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A lucky hunter from Paraguay got this monster the past March. The red stag scored in the high 400´s in SCI´s scale. IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/nainital/algar3781.jpg[/IMG] | ||
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No picture !!! L | |||
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I see from the address that it's from Algar.. It was taken inside or outside ?? L | |||
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Lorenzo: frankly, I don´t know. But I guess that it was shot inside. Such a trophy means many dollars | |||
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Wowwwww That trophy wasn't shot inside the fence...it was shot inside the bathroom !!!! L | |||
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Or inside the lab .... Those kiwi genetics drive me crazy I much prefer those old argentinian trophies from the past..antlers with fewer tines but thick as a leg !! L | |||
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I agree with you !!!, free animals or just BBQ and friends, not private zoo huntings!!! "Every ignored reallity prepares its revenge!" | |||
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And I also agree with you, amigos. Not for sure, but such heads smell of canned stags...or a guy who needs double seats in the planes | |||
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They smell the same up here. I agree completely. Gene Semper Fi WE BAND OF BUBBAS STC Hunting Club | |||
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Double wow! I much prefer free range critters, and will only hunt that way, but there is no taking away from this beautiful stag. "When you play, play hard; when you work, don't play at all." Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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ALGAR is offering Capivara hunt in the Patagonia..... and canned David Fathers Stag from U$ 10.000 "Every ignored reallity prepares its revenge!" | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Guillermo Amestoy: ALGAR is offering Capivara hunt in the Patagonia..... /QUOTE] You must be kidding... Meaybe they have to take away a wool blanket from them before you can shoot them L | |||
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Algar has very nice deers, sadly most of them too much accustomed not only to human presence but worst of it, accustomed to be fed daily by humans ... the immediate consequence of this is when one of these super - genetically - improved deers sees a human, he most likely won't feel any danger and will surely keep still, waiting for his daily rations not even imaging he is in great danger ... one of the greatest pleasure hunt provides me is the satisfaction in winning to the animals infinitely better senses, all applied at their most in a confrontation of death or live, something a domesticated animal won't do Thou I understand these practices to be one side of the same coin (hunting as an investment), IMHO this is long away from what I understand hunt to be, just merely killing ... sadly open wild areas are more and more difficult to find , and the mediate future of our sport is likely to be Algar's present attitude... the result not being an immediate and direct consequence of our own effort applied, but in fact of how much money we will like to expend - and how fast we will like to have that result obtained, not really matter how A very nice deer ... thou I much prefer any wild, thick ten points - hunted, really hunted, in open wild spaces ------------------------------------------ Μολὼν λάβε Duc, sequere, aut de via decede. | |||
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That's a big deer | |||
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It's a different story outside the fence! Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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You are correct. Outside it's a completely different story L | |||
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I have hunted at Algar and the folks that run it are a class act. Liliani, Alfred (I think) and Tommy the Ranch Manager. They are wondefully people. They also distinctly know the difference between an estate hunt (10,000 acre fenced) and a free range hunt (40,000 acre). They recognize that some of their clients prefer estate hunts and others prefer free range hunts and they record their trophies appropriately. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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10,000 acres, fence or not, seems like a pretty good size area...depending on cover etc DB Bill aka Bill George | |||
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So South Africa is not the only country struggling with canned animals. That is no good news at all. Frederik Cocquyt I always try to use enough gun but then sometimes a brainshot works just as good. | |||
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Safari-Hunt, I think there is a little difference here. This operation has two distinct areas 1) 10,000 acres of high fence. Animals taken in the high fence are clearly designated as Estate trophies. 2) 40,000 acres of free range. While I was there, I actually saw a client get upset with the staff because the client was trying to get the designation of his trophy changed and the staff refused. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike, Sorry if it was shot on 10 000 acres then yes no problem I just read the text below by Lorenzo and thought it was a small area.
Frederik Cocquyt I always try to use enough gun but then sometimes a brainshot works just as good. | |||
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Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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At risk of appearing rude - there are no "kiwi" genetics. New Zealand has no - none , not any - native land mammals , with the exception of a bat or two which dont really fit in this discussion. All our deer genetics come from elsewhere offshore. Sure , we have mingled that genepool somewhat and factory-farm produced those ugly things they sell to rich tourist/hunters to shoot out of vehicles in enclosured areas. Its called supply-and-demand , and I dont have an issue with it as long as it is reported as being a canned hunt for a farmed deer. But mostly the "trophies" are taken home and touted as being free-range and wild, and thats were it all falls down cos the likes of international hunting organisations recognize these farmed trophies as being genuine wild animals. Me - I wouldnt have one on my wall if you gave it to me . Give me a scruffy ten pointer out of a crappy mountain gully anyday - but dont slag Kiwi genetics cos the genes are English or Hungarian or Scottish or Roumanian... Good discussion all the same - just thought I would add my 2 cents worth and see what eventuates ________________________ Old enough to know better | |||
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Muzza, You are not rude at all !! Also there are not any argentinian genetics as argentinians deers came from Europe also. We talk about "kiwi genetics" because some argentinians farmers imported some BIG stags from NZ to released them on their fenced properties. These "new" deers, look all very similar with HUGE antlers and infinite numbers of tins and also with some tins pointing down... If you google "New Zeland red stags" you will see many deers similar to the monster posted here. Normally, the ole argentinians red stags where very thick and not necessary with many tins (10, 11, 12, 13, 14)as the one from the picture, and I never saw "pointing down" tins in old argentinians trophies or hunting pictures. Because of these is that down here we refer about this type of deer as a "kiwi deer". I bet you that the deer posted was born in NZ or is a deer born from an insemination using NZ semen. We know that NZ is a fantastic hunting destination with many free range animals Cheers lorenzo | |||
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I have hunted in NZ and have seen some of the red stag operations there. It is not my "cup of tea." And even if I could afford it, which I cannnot, I would still rather hunt free range and hunt in several different locations than to spend such enormous amounts of money for one "canned" animal. But that is a matter of preference. There are those who hunt to have hunted, and those who hunt to have killed. SCI has taken action to properly classify those trophies by separating in the record books those animals taken free range and those taken on "estates." A move in the right direction. And for all that, my amigo, Rambo del Sur of Argentina, has promised me a giant free range stag this coming season, along with a beautiful Argentine consort to keep me calm, a fine asado, the best of Argentine wine, a four wheel drive limousine to and from the ranch, and a week to recover from all that exertion at a beach house near Piriapolis on the Uruguayan coast. Shhhhhh...this is a secret. "When you play, play hard; when you work, don't play at all." Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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The "kiwi" genetics is an interesting point. Muzza, I'm with you and I'm not. 'I believe like Argentian ,New Zealands stag are of the same original origin, ie England and Scotland. What the NZ deer farming industry has develped by way of improved imported genetics from the top European stags is well know. I would be inclined to proudly say whoa what great science and farming. But after that I'm 100% with Muzza, its an illusion to hunt such a stag and call it wild. I'm sticking to my 10-16point 40 x 40 inch animals thanks. Now we wait for Tahr to appaer in Argentina, thats a whole different deal about New Zealand selling its commercial hunting sole. | |||
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The breeding stags at Algar are indeed imported from NZ. They offer inside the fence hunts as well as outside as Mike Dettore stated. The hunting outside the fence as I did a few years ago on horseback during the roar was one of the best hunts I have ever done and I will do it again. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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