I am new to big shotguns for ducks and geese. I was looking at 3.5 inch 12 ga and 10 ga guns. I was told they are very similar on geese as the amount of shot is the same etc. If this is correct how long until we get a longer 10 ga shell? Can there be a semi auto 10ga 4inch? Is gun weight a problem now for the 3.5 or is recoil the limiting factor?

The 10 ga. is obsolete, effectively dead from a sales standpoint-- and there isn't much call for punt guns.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/10_gauge_obsolete.htm

You will get better shot strings with a 10ga than you will be from any 3.5" 12ga with the same shot load. Too bad the 8ga was outlawed, as it carried the same 2 1/4 oz load as the above and would be much easier on the shoulder because of the increase in gun weight.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
You will get better shot strings with a 10ga than you will be from any 3.5" 12ga with the same shot load.

Sorry, Hogkiller-- that is hogwash.

Everybody has there own thing, My SP 10 is better on Geese . For ducks its too heavy to swing at ducks so 3" or 3.5 " is and will be better. I use 3" on sea Ducks with good results.

quote:

Originally posted by RandyWakeman:

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
You will get better shot strings with a 10ga than you will be from any 3.5" 12ga with the same shot load.

Sorry, Hogkiller-- that is hogwash.

So Randy. I guess if you are right, then a 5" 20ga with the same shot load will still shoot shot strings like a 10ga or your beloved 3.5" 12ga.

Keith

Length of shotstring is not the issue; it is the theoretical effect of shotstring (pattern thinning at range on crossing shots) is the point. The effect is minimal at best: http://randywakeman.com/lowryshotstring.pdf

The cause of shotstring is deformed shot. In the case of waterfowl when using steel shot, there is no shot deformation rendering a moot point even "mooter."

Bob Brister would disagree. His "Shotgunning: The Art and the Science" is a fascinating read, especially the chapter involving the moving patterning board. Even though the .410 and the 28 gauge carry a similar payload (11/16ths vs 3/4ths of an ounce), the 28 gauge is more lethal because of its shorter shot column, which causes more shot to arrive at crossing target at the same time. Or so Brister proved. Brister said the same thing about comparing the 3" 20 gauge magnum load of 1 and 1/4 oz of shot versus the same weight out of a 12 gauge, mainly that there was no comparison.

Tom Roster seems to agree with Brister, as well.

The 3.5" 12 is an abomination. It needs a bunch of extra pressure, and more expensive wads to walk in the shadow of the 10. JMO, Dutch.

I agree with hog killer i have two browning bps one in 10 ga one in 12 ga both shoot the 3.5 the 10 walks on the 12 3.5 my 10 allways has a better pattern and i have most every 12 3.5 made and after a year of shooting 12 3.5 out of them they all browning included develop problems ejecting the shels after a couple hundred rounds of 3.5 in the 12ga my bps 10 has never failed and it is 10 years old and i lost track of how many times it has been fired.

quote:

Originally posted by PoppaW:
I am new to big shotguns for ducks and geese. I was looking at 3.5 inch 12 ga and 10 ga guns. I was told they are very similar on geese as the amount of shot is the same etc. If this is correct how long until we get a longer 10 ga shell? Can there be a semi auto 10ga 4inch? Is gun weight a problem now for the 3.5 or is recoil the limiting factor?

You will find a 10 is pretty heavy and welcome at that. It's for sure not a "carry around" gun due to the weight, but great sitting in a blind. And if you still want a 10G 4 inch length after shooting 25 2 1/2 oz. 3 1/2s more power to you Recoil IS a factor with a 10.

The 10 is still a viable gauge but it's mostly a goose hunters tool these days. I've shot both 3 1/2s (12 and 10) goose hunting and the 10 seems to work a lot better on the Honkers than the 12 does.

If you're interested in 10 gauges, I highly recommend the Browning Gold autoloader.

I just picked one up and have only had it out 3 times, so filter for the fact I'm still in the honeymoon period, but...

With the 26 inch barrel, it handles much better than the SP10 (which I used to shoot and traded) or the BPS. It's less front heavy, and just less heavy in general. Since it's gas operated, there's very little perceived recoil with the Remington steel loads or the Hevi-Shot loads. So far, no failures to feed (only about 20 shells through it, but it should only loosen up over time if I keep it clean).

Steve

My 10 ga Browning BPS isn't bad with steel shot, buckshot or slugs. With the 2 1/4 turkey loads, it's a handful. But how many turkey loads are you ever going to fire?

