Package from Preciaion Loading came in today. Their buffer, mylar protective sheets, shot covers to keep the beads in. Picked up two bags of Hornady #4 buck, have my recipies for Tom Roster ready to go. Need to weigh out 1 5/8 shot and see how many that is, loading in a 3" Mag. Rem. case, ought to be a fine home defense round.

Worriedman,,Sounds like you're fixing to blast something/someone into the next century! Precision ought to be able to give you some load data if you need,,They have always seemed to be customer oriented,,Clay

I think Rem had a Hevi shot buck shot load out the most likiely is the ultimate.

They have just changed hands, but the new folks seem to be helpful and friendly. They have a working relationship with Tom Roster, he seems to be the guru for this vein of endeavor. I have had several converstaions with them regarding tweaking their recipies, and hope to start pattern testing this weekend. Blue Dot, Longshot and some aged yet hale 571 will be my candidates. Also have in mind some 1 1/2 buffered #6's, (got a few pounds of Lubabloy #6 and #4's from a previous life), that ought to be some bad crow medicine, not to mention flush and gun crat splatters!

Worriedman, 34 x #4 Buck will give you slightly more than 1 5/8 oz. and stacks well with Mylar (7-7-7-7-6).

What wads are you using?

A factory load to use for comparison with your handload would be the 2 3/4" Federal (F130) 34 pellets of #4 Buck.

Also the 3" Federal (F131) with 41 pellets of #4 Buck.

quote:

What wads are you using?

Away from my data, but think I remember it calls for a WW red wad with 2/3 of the petals cut back and the mylar sheet added.

quote:

I think Rem had a Hevi shot buck shot load out the most likiely is the ultimate.

Granted, but can one buy the Heavyshot buckshot to reload, and do you have data????

'HeavyShot' is not available for reloaders.

'Tungsten based'.......

Hornady Buckshot is 5% Sb ..... as I recall.

I seem to recall loading AAA, AAAA, 4 buck and 00 buck? A friend took a nice mule deer with the 4 buck.

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:
'HeavyShot' is not available for reloaders.

'Tungsten based'.......

Hornady Buckshot is 5% Sb ..... as I recall.

HeviShot is available to reloaders, but it is expensive. HeviShot at Ballistic Products

quote:

Originally posted by Quarter Round:

HeviShot is available to reloaders, but it is expensive. HeviShot at Ballistic Products

Quarter Round, I stand corrected! Ballistics Products does sell Hevi-Shot as a component (BP has EVERYTHING)!

But $280 for 7# of 00 Buck Hevi-Shot! (That's over $.31 PER PELLET)

But it's ONLY $140 for 7# of Hevi-Shot in the smaller sizes.

BP also advises the use of specially designed wads that protect the barrel from damage by this extremely hard shot!

I'd say if you want tungsten Hevi-Shot ....buy the factory loaded stuff.

But, if you want to "roll your own", stick with the regular 5%Sb lead buckshot or get plated buck.

To many $$ for me. Makes the nickle and copper plated shot look more attractive.

quote:

To many $$ for me. Makes the nickle and copper plated shot look more attractive.

There is the rub. Who is making good quality, hard, true elctroplated shot any more. Have not been able to find any plated buck shot of any type.

Maby I missed something but,,,,Why are we wanting plated buckshot? The reason it's not out there is because the game generally shot with such is not migratory birds,,under fed. protection,,Thus no demand. Maby contact National bullet,,or ranier,,They offer plated cast bullets,,they might plate some shot for you,,or thumb through the yellow pages,,and see if theres a plating company near you.Good luck!!!!!!Clay

Now that I think about it,,You might be on to something with plating shot,,with chrome in particular,,Shoot an offender,,the shot deforms and pops the chrome shell,,now those little shards of chrome are floating around every where,,,Like lots of little scalpels,,Don't take me too seriously on this ,,Clay www.surgeonsnightmare.com

quote:

Originally posted by worriedman:

There is the rub. Who is making good quality, hard, true elctroplated shot any more. Have not been able to find any plated buck shot of any type.

Speer makes plated 00 Buck.

That is a start, now if you can come up with some 0,#1 or #4, that would be the ticket.

quote:

Originally posted by worriedman:
That is a start, now if you can come up with some 0,#1 or #4, that would be the ticket.

That's a pretty damned hard 'homework' assignment, worriedman!

I know SOMEBODY still makes them..... because they are available in factory ammo.

BUT.....where they can be found as reloading components.......?

I stand corrected on my other post,,,But why the need for the plating in the first place?,,I just might learn something out of this yet,,is it easier on the bore? maby a little faster,,the shot leaving the wad before exiting the barrel?Clay

quote:

I stand corrected on my other post,,,But why the need for the plating in the first place?

All other conditions being equal ..... they pattern tighter than lead shot.

Less 'deformation' of pellets during setback that will lead them astray!

I'm sitting here with several hundred rings of copper,,practiceing making chain mail? copper is still rather soft,,can't see where it would affect the shot that much,,plated bullets are just a dusting of copper anyways,,,please tell more,,Clay

The copper plating aids in lubrication, re the old term "Lubaloy", tends to make the passage of shot through the forcing cone easier, deforming fewer pellets, resulting in tighter patterns. Plus the shot is slicker, resulting in deeper penetration. I can personally attest to the fact that copper plated #6"s "pull" a lot fewer feathers on pheasants and ducks, back from the time that we could use it on waterfowl.

