Answering one of one thousand questions from Lorenzo, here it goes. I apologize for not being able to translate it into good English, my knowledge of that language is quite limited and I´m busy with my hunters and not full of baby´s bottles and diapers, thus I can´t follow discussions very much...
Anyway, in the Outfitters Forum I posted a picture of a red stag´s head scoring 225.90 C.I.C. points, which you may visit if so desire, under the title "Monster Argentine red stags".
Perhaps Lorenzo could ask more from his outfitter, my good friend Eugenio Lutz. After all, we outfitters adore nice, juicy, naive, wealthy foreigners who visit once a year and return instantly "experts" in Argentine hunting.

MEASUREMENTS

1. Longitud de las cuernas
Medida siguiendo la curvatura exterior desde el borde inferior externo de la roseta hasta el extremo de la punta de la corona que da la mayor longitud total. La cinta metrica se oprimirá contra la cuerna a 3-4 cm. de la roseta y en la medición se procurará, en lo posible, no variar de dirección.

2. Longitud de las luchaderas
Medida por la cara anteroinferior, desde la unión con la roseta hasta el extremo.

3. Longitud de las puntas centrales
Medida por la cara anteroinferior, desde la bisectriz que divide el ángulo formado por este candil con la cuerna hasta el extremo de la punta central. Si la punta central se divide en una horquilla, se mide hasta la punta más larga.

4. Perámetro de las rosetas
Medido en la sección más gruesa de las mismas, salvando con la cinta métrica las rugosidades.

5-6-7 y 8. Perímetro de las cuernas
Medido en la sección más delgada de los tramos indicados, sin consideración a otras posibles puntas existentes
.
9. Peso de las cuernas
Se toma el peso en kilogramos, con apreciación hasta 10 g. de las cuernas y el cráneo exento de toda materia extraña.
- Con el cráneo completo y sin mandíbula inferior, se deducirán 0,70 kgr. del peso total.
- Con el cráneo serrado de modo que falte la dentadura superior, se deducirán 0,50 kgr. del peso total.
- Con el cráneo serrado, presentando únicamente el frontal, no se deducirá nada del peso total.
- Con el cráneo serrado de modo que presente los pivotes y muy poco más de hueso, se añadirán de 0.15 a 0,20 kgr. del peso total.

10. Envergadura
La máxima separación interior entre las cuernas:
- Si es inferior al 60 % del promedio de la longitud de las cuernas........... 0
- Del 60 al 70 %............................................................................ 1
- Del 70 al 80 %............................................................................ 2
- Superior al 80 %......................................................................... 3

11. Número de puntas
Para considerarse como punta tiene que medir al menos dos centímetros por la parte más corta. Cada candil se valora con un punto.

Color
- Gris claro, amarillento o teñido artificialmente------------------------- 0 Pts
- Gris a marrón------------------------------------------------------- 1 Pts
- Marrón oscuro a negro---------------------------------------------- 2 Pts

Perlas
- Superficie de las cuernas lisa----------------------------------------- 0 Pts
- Superficie de las cuernas ligeramente perladas------------------------ 1 Pts
- Superficie de las cuernas bien perladas------------------------------- 2 Pts

Puntas
- Porosas o romas----------------------------------------------------- 0 Pts
- Puntiagudas y oscuras----------------------------------------------- 1 Pts
- Puntiagudas y blancas----------------------------------------------- 2 Pts

Segundas luchaderas (Se valora cada una por separado)
- Corta (de 2 a 10 cm.)------------------------------------------------ 0 Pts
- Mediana (de 10,1 a 15 cm.)------------------------------------------ 0,5 Pts
- Larga (más de 15 cm.)----------------------------------------------- 1 Pts

Corona (Forman parte de la corona todas las puntas que haya por encima de la punta central, y se miden por la parte más corta, desde la bisectriz con la cuerna.
- Puntas cortas------------------------------------------------------ de 2 a 10 cm.
- Puntas medianas------------------------------------------------- de 10,1 a 15 cm.
- Puntas largas----------------------------------------------------- más de 15 cm.

Número de puntas entre ambas cuernas.
- De 5 a 7, cortas----------------------------------------------------- 1 a 2 Pts
- De 5 a 7, medias---------------------------------------------------- 3 a 4 Pts
- De 5 a 7, largas----------------------------------------------------- 4 a 5 Pts
- De 8 a 9, cortas----------------------------------------------------- 4 a 5 Pts
- De 8 a 9, medias---------------------------------------------------- 5 a 6 Pts
- De 8 a 9, largas----------------------------------------------------- 6 a 7 Pts
- 10 o más, cortas---------------------------------------------------- 6 a 7 Pts
- 10 o más, medias---------------------------------------------------- 7 a 8 Pts
- 10 o más, largas----------------------------------------------------- 9 a 10 Pts

Ok, now we all understand.....

quote:

Originally posted by Carlos Alberto Macias:
After all, we outfitters adore nice, juicy, naive, wealthy foreigners who visit once a year and return instantly "experts" in Argentine hunting.

