Ok here I go. It is possible, or incredibly stupid to substitute a different size pellet load in a factory shell? To make a long story short, I want to shoot a neat little 20 ga combo gun I picked up, but my state doesn't allow buckshot any smaller than 00. As long as I substitute like weight, could I empty out the 3 buck that comes in factory loads and replace with 00? I know it probably won't shoot awesome patterns or anything , but as long as I can get 3 or 4 on target from 20 yds. I'd be happy. I already tried the custom shops, and they said they wouldn't load it because it isn't most effective. I know that, but am trying to hedge. All opinions requested and appreciated.
thanks
Rick

Sorry, Rick! But 00 Buck doesn't work out in the 20 gauge.

#1 Buck (.30") and #2 Buck (.27") work great in the 20ga. Both are bigger than #3 Buck (.25") but 00 Buck is .33".

With a very few exceptions, it's generally a bad idea to try to replace a factory loaded cartridge with different projectiles.

Try it and see.

I don't think you will be doing anything dangerous by replacing one buckshot load with different sized buckshot -- assuming that the total weight (mass) of the shot pellets of new load will not be greater than that of the original load.

But, given the considerably larger size of 00 buck, you may have trouble getting many pellets into the 20 gauge hull.

In the past it was not uncommon for rifle ammunition when it was scarce or hard to come by, or sporting loads were considerably more expensive than military surplus ones, for people to pull FMJ bullets from military loads and replace the bullet with a softpoint one of equal (or slightly less) weight for hunting purposes.

quote:

Originally posted by LE270:
Try it and see.

I don't think you will be doing anything dangerous by replacing one buckshot load with different sized buckshot -- assuming that the total weight (mass) of the shot pellets of new load will not be greater than that of the original load.

But, given the considerably larger size of 00 buck, you may have trouble getting many pellets into the 20 gauge hull.

Doc Eby, this is a very bad recommendation. The poor guy is going to get about five #00 Buck pellets stacked in a cluster fug that will produce terrible results.

Shame on you, Doc for bringing your grudge against me into the "technical" threads!

quote:

Originally posted by LE270: In the past it was not uncommon for rifle ammunition when it was scarce or hard to come by, or sporting loads were considerably more expensive than military surplus ones, for people to pull FMJ bullets from military loads and replace the bullet with a softpoint one of equal (or slightly less) weight for hunting purposes.

Like I said, Doc.....

quote:

With a very few exceptions, it's generally a bad idea to try to replace a factory loaded cartridge with different projectiles.

Many military rifle cartridges were pulled and reloaded with slightly lighter match bullets. This process was known as "Mexican Match".

But it doesn't work with buckshot!

I'd try some of these. Note: I haven't tried them, nor do I know anyone who has, I don't like 20 ga. and try not to use them, ever.

20 Ga 00 buckshot

So, if I were to roll my own, and use #1 buck ( which may fool the local authorities since it is lot closer to 00) I could possibly make something that may be effective? I was figuring on trying a 3 inch hull with a 2 3/4 inch payload to have more room for stacking? Just looking for a way to carry a neat gun and not be asking for it. Or blowing myself up in the process.
thanks guys
Rick

What do you mean by effective? To find out, just load some and pattern them to see. There is no safety issue in loading 00, it just doesn't work well, but 20 yards is not far and it might work to that range. The question is, if the buck is 40 yards, are you NOT going to shoot, knowing the result will almost certainly be a lost and wounded deer.

The reason that the 20 is not commonly loaded in 1 and 00 buck is that they won't layer correctly so the setback forces tend to deform them more as well as any possible choke deformation issues. More deformation means they won't pattern as well, so the effective range will be shorter.

Think about it, you can shoot a slug, (which is probably what you should use if you're hunting deer anyway), which can weigh up to 1 ounce in a 3 inch 20, call it the standard 5/8 to 3/4 ounce in a 2 3/4 inch hull, so what would be the problem with shooting 00 buck instead? Each 00 weighs in round numbers 3.5 grams, so 6 of them would weigh 21 grams or about 3/4 of an ounce, a standard 20 ga target load. I wouldn't try to maximum load them but as far as safety is concerned, I think it would be a non-issue if the loader users his head and follows a standard reloading guide for the same wt of smaller buck.

PS: Why not follow the law and not hunt with smaller than allowed buckshot or go to slugs which are more effective?

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

The reason that the 20 is not commonly loaded in 1 and 00 buck is that they won't layer correctly .......

You're correct about 00 Buck not layering correctly in the 20 ga., BUT #1 stacks perfectly in layers of 2 (like 000 Buck in the 12 ga.).

