Gents: I purchased these from the local shooting emporium.



I want to reload my 12 gauge for a start in shotshell reloading. I have the Lyman book, AA shells, 7.5 shot, Clays Int'l powder along with some Unique. Can someone help me along here about what is the recipe? I don't know how these pink wads fit into the grand scheme of wads, as in, what do they replace? Or what do they substitute for?

Many thanks,

Tim

Tim,

First thing you should do, go to the Lyman Shotshell book, and find the section on wads. They list different manufacturers and wad types under their brand.

Find the wad that you have. It says on the bag that the Claybusters wad replaces the 12S3. If the Lyman book doesn't have a Claybuster wads listed as their tested components, then find the brand that manufactures the 12S3 wad. Read the information about that particular wad.

Do the same for the powders you are using, and the shell cases.

Next, go to the section with the load data for the type of shell you are reloading.... Hint, the Win AA shell is considered a compression formed shell... and look to see what loads are using the powder, wad, and shot combination you desire to load.

Now, a friendly suggestion... don't go out and buy powder and wads, hoping to find a load using those components.

Instead, Find a load listed in the book, and buy components to match the load. That way you are not spending money on stuff you won't be able to use.

Read all the reloading information in the Lyman book, and a large number of your questions will be answered!!

And feel free to post here with questions, too.

Ok great info. I found one load on page 173 that mixes AA hulls (compression formed, this piece of information was KEY), International powder, and Winchester 209 primers. I am in business!

Thanks very much and I will pay attention to loads then buy components, much the opposite of pistol/rifle.

The Clay Busters CB 2118 / Federal 12S3 is a wad best suited for straight walled hulls like the Federal Gold Medal Target or Top Gun hulls, Cheddite, Rio's etc. The over powder cup is larger in diameter than a wad meant for a tapered hull (Rem STS, Gun Club, Win CF-AA or Win AAHS). The best wad choice for the Win AAHS hull IMO is the DownRange DRA series of wads. The AAHS hull has a bit less internal volume than the older CFAA hull and the DRA wads allow for that. For the CFAA's a Win AA12 clone wad will serve you well like the Blue Duster or the CB 1118.

quote:

Originally posted by Scout Master 54:
The Clay Busters CB 2118 / Federal 12S3 is a wad best suited for straight walled hulls like the Federal Gold Medal Target or Top Gun hulls, Cheddite, Rio's etc. The over powder cup is larger in diameter than a wad meant for a tapered hull (Rem STS, Gun Club, Win CF-AA or Win AAHS). The best wad choice for the Win AAHS hull IMO is the DownRange DRA series of wads. The AAHS hull has a bit less internal volume than the older CFAA hull and the DRA wads allow for that. For the CFAA's a Win AA12 clone wad will serve you well like the Blue Duster or the CB 1118.

Now that is some info I was not aware of!! Thanks for the insight, Scout Master 54!

There are numerous loads posted in the manuals and in Lyman’s that are not quite optimal or provide poor fits. Using a poor fitting wad “may” result in an off sounding load due to powder migrating past the base wad. Some wads and load combinations are either too long or a bit too short resulting in an incorrect stack heights which may cause dished crimps or crimps that will not close / crushed hulls. This is quite apparent in the Win AAHS 20 ga hulls where fitting a full ⅞ oz of shot can be problematic with several wads, even though they are listed loads.

Ohier does not tell us what kind of load he is trying to duplicate. With International & Unique powder he is pretty much in the heavy target load category. Use 19.0 – 21.3g of International with the 12S3 clone, 1⅛ oz. shot , Win 209 primer in a Federal Gold Medal hull for a velocity of 1150 – 1250 fps. I do not know if this will serve his needs but I have found 1 oz. or ⅞ oz. loads to work well for most of my clay game and target shooting and stretches that $45 bag of shot.

My go to wads for 12 ga straight walled hulls like Federals, Fiocchi, Rios, Estates etc. are the CB 2118, CB 6118 & CB 3118 AR for 1⅛ oz loads the CB 2100 & CB 6100 for 1 oz. loads.

For the Win AAHS 12 ga the best wad fit I have found is the Down Range DRA12 for 1⅛ oz and the DRA12 Pink for 1 oz. Others work but the DRA wad provides a slightly deeper cup for a good fit.

The 12 ga. one piece Rem hulls (STS, Nitro, Gun Club, Shur Shot, Sport Load etc.) is the best reloading hull out there IMO and numerous wads for tapered hulls work well. I am finding the Down Range DRXL-1 (1 oz.) and the Clear Duster (⅞ oz.) wads with Clay Dot powder to provide excellent crimps and performance in Rem hulls. The Green or Blue Duster, the fig “8” clones, CB 1100 and others work fine too.

There are many wad and powder combo’s out there, putting them together is part of the fun reloading. After you have been at this a while you will have numerous part bags of wads in inventory from trying to find that perfect load. Start putting things together and find the combination that works best for your needs.