Never kick a wasp nest when you don't know what kind of wasp you are messing with...

I have been hunting, fishing and doing business in your country during the last 20 years.

I even spent a couple of days per week each month during several years in your country.

This has gave me a good backround of the hunting business in your country, and I have learn a lot about many argentinian outfitters, and when I don't know, I know where to ask.

L

Ladies and gentlemen:
AR Productions proudly presents a Battle Royale.
for the heavyweight world title of South American Hunting amateur-pro hunter and best connoiseur will fight a 12 round-bout:
In the blue corner: the undefeated guru, knows everything of every place, Lorenzo "the wasp", who weighed...too much, and in the red corner: the new poster, the scout of unexpected areas, the seasoned pro Carlos "the nest´s kicker", who weighed...also too much.

TALE OF THE TAPE

LORENZO CARLOS
W37/KO29/D8 (*) W35/KO29/L2/D/4
17st 8 1/2 lbs WEIGHT 16st 12 lbs
Who knows? DATE OF BIRTH Ages ago
6 ft 4 ins HEIGHT 6 ft
84 ins REACH 84 ins
44 ins CHEST (NORMAL) 44 ins
46 ins CHEST (EXPANDED) 44 ins
17 ins BICEPS 17 ins
15 ins FOREARMS 15 ins
34 ins WAIST 34 ins
26 ins THIGH 27 ins
18 ins CALF 17 ins
18 1/2 ins NECK 17 ins
8 ins WRIST 8 ins
12 ins FIST 13 ins

(*) If he doesn´t win, he settles for a draw.

The time for announcements has concluded, the bell has ringed...¡Box!

Tú también Brutus ???


No fight here, Carlos and I have a good friend in common. I was just showing my paws and fangs just in case...

When dealing with argentinians is always better to shoot them first and ask about their intentions later

L

Correction !!! Lorenzo, when You are dealing with "Buenos Aires Province people", always shoot first, then shoot again to avoid that they resucitate, and be sure that they are dead, only few exceptions are worthwhile, specially in the hunting sport. Our worse politics, delinquents, corrupted people, misery, come from that poisonous snake´s nest. Otherwise ask about the National taxes distribution in each province in a supossed "Federal goverment". The Capital and Conourbano are like a big tumour for the rest of our loved country. As one Guy said, The porteños are Alien from the outter space.
More, via PM, about genetic breeded CIC AND SCI gold trophys bought in Bs As in Breeders Farms, like San Pedro of Mr. SRUR and others.... later released in La Pampa province, in fenced ranchs to make money from honest foreing hunters.
A proud Cordobes Hunter:
Guille.

On the subject of scoring a red stag....
I offer what all communicating here have forgotten. The most important first step.
Whether it be SCI, CIC, Growling Ward, Pope and Viejo, or other such ego enhancing publications.

The most important factor - Ahah, the most critical factor, bar none.....in Spanish, Porteno, or English is..drum roll..... ..


Killing one first!!!!!!!

Guillermo,

You went further than I

I will just use my spare time between milk bottles and diapers in better things than arguying with someone I don't even know.

See you here Guille..

L

"Et tu, Brute?" (Pronounced and occasionally spelled "Et tu, Bruté?") ("You too, Brutus?", or "And you, Brutus?" or "Even you, Brutus?") is a Latin phrase often used poetically to represent the last words of Roman dictator Julius Caesar. Immortalised by Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, the quotation is widely used in Western culture as an epitome of betrayal.
Context

On March 15 (the Ides of March), 44 BC, Caesar was attacked by a group of senators, including Marcus Junius Brutus, Caesar's close friend. Caesar initially resisted his attackers, but when he saw Brutus, he supposedly spoke those words and resigned himself to his fate.

Caesar's last words are not known with certainty and are a contested subject among scholars and historians alike. The version best known in the English-speaking world is the Latin phrase Et tu, Brute?, which derives from William Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, where it actually forms the first half of a macaronic line: "Et tu, Brute? Then fall, Caesar." Shakespeare in turn was making use of a phrase already in common use in his time: it appears, for example, in Richard Eedes' Latin play Caesar Interfectus of 1582 and The True Tragedie of Richarde Duke of Yorke &c of 1595, a source work for Henry VI, Part 3.[1] Shakespeare's version evidently follows in the tradition of the Roman historian Suetonius, who reports that others have claimed Caesar's last words were the Greek phrase "καὶ σὺ τέκνον;"[2] (transliterated as "Kai su, teknon?": "You too, my child?" in English or "Tu quoque, Brute, fili mi" in Latin) - though he himself claims Caesar said nothing as he died.[3] Plutarch also reports that Caesar said nothing and merely pulled his toga over his head when he saw Brutus among the conspirators.[4]

In some other languages, the best-known version of Caesar's last words is a more literal Latin translation of the Greek phrase reported by Suetonius: tu quoque, fili mi? ("You also, my son?"). This version is reported, for example, in Charles François Lhomond's De Viris Illustribus,[5] an 18th century summary of Roman history, which was long used as a standard text by Latin students.