Some, so called expert say one thing,and other experts say another! I say as long as ammo is made for any firearm,or can be made it,s not dead!!! No matter what some so called expert says! IMHO

I like a 10. I use if for deer and turkey mostly and feel for this it is vastly superior to nay 12. I am going goose hunting the first time this fall-- and was told by my host to bring the 10 for goose.

I have owned alot of 12 ga and 10 gauge shotguns. Im my opinion the 10 gauge rules for Geese.

This is the baby you want a 2 bore, 5 oz shot 10 drams of black powder,
getting back to the 10 is dead BULL S''T i have both 10 and 3 1/2" 12, the 10 out patterns the 12 all day with steel,lead,bismuth,and H-S,
i never fire 3 1/2" 12cart any more just stick to 3" and 2 3/4" steel
as i live in the uk we can still have 10`s 8`s 4`s and the one in the picture

The 10 gauge will always out perform the 3.5 12. Now, if both are loaded to equal pressures the 10 gauge trounces the 12 to a large degree.
I have a SP-10 and a Benelli SBE that I use for approximately 30 days of waterfowling per year. The 10 gets the nod for all goose hunting and for everything after the first week of the season. the recoil of the 10 is actually less as the SBE is vsicious with 3.5 loads. The 10 also patterns much better and just plain works better in the field.

I have and use both a 12ga 3 1/2 in and a 10 ga 3 1/2 in . The 10 ga is a BPS and the 12 a Rem 870. I'm not sure what guns some of the above mentioned have used but if you use a modern shotgun with choke tubes in both guns the 10 ga out performs the 12 by a large margin on big geese. Any one who claims a 12 ga 3 1/2 in will equal or better a 10 ga:
1/ has never used a 10 ga
2/is a cronic bullshitter.
Both guns kick but the 10 ga is heavier and a lot easier to manage. The recoil on the 3 1/2 in 12 ga is pretty nasty.

snowman
one of us
Posted 14 April 2007 02:11 Hide Post
I have and use both a 12ga 3 1/2 in and a 10 ga 3 1/2 in . The 10 ga is a BPS and the 12 a Rem 870. I'm not sure what guns some of the above mentioned have used but if you use a modern shotgun with choke tubes in both guns the 10 ga out performs the 12 by a large margin on big geese. Any one who claims a 12 ga 3 1/2 in will equal or better a 10 ga:
1/ has never used a 10 ga
2/is a cronic bullshitter.
Both guns kick but the 10 ga is heavier and a lot easier to manage. The recoil on the 3 1/2 in 12 ga is pretty nasty.


I have owned and hunted with a fiew.

Ithica Mag 10
Remington Sp-10
BPS {Browning} 10 Ga
Zabala S/S 10 Ga
Armi San Marco 10 Ga O/U
Richland 10 Ga S/S
American Arms 10 Ga O/U
American Arms 10 Ga S/S
This is just what I can remember quickley.

These were all just "hunting guns" No frills kinda property. But they still killed geese better that any 12 ga 3 1/2 I have owned. The BPS was a good gun built stout, and a pain in the ass to clean. I would stay away from American Arms They arent built to well.
You can buy a 10 ga or join the group of people who are in the 12 ga 3 1/2 'fad'. What ever you wanna do. I have learned my lesson about guns and geese on my own....the hard way.

Maxbear Sounds like you have have some 10 ga experience. I used an Eibar double for quite a while before getting the BPS. You are correct in saying the BPS is a little awkward to clean. Sure wish Remington would make an 870 in 10 guage. The receiver from the SP10 could be modified.One thing I wanted to say about the std Invector choke tubes. The ones that came with my shotgun didn't really excite me. However there are some aftermarket choke tubes that really perform. I think you just have to try some to believe what they will do.

