I.know this is a Damascus barreled Lefever 12-ga sxs I.need load data for it .
I.think.I can use 20 ga adapters in it.This gun is beautiful wish I could put picture in.here .
I.know my.grandfather loved Lefever shotguns .This one is a 1901 h grade is perfict shape .
I want to hunt rabbits and grouse with It so.lead loads only .I can't wAit to shoot it .I.know
They.make those low pressure loads but I can't find them.Hopefully I.can find the 20 ga chamber adapters
For 12 ga too !

the 20 ga runs at a much higher pressure than the 12 ga. does.
that is not the direction I would be heading.

If you want to shoot any smokeless modern loads, first check with a good double shotgun gunsmith and have him look it over (for 12 ga shells) and if its safe, there are a few loads for classic doubles around that should be good. Check with Ballistic products to order them.

As to 20 ga, if you are talking about getting the Briley tubes or such, those are modern steel and you should be able to shoot pretty much any modern load in them, but I would check with Briley about the nontox stuff if you decide you want to go that way (steel/tungsten)

If you are talking about the "lil skeeter" style inserts, I have no clue if those are steel- but your performance on game with them will be crap as after it leaves the insert, effectively you are shooting a 20 ga shell down a 12 ga bore. No pressure issues for the damascus part, but its a glorified jug choke for the whole barrel and your velocity is way down. Can work for skeet and point blank range, but the only guy I know who used them on a barn pigeon had feathers flying everywhere and birds walking away from him.

Load data- the gunsmith will tell you how many PSI he thinks is safe and you can look at the load data in the manuals based on that for 12 ga, 20 ga with the brileys will be any published load.

Go over to DoublegunBBS.com
Shooting and reloading for Vintage shotguns is their thing.
Lots of info about loads, loading, older shotguns, which to use, what not to use. Tested loads, psi ratings ect.

FWIW using smokeless in a 12ga in a damascus bbl'd shotgun, the general thought is to keep breech pressures at the 7000psi and below mark.
MAny start below that and there are loads right out of the published manuals with ratings at or below that. These will give velocitys of 1200fps w/no problem so you don't loose anything to these low pressure loads.
BlackPowder 12ga shot loads test out in the general range of 6500psi.

Not all guns are candidates to be put back in action with smokeless or even BP. ,,and not every smokeless load out there is OK for use in a Vintage gun. Quite the contrary.
Many don't feel comfortable using the elderly guns with anything for shooting and that's OK. In that case, don't. It's your decision, your gun.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/f...tlist&Board=1&page=1

Using the short GaugeMAte type chamber inserts for a 20ga in a 12 really doesn't offer any measure of safety if that's the intention.
The sheet metal or plastic sleeve is just that and won't appreciably reinforce the damascus bbls chamber strength with it's use. The 20ga over the counter shells run around 13,000psi breech pressure,,or about twice what you are looking for in a load for your 12ga Damascus bbl'd shotgun.

Barrel inserts are an option though they can be expensive especially for two of them.
They stand on their own in being able to withstand the pressures of modern shotshells that they are chambered for. They do not in any way depend on the host bbl to reinforce them for strength.

I see a few shooters playing around with the old Stevens/Savage 4-tenner inserts yet in older shotguns. You can still find them especially on FleaBay. Some are steel and alloy construction, later ones are all alloy.
They work OK, but 410 shotshells get expensive too, so mostly the things end up being a one or twice novelty unless you reload 410.
The inserts were made in 12,16 & 20 host chamber sizes to take the 410.

Get you some brass shotshells and load with black powder substitutes. It's a hoot and should keep your Lefever safe. You will have to do some studying. Ballistic Products has all the wads and cards you need. Be sure to get the right sizes. Studying will help with that.

If you go to 16 gauge society website and ask about this, you will be given the directions for a site called something like Low Pressure Loads. the 16 ga society deals primarily with 16 ga shotguns, but there are several shooters of vintage guns, including Damascus barreled ones and they will be a very good source to get your gun shooting as original.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Taylor:
Get you some brass shotshells and load with black powder substitutes. It's a hoot and should keep your Lefever safe. You will have to do some studying. Ballistic Products has all the wads and cards you need. Be sure to get the right sizes. Studying will help with that.

This is the direction I would go but with black not a sub.

Buckeye, I have done it with black too. It's all a hoot.

I have been shooting Damascus and twist barrels in my double shotguns and double rifles for 30 years with smokeless. I keep the velocity and the weight of the projecdtile (bullet or shot) to what was originally intended and no problems. I shoot clays and birds with my shotguns and target and hunt with my double rifles and never. a problem as the pressure is within safe levels. Sherman Bell did a fantastic set or articles for the Double Gun Journal about Damascus and how strong the old barrels were. I also shoot black for kicks but prefer smokeless for 95% of the shooting. I have read, and developed my own, formulas for conversion of black to smokeless and it is nice to have new life in these old guns.
Cal