Interpretation

While the words are usually understood as an expression of shock and betrayal towards Brutus, it has recently been argued that the phrase was instead uttered as a curse and threat.[6][7][8] One theory states Caesar adapted the words of a Greek sentence which to the Romans had long since become proverbial.[6] The complete phrase is said to have been "You too my son, will have a taste of power," of which Caesar only needed to invoke the opening words to foreshadow Brutus' own violent death, in response to his assassination.[6] In a similar vein, Caesar's words have been interpreted to mean "Your turn next."[8]
Notes

1. ^ Dyce, Alexander; (quoting Malone) (1866). The Works of William Shakespeare. London: Chapman and Hall. p. 648.
2. ^ Suetonius, The Lives of Twelve Caesars, Life of Julius Caesar 82.2
3. ^ Suetonius, The Lives of Twelve Caesars, Life of Julius Caesar, translation by JC Rolfe
4. ^ Plutarch, The Parallel Lives, Life of Caesar 66.9
5. ^ Lhomond De Viris Illustribus, Caius Julius Caesar
6. ^ a b c Arnaud, P. (1998). ""Toi aussi, mon fils, tu mangeras ta part de notre pouvoir" –Brutus le Tyran?". Latomus 57: 61–71.
7. ^ Woodman, A.J. (2006). "Tiberius and the Taste of Power: The Year 33 in Tacitus". Classical Quarterly 56 (1): 175–189. doi:10.1017/S0009838806000140.
8. ^ a b Henderson, John (1998). Fighting for Rome: Poets and Caesars, History, and Civil War. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-58026-9

¡Tomen pa´ustedes, pirañas de inodoro!

WWWAAAWWW!!!!
Impressive!!!!
You can learn alot here.

Un cacho de cultura.
Thanks
Martin

quote:

Correction !!! Lorenzo, when You are dealing with "Buenos Aires Province people", always shoot first, then shoot again to avoid that they resucitate, and be sure that they are dead, only few exceptions are worthwhile, specially in the hunting sport. Our worse politics, delinquents, corrupted people, misery, come from that poisonous snake´s nest. Otherwise ask about the National taxes distribution in each province in a supossed "Federal goverment". The Capital and Conourbano are like a big tumour for the rest of our loved country. As one Guy said, The porteños are Alien from the outter space.
More, via PM, about genetic breeded CIC AND SCI gold trophys bought in Bs As in Breeders Farms, like San Pedro of Mr. SRUR and others.... later released in La Pampa province, in fenced ranchs to make money from honest foreing hunters.
A proud Cordobes Hunter:
Guille.

Just to clarify some things:
The first rate red stags bought at San Pedro and Algar, are directed to the best hunting ranches in the country, in order to improve blood lines and, of course, if some wealthy and unethical visitor wants one....canned hunting takes place.
Who are the biggest buyers?. Surprise, surprise, they are located in Provinces where never have been red stags before. I´ll let you guess....yes, you are right: Córdoba for instance. 88 miles away from the Provincial Capital there is a hunting lodge offering stags scoring 350/400 S.C.I. points and more. They have invested more than a couple of shirts in the premises and what not.
And this in the same Province which has given the country such Greek gifts as Miguel Juarez Celman, Fernando de la Rua, Domingo Felipe Cavallo and Santiago Montoya, just to name a few.

quote:

¡Tomen pa´ustedes, pirañas de inodoro!

I cannot translate this accurately. Por favor?

This is getting interesting and most informative. What is needed now is Florencio Molina Campos to illustrate this dialogue and exchange.....et tu Gaucho?

Uruguayans against Porteños???
The real picture name is : "Yo soy del quinto" Florencio Molina Campos.

To Guillermo Amestoy: congrats. At last one of us shows the work of the master Molina Campos, for my money the best painter of gauchos.

To Bill: I took that line from a politician, who said that of a former Governor of Cordoba. Perhaps you remember that tiger resembling fish of the Amazonas (and some of our rivers), the piranha (in Portuguese). Well, imagine a few in your john...ouch.

Ricardo You have a PM. Thanks, Guille.

quote:

Originally posted by Guillermo Amestoy:
Uruguayans against Porteños???
The real picture name is : "Yo soy del quinto" Florencio Molina Campos.

Guille, you know I love that man....I need to find one of these....the man on the horse is a gaucho farmer....the soldier is Nestor Kirchner.....

quote:

Originally posted by nainital:
To Guillermo Amestoy: congrats. At last one of us shows the work of the master Molina Campos, for my money the best painter of gauchos.

To Bill: I took that line from a politician, who said that of a former Governor of Cordoba. Perhaps you remember that tiger resembling fish of the Amazonas (and some of our rivers), the piranha (in Portuguese). Well, imagine a few in your john...ouch.