#2 and #3 Buck just work out more efficiently in the 20 ga. hull.



00 Buck "stacks" in a really fugged up pattern in the 20 gauge hull. Sorry about the poor photo (showing 8 pellets of 00 Buck in a 20 ga. hull). But you can see clearly how these 00 Buck pellets refuse to orient themselves in rows that are 90 degrees from the previous row.



The second pellet you put in the hull rides higher and resting on the first pellet. This continues up the entire hull and you can't get the rows arranged 90 degrees from each other. They all want to line up the length of the hull.

Foxhound, I agree with Gato...... get some of these slugs and quit screwing around trying to make "legal" 20 ga. buckshot loads for game in your state.

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:
Sorry, Rick! But 00 Buck doesn't work out in the 20 gauge.

#1 Buck (.30") and #2 Buck (.27") work great in the 20ga. Both are bigger than #3 Buck (.25") but 00 Buck is .33".

With a very few exceptions, it's generally a bad idea to try to replace a factory loaded cartridge with different projectiles.

Totally wrong info from an non shooter.

With shot shells, you can substitute different pellets as long as the weight of the load is not increased and the pellets stay on the cup/ wad and do not protrude higher. Do your best to mimic the factory crimp.

I have disected previously reloaded shells (when I was much more poor) to change shot size.

When you look at reloading data for shot shells, they do not specify the size of shot, only the powder charge, wad, and load to be used.

quote:

Originally posted by The Shottist:
Totally wrong info from an non shooter.

With shot shells, you can substitute different pellets as long as the weight of the load is not increased and the pellets stay on the cup/ wad and do not protrude higher. Do your best to mimic the factory crimp.

I have disected previously reloaded shells (when I was much more poor) to change shot size.

When you look at reloading data for shot shells, they do not specify the size of shot, only the powder charge, wad, and load to be used.

We're not talking "birdshot", moron! We're talking BUCKSHOT!

Do the reloading manuals have separate sections for buckshot and birdshot loads? Why, yes! they DO ..... don't they?!!!!! AND FOR A REASON!

How much buck shot have you ever reloaded, Sheetlist?!!!

I can guarantee you, that I've done a hell of a lot more work with buckshot than you ever will.

How would YOU stack 00 Buckshot in a 20 ga. hull, Sheetlist?!!!

Please, DO TELL!

PS - If you don't know what you're talking about and just trying to stir the sheet...... then just STFU, Sheetlist!

Gator
I certainly am not dumb enough to argue with your logic, which is 100%. The point, however, is that if I wanted to shoot slugs, i would out of one of the many 12 ga. guns I own and have used to shoot slugs. Most of the shooting where I go is close and very quick, buckshot can and has been very effective for me (although I know many who would disagree with its use). But there is the outside chance of a good long rifle shot, ie the desire to use my little combo. I have a beautiful drilling, but since a problem with neck discs and nerve damage, I really need to carry something nice and light. So, for my style of hunting etc. this is a compromise I am willing to experiment with, besides the fact it has a neat old time wildcat rifle barrel I am having a blast making up shells and loads for. So this is partially a fun experiment to me. I'll probably diddle with the funky loads of heavy buck and come to the obvious conclusions all that know better have proven will happen, but such experimenting keeps me sane during the long cold winter. Thanks for the input from all; I am learning a lot here and now really have feel for the stacking issues I didn't before (great pics DaMan, thanks for taking the time). I think I may put out a couple bucks for the custom loads you sent me the link to Gatorgado. May convince me fast to forget jousting with windmills, and accept the obvious. But what fun is that??!!
Rick

quote:

Originally posted by foxhound:
I think I may put out a couple bucks for the custom loads you sent me the link to Gatorgado. May convince me fast to forget jousting with windmills, and accept the obvious. But what fun is that??!!
Rick

If you buy those shells made by Paraklese Technologies, llc, do me a big favor for the sake of research and cut one of them open to mic a pellet and weigh it.

I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that they'll measure .320" and weigh 48.3 grains (vs. .330" and 53.8 grains like most 00 Buck)!

I believe Paraklese has a tendency to exagerate the size of their pellets.

They also have a 12 ga. load which they claim is a 0000 Buck (.375"). I'm sure that it's a 000 Buck load (.360").

In any case, you are covered. You bought ammo from a commercial manufacture marked 00 Buck...... and that's what the law requires!

Keep it close (under 25 yards) and those 8 pellet Paraklese should do the job.

Not what I'd pick..... but they'll work.

Good luck!