Scout your grasp of this concept is fantastic and I thank you for the input. What I have is 1k of the Winchester AA hulls. I want to bust clays in my yard, not necessarily attempting to duplicate any particular load.

What wad would be best to use with AA's and Int'l powder? I am only attempting to load some 12 and 20 gauge loads with MEC's I have been staring at for 5 years.


Thanks so much for responding with your depth of knowledge and helpful attitude.

Best regards,

Tim

Thank you for your kind input. For backyard clays heavy loads are not needed especially if you are introducing children and the ladies to shotgun shooting. I can appreciate that you are trying to use up what you have on hand. You do not say which AA hull you have. Are they the current manufacture shiny plastic, 2 piece hull with AA-HS on the head stamp? Or the older one piece Compression Formed (CF) hull?

Certainly do try the AA hull Lyman load of 19.2g of International, CB 2118 wad, 1⅛ oz of shot, Win 209 primer. It is listed at 1145 fps. I expect it will be a bit dirty as the pressure is on the low side. International is a slow burning powder and is at its best duplicating handicap loads – 3 or 3¼ dram equivalent. I put together this same load on my MEC Sizemaster and as expected I got a slight bulge at the base wad and I wrinkled the hull. It was not enough to prevent it from chambering but was noticeable. If you were to switch to Down Range DRA 1⅛ (WAA12 clone) wad and keep all else the same I know you will have no problem.

If you are willing to drop down to a 1 oz. load pick up some Down Range DRA – 1 oz pink wads (WAA12SL clone) from Recob’s Target Shop on line or other vendor. Try 19g of International, DRA-1oz wad, 1 oz. shot, Win 209 primer for about 1180 fps.

Do check your powder drops with a good scale as bushings seldom drop as indicated in the charts. Once your International powder is used up consider switching to a faster burning powder to gain efficiency like; Clay Dot, Red Dot, Promo, Clays, 700X, Tightwad etc.

Good Luck, if you have questions please feel free to ask as there are a lot of experienced reloaders here to help.

The hulls are one color, red or black, and have AA HS on the headstamp.

quote:

Originally posted by Ohier:
The hulls are one color, red or black, and have AA HS on the headstamp.

I look down the shell, with a light source, to see if the base wad is applied as a separate piece. In the new AA shells, the base wad is a different color from the rest of the hull, and easy to spot.

As Scout Master mentioned, the compression formed hull has no such separation. The base and the hull are all one piece.

I do not have the 5th Edition Lyman book, so I do not know if they are listing the new AA (separate base wad)hulls separately from the old AA (compression formed) hulls.

Scout Master is giving you some great information, as he has used the same components that you mention.... shared experience is priceless!

Win and others post that it is OK to use the same data for both the AAHS & AACF hulls. Anyone who has loaded both will tell you that the AAHS has less internal capacity and is not as forgiving to crimp as the old CFAA. That said the AAHS hull can reload quite nicely and gives decent reloading life, it is just necessary to get the stack height correct for a decent crimp.

I suspect your hulls are red and a dark grey if they have the current AAHS head stamp. Only the very old AA Handicap loads from the early 70's used a black hull. Take a knife and section one to see the internal construction.

You can use the Unique powder to put together some good 20 ga loads and International has some 20 ga data as well.

I ordered Downrange DRA12 from Recobs. I loaded up a box of shells and I think my powder load is too light at 18 gr? Those pink claybuster wads wouldn't work, crimp would not close properly. The dra12 wads are shorter and work better in those AA shells. Being new and excited to get going I mistakenly used the 18 gr recipe for the pink claybusters and didn't read your post Scout about increasing to 19.2-.5 gr. Should I shoot "em or tear 'em up and start over?

Thanks,

Ohier you did not say which DRA wad you obtained, was it the 1 oz. or the 1⅛ oz. version? With International loading 18.0g with 1⅛ oz. of shot the DRA wad and a Win 209 primer you should have a load developing aprox. 1145 fps at 8200 psi. This would duplicate a typical 2¾ dram equiv. target load, similar to those you would pick up at the big box marts. It would be fine for your back yard clays games. You can view the data at the Hodgdon web site. FYI the WAA12 wad = the DRA 1⅛. I would expect no problem shooting them.

If you are loading the DRA 1 oz. version you are about 1g light. You may get some off sounding loads but they will shot. Next reload come up to 19 – 20g of international. FYI the WAA12SL wad = the DRA 1 oz.

I am not surprised you had trouble getting a crimp with the CB 2118. Save those for any Federal hulls you may come across.

I did use the 1.125 wad. And did load those to 18 gr. So I guess I was ok. Funny though with a lighter shot load they call for a heavier powder load. Boy do I have a lot to learn!

Also funny the DRA 1 oz were marked as such but the 1.125 were not marked that way, though they stated on the package as substituting for WAA12.

Thanks again.

I see that this thread is over 6 months old, but http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ is a free wealth of reloading data.