Once upon a time, I remember being told Remington used graphite in their mixture of plastic powder in buckshot loads...they did pattern better than most others in a cyl bore 18" 870 barrel. We burned a lot on the range at 30 yds and under and shot a few deer when necessary, but depending upon application, they were probably no better than any others.

The FBI Lab did some vest penetration tests in the late 80's and as I recall...there wasn't any real difference in brand or loads noted. Steel buckshot and flechettes were a different story!!

quote:

copper is still rather soft

But harder than lead with 5% Sb.

While deformation takes place when pellets pass through the choke, the worst deformation of buckshot occurs during 'setback'. Shot buffers help. Harder pellets help. Properly designed wads also help.

O.K. report on first round. Used Rem. 3" hulls, 32 #4 Hornady buckshot, WW12R wad cut 2/3 petal length, shot wrapper, Longshot, and PSB buffer. I loaded mild on the powder. 30 yrd. patterns with SBE II full choke, all 32 pellets in a 30" circle. Shot was thin in the very center, but still all in, 10 rounds tested. More details on the next rendition, intend to kick up the powder a couple of grains. (Brings this one up to the book recipie).

quote:

Originally posted by worriedman:
O.K. report on first round. Used Rem. 3" hulls, 32 #4 Hornady buckshot, WW12R wad cut 2/3 petal length, shot wrapper, Longshot, and PSB buffer. I loaded mild on the powder. 30 yrd. patterns with SBE II full choke, all 32 pellets in a 30" circle. Shot was thin in the very center, but still all in, 10 rounds tested. More details on the next rendition, intend to kick up the powder a couple of grains. (Brings this one up to the book recipie).

worriedman, I think kicking up the powder charge might increase the "doughnut effect" on your patterns. But, you'll only know for sure by testing.

Sometimes a choke with less constriction will deliver a more evenly distributed pattern with buckshot. You might want to try your modified choke tube on a few rounds just to see if it helps improve your patterns.

Did you "stack" your pellets or did you use a "random fill" with this load combo?

Stacked them, they fit the hull four to a run pretty well, a little less than 1 5/8 oz., but close enough. I backed off 2 gr. of powder to start, will take it to the recipie level on the next batch. These are for coyotes and home defense, once I get the 3" down, will start working on a 2 3/4 for the old A-5.

Has anyone done any pen tests with #4 buck, vs. 0 or 00 or 000?

I did some patterning this past weekend with some factory loads and some home loads. The #4 buck looked good, but I have some conserns about penetration.

quote:

The #4 buck looked good, but I have some conserns about penetration.

OVER or UNDER penetration?!!!

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:

quote:

The #4 buck looked good, but I have some conserns about penetration.

OVER or UNDER penetration?!!!

Well, both.
My loads are not magnum loads. If my target is large, and wearing heavy leather, or at extended ranges, would I get under penetration?

IF my target is up-close and personal will I get over penetration.

And just for grins, how about non-two legged animals. Buck was originally for deer, but is not allowed in most states.

Same question, but for commercial mag loads.

quote:

My loads are not magnum loads. If my target is large, and wearing heavy leather, or at extended ranges, would I get under penetration?

IF my target is up-close and personal will I get over penetration.

Over-Penetration with buckshot usually involves pellets that missed the "bad guy" or went through a portion of the "bad guy" that didn't provide much resistance to penetration.

A pellet of #4 buck will not penetrate dry wall, car windows and other "stuff" like 00 buck! (If you need serious penetration through cover..... I would recommend against using buckshot!)

I'd limit the use of #4 Buck to under 20-25 yds. in serious self-defence situations .... because it loses penetration power very quickly.

#4 buck works well on coyotes at close range but I would never hunt deer or any larger game with buckshot smaller than #1 (.30").

The ultimate buckshot load for me is the Pagoda style by ballistic products. Using 3 1/2 10 ga and 000 buck stacked gives good performance on deer to 100 yds. Use 28 in barrel and improved cylinder for no restriction to mess up the columns coming out of the barrel.

quote:

A pellet of #4 buck will not penetrate dry wall, car windows and other "stuff" like 00 buck! (If you need serious penetration through cover..... I would recommend against using buckshot!)

I dunno about #4, never used it. #3 will penetrate a broadside 250# boar at 30 yards unless it strikes bone so I guess I'll stick with that when I go drywall hunting. I'm also guessing that Worriedman already has his load so I'll mosey along.

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:
A pellet of #4 buck will not penetrate dry wall, car windows and other "stuff" like 00 buck! (If you need serious penetration through cover..... I would recommend against using buckshot!)

quote:

Originally posted by DigitalDan: I dunno about #4, never used it. #3 will penetrate a broadside 250# boar at 30 yards unless it strikes bone so I guess I'll stick with that when I go drywall hunting. I'm also guessing that Worriedman already has his load so I'll mosey along.

I was referring to the use of buckshot against "bad guys" behind cover. I guess you didn't understand that, DD.

DD, I'll take your word that #3 Buck works like "Thor's Hammer" on pigs (broadside) at "30 yards" (measured?). But, I would recommend heavier shot for pigs if they aren't confined in a pen.

quote:

Originally posted by ddunn:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/ballistics_shotgun.html

http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/content_nonsub/gelatin_te..._4_fed_prem_mag.html

Good post,ddunn!