Not really sure where to chime in here, or even if I want to. I've a deal of experience with the 12 gauge 3" and the 3.5" as well as a LOT of second hand experience with the original 'Big Ten,' that being the Ithaca 10 ga mag SXS double. My father had one of those cannons and killed a LOT of geese with it, as he hunted every day of the goose season except Sundays and for many years guided in hat is now the So. Illinois “Quota Zone.†He loved the Big 10 as he called it but only if he could get the 3.5 shells and they were hard to find, usually bought them in case lots from Winchester in Alton, IL - he always maintained the Winchester "SuperSpeed" with the "Lubaloy(tm)" copper plated shot worked better than the Super-X loads. When he ran out of the mag shells he went back to a 12 gauge 2 ¾â€, shooting an old Winchester ’97 pump.
When he bought the Big 10 at a farm auction he got three boxes of mag shells with it and I've heard him tell the story many, many times that he killed 55 geese with those 75 shells which were loaded with #3 shot. Oh, did I mention he was a remarkable shot at anything that flew?
Now, to get to the 3.5 12 gauge, and I use one today - Benelli SBE - I sincerely think we went the wrong way here. By way of explaining, I loaded a lot of shells to shoot ducks and geese when you could do such a thing and it was my experience if you used less shot and pushed it faster you were ahead by a mile. I settled out on a 12 gauge 3†load using a heavy load of Herco, Herter’s unslit wads and 1 3/8 OZ of either copper or nickel plated lead shot, size BB’s for geese and #5’s for big ducks. And believe me, you could reach out and touch a big old Canada a long long way with this load. The components I listed should tell you how many years past that has been.
Our British brethren were and maybe still are heavy proponents of ‘squaring the bore,’ i.e.: in a 12 gauge with say a .729†bore diameter, roughly ¾’, the perfect load would be a ¾†cylinder full of shot ¾†deep – I think this is almost exactly an ounce if memory serves me correctly. And I believe you can now buy a 3.5†12 gauge ‘Turkey Load’ with 2 ¼ OZ of shot? I can’t imagine how long that nebulous shot string would be when firing such a load!
But, everyone has their own ideals. If I once again lived where I could hunt geese on a daily basis, I would own a 10ga, no question about that. Short of goose hunting, I can’t imagine anything with less flexibility or usefulness. The Benelli serves me well, I’m sure other makes and models would also. My son shoots my Remington 11-87 with 3†loads and about the only difference I can see between the 12 gauge 3†and the 3.5†is he can’t shoot my shells but I can shoot his!
Hope some of this helps – did not intend for it to grow so long.

TrapperP[quote]Not really sure where to chime in here, or even if I want to. I've a deal of experience with the 12 gauge 3" and the 3.5" as well as a LOT of second hand experience with the original 'Big Ten,' that being the Ithaca 10 ga mag SXS double. My father had one of those cannons and killed a LOT of geese with it, as he hunted every day of the goose season except Sundays and for many years guided in hat is now the So. Illinois “Quota Zone.†He loved the Big 10 as he called it but only if he could get the 3.5 shells and they were hard to find, usually bought them in case lots from Winchester in Alton, IL - he always maintained the Winchester "SuperSpeed" with the "Lubaloy(tm)" copper plated shot worked better than the Super-X loads. When he ran out of the mag shells he went back to a 12 gauge 2 ¾â€, shooting an old Winchester ’97 pump.
When he bought the Big 10 at a farm auction he got three boxes of mag shells with it and I've heard him tell the story many, many times that he killed 55 geese with those 75 shells which were loaded with #3 shot. Oh, did I mention he was a remarkable shot at anything that flew?
Now, to get to the 3.5 12 gauge, and I use one today - Benelli SBE - I sincerely think we went the wrong way here. By way of explaining, I loaded a lot of shells to shoot ducks and geese when you could do such a thing and it was my experience if you used less shot and pushed it faster you were ahead by a mile. I settled out on a 12 gauge 3†load using a heavy load of Herco, Herter’s unslit wads and 1 3/8 OZ of either copper or nickel plated lead shot, size BB’s for geese and #5’s for big ducks. And believe me, you could reach out and touch a big old Canada a long long way with this load. The components I listed should tell you how many years past that has been.
Our British brethren were and maybe still are heavy proponents of ‘squaring the bore,’ i.e.: in a 12 gauge with say a .729†bore diameter, roughly ¾’, the perfect load would be a ¾†cylinder full of shot ¾†deep – I think this is almost exactly an ounce if memory serves me correctly. And I believe you can now buy a 3.5†12 gauge ‘Turkey Load’ with 2 ¼ OZ of shot? I can’t imagine how long that nebulous shot string would be when firing such a load!
But, everyone has their own ideals. If I once again lived where I could hunt geese on a daily basis, I would own a 10ga, no question about that. Short of goose hunting, I can’t imagine anything with less flexibility or usefulness. The Benelli serves me well, I’m sure other makes and models would also. My son shoots my Remington 11-87 with 3†loads and about the only difference I can see between the 12 gauge 3†and the 3.5†is he can’t shoot my shells but I can shoot his!
Hope some of this helps – did not intend for it to grow so long.

See you in the swamp!

Hey that was a fun read. I love those story's that came from the old timers. Times were differant back then. They had to put by and make do with what they had.