what cases are reloadable and which arnt, iv been told that the ribbed cases(the ones with small grooves down the case) are not reloadable.are there any ribbed cases that can be reloaded?. does that make all non-ribbed cases reloadable or are there a few to stick with and just chuck the rest?eg winAA

sambar1,

The ribs do not mattaer. For example, the Remington Gun Club target ammo is ribbed but the inner part of the case is not and it loads and lasts as well as the STS cases. At least in 20 gauge but I do know people who have the same success with 12 gauge. We also find it on sale here at about $3.30 a box. I have heard he Rio shells are either unloadable or not worth the effort. I am only loading small gauge and then, mainly for skeet shooting. When I need hunting loads that require more than the target load shot amount, I just buy a flat or two.

Almost every hull is reloadable. But some work better than others. It's mostly a problem of getting the proper wad and powder charge for the particular hull, as well as setting up your loading tool so you get a good crimp.

The Hodgdon shotshell manual gives loads for a larger number of different hulls than any other loading manual I know.

The best hulls are one-piece hulls; at least you know that they won't come apart. In current production (at least in the US) are the Remington hulls and the Federal Gold Medal hulls.

Most, if not all, Euro hulls are of the Reifenhauser design (a straight hull with an inserted base-wad in the bottom). These can be ok, or so-so, or terrible. This includes Fiocchi's (purple ones are ok), Rio's etc.

In the middle, also, is the "Federal with paper basewad" hull. Good for a couple of loadings, but don't let them get wet.

A lot of times, the fast rule applies that anything with an 8 point crimp is usually worth looking at. 6 point crimps are almost always throw-aways. HTH, Dutch.

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch:

A lot of times, the fast rule applies that anything with an 8 point crimp is usually worth looking at. 6 point crimps are almost always throw-aways. HTH, Dutch.

I don't necessarily agree with that rule, but I suppose it's OK for a recommendation for a new loader. But it applies only to 12 and 20 gauges. 28 and 410 are always (so far as I know) 6 point.

Also, I do not really like Federal hulls, although I've reloaded and shot many of them, with acceptable results. In my experience they cause more trouble in reloading, in any gauge, than Winchester AA and Remington hulls. In 12 gauge, they have a larger interior space than the Remington and Winchester ones, so they require a different wad -- a wad designed specifically for Federal hulls -- to get the shot column high enough in the shell to get a good crimp.

From years of experience reloading 12g shotshells the best hulls I use are Win AA also used a lot of Rem RXP's.Fed gold medal don't hold a candle to Win AA's .I load some AA's to 1400+fps with 1 1/8oz load of lead shot.Never needed a 3" or 3 1/2 shell my 2 3/4" shells loaded with Win 540 will reach out and touch what I point at 1 1/4 oz of 4's,5's,6's or 7 1/2's at 1330+fps will do the job.

I really like to load the Federal hulls for hunting since I usually use a heavier load than that used for skeet. For skeet, I use the Fed .410 hulls since trying to get a full load into the AA hulls was really a PITA. Used AA hulls for the rest of my competition shooting.

Ribbed vs. non-ribbed isn't enough to go on. Reloading shotgun shells is less forgiving and you have less flexibility than with metallic cartridge reloading. Reloading For Shotgunners, 4th edition, does a good job helping you understand the differences between compression-formed (single piece of plastic with integral base wad, usually with tapered wall up to mouth, less internal space-higher pressure-more efficient-target loads and sometimes hunting loads-examples: AA's and Rem STS's) and polyformed (multi-piece hulls with separate base wads, usually straight-walled, with more internal space for lead and slower burning powders used in hunting and magnum loads).

Reloading recipes call for a specific type of hull. The trick is being able to identify the hull, finding published loading data in one of the booklets put out by Hodgdon, IMR, Winchester, Alliant, etc. This is easy with AA's and Remington STS's, but it's a lot harder with 10 and 16 gauge loads where you have less of the good hulls to pick from. In this case, you have to make sense of the CRYPTIC, often different descriptions of the hulls given in the reloading booklet. You usually need to understand polyformed vs compression formed, straight vs tapered wall, and id the based wad.

EDIT: I specified the 4th edition because I've heard the 5th edition doesn't include this information.

HTH,

Steve

If you can not identify the hull and match it with a proper load in a reloading manual, don't attempt to reload it.

The comment about old and bold reloaders goes here.

Sambar 1, the case/hull, I think you are referring to, is NOT an "OLD STYLE" AA type case. It could be the "NEW STYLE" AA which are gray or red in color (in 12ga.) and have a seperate base wad of matching color.

Winchester also makes the Super-X red 12 ga. or yellow 20 ga. ribbed outer plastic hull with a seperate (white) plastic base wad.

The cases I have seen are marked "Universal" with 8 point crimp and Super-X with six point crimps.

Like this one

A couple of important points here, there are some inaccuracies posted above.

Skivving refers to a taper cut in the hull mouth plastic, 8 point crimps need skivving, 6 points need less. The contoured plastic is ribbed plastic and is beneficial in less surface area in contact with the chamber on extraction, it has nothing to do with the quality of the hull for reloading.

The number of folds in the crimp has nothing to do with the worthiness of a hull for reloading though target loads are often 8 point crimps in 16 and 12 gauge, yet all AA style 16ga hulls were 8 point regardless of what shot size was in them.

One piece hulls are as follows: Old AA, RemSTS/Premier and SP hulls and NEW Gold Medals from Federal in 12 and 20 at least.

New AA-HS, Fiocchi, Cheddite hulls supplied for Rio, Estate, Armausa, Westly Richards, Polywad and the Australian made Winchester super x in 16ga. These are in all cases excepting the Winchester identifiable by stars on the headstamp at 90* positions, Fiocchi, cheap Rems and all non goldmetal Federals.

