.

Where did the recoil pad come from? I like the color and thickness. Any idea?

Thanks,
Bob

Ditto all of the above comments. That rifle has it all and couldn't be in a better cartridge IMHO. The pop up peep sight as well as the front sight is excellent.

I'm interested in pad and also any comments about the follower and spring.

Thanks,
Terry

I wish you guys would stop posting on this thread...

If I see a new post, I just HAVE to take a look, and as a result I'm repeatedly drooling all over my keyboard!

NIIIIIIIIICE!

jpb

That looks like a 1" red Pachmayr Old English recoil pad to me. You can now get a medium-size 1" Old English Decelerator pad in red from Pachmayr. I just purchased five of these pads, and they are identical to what you see on this .416.

There are a couple of other red pads available that are similar, but they're too hard and generally not as good as Pachmayr's.

AD

That Rifle is SO BEAUTIFUL!!!!
Has she got a name yet? (All my guns have names.)
I hope you will keep us informed of her exploits and adventuers.

US or UK craftsmen "better"?

Things like that gun go way beyond such petty arguments.