So, looking around the old intertoobs the other night, I came across something that sparked my interest. There are rifle cases which approximate the same size as .410 shotshells, some even like the .444 Marlin which don't require any fire forming to be used.

Apparently, these "hulls" will basically last forever because you're only applying a fraction of the pressure the cases are designed to take. The internal diameters are a little off, but it doesn't appear to be a huge deal, since the top wad is glued in.

Has anyone tried these (or their fire formed brethren .303 Brit, 9.3x74R, &c.)? The intertoobs suggests that you can get great results with these. If that is true, then their durability makes them essential for shtf-type situations.

quote:

Apparently, these "hulls" will basically last forever

Or until you loose them.

It's not just the pressure (or shooting them) that wears them out (work hardens the case) but the reloading cycle of sizing them, flaring the case mouth, and crimping too!

The 444 Marlin works pretty well. With an overshot wad, you can load 1/2oz loads easily. The same as 2 1/2" 410 shotshells. The 444 case is 2 1/4" long but so is the above 410 shotshell aftert star crimping.
The Marlin case does have a slighty smaller rim diameter than the shotshell and will give some extraction/ejection problems in some repeaters.

You can usually get a way w/o F/L resizing when reloading when using these if you shoot them in a single or double.

Use in a repeater may demand that they be resized as any cartridge is. In any case, the thin fragile case mouths will get battered and dented to less than round looking. They will have to be straightened back out again with some sort of instrument when they do. With a simple tapered rod it's easy, but it's also easy to expand the mouth a little too much. Makes it easy to push the wads it that way, but then the shell won't chamber w/o pushing that 'bell' back in place. Now you need another 'tool'.

If you glue in the top overshot wad instead of crimping it, that's another thing that'll save the brass from work/cracking.
I used to use cheap window&door caulking as a seal & glue for the top wad on BP 12ga and 500x3 BPE shot loads in brass cases.
Worked well, never had one come loose from recoil.

No real need to bell the mouth to get the wad to enter.
If you use card and fibre wads they go in easier than plastic shot shell wads. But either way it's not hard to start them into the cases. Just tedious at times!

Depending on your load, you may have to 'clip' the petals of the plastic wad so they don't protrude from the end of the case mouth.
That's usually when they're used in other shotload brass like blown out 303/30-40Krag.
Both of those are too small at the base diameter for the 410 but I'd guess people use them anyway.
They work better as parent brass for shot loads in magnum pistol calibers.

The .410 Single Shot SMLE 'Musket' is actually chambered for a 303 case blown out straight. The importers rechambered most of them to standard .410 shotshell so they'd sell better.
But if you have an orig chambered one, you can load shot and or round ball loads like the originals in straighten case 303 brass.

With all that, it's a tedious table top operation to prepare and load the brass cases with the wads, over shot wads, glue, ect.
You still have to decap, reprime & measure powder besides the wads, shot and glue business.
Every so often you have to straighten out the case mouths someway wether you use them in a singleshot or a repeater. They will get bent up.

Yes it can be done. There is that satisfaction gotten from being able to feed the firearm with other than store bought ammo.
I've done such things in the past.
Now I just pull the handle on the MEC.

I have done this but there are a few things on the downside. Some of these have already been mentioned. This applies to the .444 Marlin cases.
1=The rims are too thick for some shotguns, other shotgun chambers accept them alright.
2=They don't feed in some repeaters so crimping is necessary. This causes the case mouths to split fairly regularly. Just glue in a cardboard O/S wad.

3=The inside of the cases are larger so normal wadding doesnt seal as well. Track of the Wolf has the right size wads. Get the ones for Magtech brass shells. You can still use .410 shotcups but just cut off the seal part and set them on top of a card wad that fits.

You can improvise and your results may vary. Still, a good thing to have around for your .410 are some brass hulls.

Here in Britain there were so called chamberless guns that used brass shells. Not as with the US Marines for waterproof shells for combat but to "make" a gun of twelve bore weight into a near equal to a ten bore.

So as the brass case was THINNER you had a greater internal volume available thus more shot (and of course a greater diameter wad was required).

A quite "famous' Dr Heath was the man associated with a lot of this. He was of course a duck shooter in part.

What was always impressed upon me was that these brass cartridges for these chamberless guns were dangerous in a standard gun of the same bore as the large diameter wad would cause pressure issues.

So that may, or may not, be a factor in using a brass case in a conventional .410". As others have said either you use a conventional .410" wad and have a wad that doesn't seal or you use an oversized wad that fits the case and then had a wad that is too large for the bore.

That's a real good point Enfieldspares and one I never heard mentioned before.

My brother has been using the 444 cases in his 410 and has bought some 9.3x 74 brass to make some 3" shells. We will have to blow out the cases to straight wall - if we can decide a safe way to do it - but they should make great "heavy field" loads for grouse and rabbits.

At $4.50 each you may not want to pay the piper, but you can buy brass 3 inch .410

here

FWIW I just bought a close out at Midway (last one, unfortunately) of 20 Bertram 9.3x84 brass (cost about $1.70 each on sale), which works out to 3.22 inches long. Might work with case trimming. We'll see.

What about the .40 Basic 3 1/4" case?

I used the .444 brass successfully in an Enfield that had been converted to .410 smoothbore. Helps to anneal the mouth to allow slight crimp for feeding.

I use .30-40 brass fireformed and they too work very well.
In the converted Enfield rifles,a .40 caliber pistol or rifle bullet is accurate at 50 yards.
Multi-ball is OK but not great.