Good afternoon,

Recently I acquired a previously enjoyed MEC 600 JR in 20ga and I would like to start reloading 20ga 3" 1 1/4oz #4 (Lead).

I have the Lyman 5th Edition Shotshell Reloading Handbook. On Pg 193 it lists the 1 1/4oz load using the Winchester Compression Formed Plastic Cases Fold Crimp. Would the 3" hull from Winchester Drylok (steel) be the same case? I have everything except for wads (currently trying to find WIN WAA20 or REM SP20 here in Canada) to get started just need confirmation.

Will be using this load for Pheasants (Lead is still legal for upland game birds in my area) or other critters likes rabbits, small game etc. Firearm is a Benelli M2 with Muller Choke Tubes. I'd like to keep the load on the heavier sized as I replaced the factory recoil spring with a Wolff 25% power spring and need a little extra pop to ensure proper cycling. Thanks!

No, it wouldn't. (Drylock current production for AA CF data)

Those are rifenhauser style cases now.

Supposedly the HS style new case can take the same reloading data as compression formed cases of the same length. Its sort of due to the lips of the base wad often catch on the wad cup edge.

Cut one apart and see... it has a separate plastic basewad.

You are probably best off finding data for a load with a rifenhauser style case (Fiocchi, maybe the newer remington hulls, etc.) and see how close it is, or just getting some cases and using the data for them. Lyman 5th is the most recent manual, but they are all getting dated now.

One of the problems with reloading now is that they are rapidly changing the cases and while here in the US we can send them in to places like Precision Reloading or Tom Ambrust to get them tested and thus kind of develop our own data, that won't work for you.

The unofficial way is to cautiously substitute components until it fits right and then test it. That is very against the orthodoxy of shotgun reloading (only follow a published recipe precisely) and you are taking some serious risks in doing so.

Availability has been very bad even south of the medicine line. I have had to sub primer brands, wads, and cases. Powder I have not been quite willing to experiment with.

Now, "heavier side" is different. The benelli is a recoil operated gun. You need momentum to make it work well, not pressure. So keeping shot weight at nominal and velocities at nominal while reducing pressure if possible is good. Slow powder, with a heavier shot weight is the best way to work it within limits.

I have the same type of gun (the choke tubes are a nonissue) and it has no issues with 7/8 oz field loads (1250-1300 FPS) shells. No issues with 1 oz loads that are at least 1100 FPS. It doesn't like subsonics at all. Even 1 3/8 tungsten ones.

Good advice. I agree that the new Winchester hulls cannot be substituted in the old Compression Formed reloading recipes. They are quite different internally. Study the internal construction and drawings of new Winchester 3" Drylock hulls and common Cheddite 3" hulls. Cheddite hulls often have three stars on the base, but not always. They are quite generic hulls and are used in Challenger, Superior Canadian, "New"Imperial, etc.) I predict you will find the Cheddite and Winchester hulls are identical or nearly so.

I load 7/8oz lead in 20g for my grandson using Winchester HS hulls that came from lead factory loads. Some of these cases are labelled Win AA Supersport, others just Win AA. I use Claybuster Win AA style wads i.e. made for the tapered compression formed cases.

These brass headed (not brass washed steel) yellow HS cases seemed to be a cross between the rifenhauser/cheddite cases and a compression formed case.
They do have a base wad but it is same colour plastic as the case, tapered and skived to fit tightly to the walls of the case and allow tight seating of the wad over the powder inside the base wad part with the wad not catching on the base wad lip. These cases are 8 star crimp so give a better crimp closure than 6 star.

According to Winchester, loading data is interchangeable when using their older compression formed or newer HS cases. From my limited experience this seems so at least with cases from previously fired factory lead shot loads.

I will add that despite the heads being brass in the Win AA HS cases I acquired for reloading, they were harder to resize in my press than the old Win compression cases I have traditionally used for loading 12g. I suspect the HS (high strength) part of the new cases comes about from use of tougher brass.

The HS part was advertising related to the tougher plastic used.

The brass (or steel) head contributes nothing to the strength of the case. All they are really there for is to provide a means of extraction.

I do think the brass on the newer AA cases is thicker than the older ones, and they do seem to be a bit harder to resize, but that has nothing to do with the moniker.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
The HS part was advertising related to the tougher plastic used.

The brass (or steel) head contributes nothing to the strength of the case. All they are really there for is to provide a means of extraction.

I do think the brass on the newer AA cases is thicker than the older ones, and they do seem to be a bit harder to resize, but that has nothing to do with the moniker.

I was only surmising that the tougher brass head was related to the HS moniker, I haven't seen advertising re the HS Winchester case. Don't know why Winchester thought their brass headed compression formed cases needed improving, these cases are some of the best available for reloading, I used nothing else for years of hunting and target shooting getting great life from the original compression formed case.

The reason they got rid of them was money.

The rifenhauser process is easily and cheaply amenable to mass production.

Their old CF moulds were wearing out.

Frankly, while I love the CF cases (and Remington STS and gun club bulls still are CF) the last couple years Winchester made the CF cases, they just weren’t as good. They wore out quickly and had a bit more QC issues.

If you want CF, use the Remington/Federal versions (the new federal HOA bull is a maroon STS hull.)

I agree with what's been written and I'll add my 2 cents about the HS hull.

It's junk and that plastic base inside the hull will separate and lodge in your barrel!!!

I had a couple partially come out in a semi-auto but they stayed in the mouth of the hull and one stuck in the choke of an O/U. I won't ever reload them for my use on the skeet/sporting field or elsewhere.

Zeke