The single most important factor in the hull is basewad height. Fiocchi's in particular come in differing base wad heights, as do Federals- it's mainly steel loaded hulls vs. led loaded ones in Federal, in Fiocchi there are specific 12ga high base wad target hulls- like the purple one previously mentioned.

Any hull maybe reloaded provided you have the right stuff to make the wad column height correct for a good crimp. A weak or dished in/out crimp is certainty for bad loads. A good crimp has no hole in the center, is flat across the folds and about a nickles width deep.

I have had excellent luck with Fiocchi hulls they average a 12 reload lifespan for me in 16 ga. Cheddite's about the same and the internal volume is near identical with a very slight advantage to the Cheddite. Old AA hulls. The worst hulls for me are Rem SP types and STS types the hull mouths burn and split easily. Promo loading by anybody are in very cheap hulls and not worth reloading though you will get a couple maybe 3 out of them before the mouths split.

Reloading for Shotgunners is an excellent resource as is Lyman's Latest edition. I would Lyman's for all the other things like hull ident and internal/external ballistics info, maximum shotfall, pellet velocities and energies and so on.

Excellent post, Planemech!

I did a little bit more research on the new shotgun hulls and you are correct. I made some corrections to my post above.

quote:

in Fiocchi there are specific 12ga high base wad target hulls- like the purple one previously mentioned.

Do not go rely on case color! The Fiocchi "crushers" are also purple but have a 7mm basewad (vs. the 10.5 mm). The easy way to tell which Fiocchi case you have is by seating a primer. The top of the primer will be about flush in the Fiocchis with the 7mm basewad but they'll be recessed in the Fiocchis with the 10.5 mm basewad.

Indeed DaMan, one of those Fiocchi purple hulls has been discontinued, I believe it is the low basewad version, but do not recall for certain, always pays to check especially with paper basewad Federals- which are very tough hulls and make great hunting loads and Fiocchis, which also make great loads.

Fiocchi hasn't loaded anything in the last 6 years or so with the 10.5 mm basewad (in their Missouri, USA plant, anyway). I have some of them stashed (they are simply fantastic for 3/4 and 7/8th oz ruffed grouse loads!), but they are scarcer than hen's teeth anymore.... FWIW, Dutch.

Sambar1 for the componets we get here in Oz your best bet is to use winchester compression formed cases all the AA loaded rounds are still available in the CF case I do not think we have the new HS cases here yet but I could be wrong the best source of cases is the bins at most ranges also a wanted to buy add on the club notice board could get you some a lot of people have cases but no longer reload same for primers and wads even shot
it seems to me that the Winchester wads are everywhere but finding wads for the Reiffenhaauser cases are hard to find and it gets away from trying to see what basewad heights the case has there are lots of winchester AA cases thrown away every weekend and loading Data for Win cases is everywhere not real easy to find for the others

Use only one piece hulls. Do not use hulls with an inserted(loose) base wad in the bottom. The base wad has been know to come loose after a few loadings and lodge in the barrel. The next shot could burst your barrel. If the hull is not in the reloading manual, dont use the hull.

243, a myth you pass along. Because a hull is of reifenhauser design does not mean it's base wad is loose by default. The base wad is held in buy the shell head or brass, it is literally crimped in place and does not automatically fly out. The paper basewads of some hulls, notably Federal PAPER 12 gauges and Federal 16's can come loose after repeated firings most often if they have gotten wet. To not inspect your hulls before loading is folly, regardless of who made it or how it was made. I have seen plenty of AA .410's throw the tube wall off above the taper too. All hulls require inspection, period.

thanks for your help guys i loaded a bit of everything just to try and half the hulls i was given i chucked in the bin there were a mixture of different stuff mainly win, winner28, ranger,bushman stuff like that. the winner28 and bushman seem to load and shoot ok the rangers never fill right up. shooting starts at the range again next weekend so ill go and have a scroung and see what i can find. does anyone know of any data for win winner 28 hulls? i can get thousands of these!!

The only Winchester 28 ga hull available here is the AA, now AA-HS. If they are using the same source they are for their 16 gauge loads here, made in Australia and built on the Cheddite hull, yes I can get you data on them.

Sambar1 the Winner cases are Reifenhauser if you look in the ADI book you will find data for them

I prefer the old style compression formed AA hulls but refuse to use Winchesters new AA hulls....rather I have moved exclusively to Remington Nitros the gold 12 hulls which are compression formed and are every bit as good as the AA standard used to be.
So today the new standard is Remington compression Nitros. These hulls I use for everything from skeet and trap loads to heavy hunting loads. For simplicity I use the AAs for hunting and the new Remingtons for skeet and trap. I still have over 1500 of the old AAs on hand. About 800 of the new Remingtons on hand and buy factory new for competition usage and reload only for practice or hunting. Although sometimes I use Federal Premiums for late season quail in the Southwest with 7.5 copper plated shot.

I compared the Winchester UNIVERSAL with the old style and new style Winchester AAs.

The old style Winchester AAs have the smallest internal capacity. The new style AAs have just a tad bit more internal capacity. The UNIVERSALs have quite a bit more capacity than the AAs.

I loaded up some 12 ga. test loads using the UNIVERSAL hulls/W209 primers/WAA12 wads/Unique Powder/1 1/8 oz. #9 shot.

I basically used the data for the old Win. "Polyformed" type cases.

I loaded 5 each with 23.0gr./25.0gr./26.5gr. charges.

All crimped nicely with the above components and charges.

I hope to chronograph them soon.