Can the high brass Remington long range express shells be reloaded? If so where do you find load data for them?

Thanks

Remember that the height of the brass is completely immaterial to the loadability and function of a shotshell. High brass is simply a marketing gimmick - it makes people who don't know better think that the shotshell has to be heavier loaded and more powerful. But you can load low brass hulls to the same velocity and with the same weight of shot charge as the heaviest magnum loads.

It works the other way around too. If the internal dimensions of a high brass shell are the same as the internal dimensions of a low brass target load, then the high brass hull can be loaded to a light target load with exactly the same load data as the low brass load.

So my sugggestion is to take your high brass Remington long range express hulls and try to load them with the same data you use for Remington low brass loads. If this works -- i.e. the components of powder, wad, and shot produce a column of the same height as in the low brass hull, and if you get a good crimp over the result -- then you are in business.

IMR, Hodgdon, and Alliant all provide loading data for loading 12 gauge Remington hulls with loads from 7/8 oz, of shot through 1 1/2 oz of shot, at various velocities.

Thanks LE270... I have not been reloading shotshells very long and what I have loaded so for has only been the winchester AA's. I was on a pheasant shoot and a few guys were shooting these. I picked up their empty hulls hoping to be able to reload them. I did not know if the Express hulls were the same design as the the Remington STS or Nitro's and if you use the same load data for the Express hulls that is in the manuals for the STS and Nitro hulls. From reading your reply they could be. I will look at the manuals.

One possible difference: these may be 6-star crimps instead of the 8-star that is used in the target loads. If they are 6-star, they can be reloaded but you will get better results by replacing the 8-star crimp starter (it's inside the next to final die on the MEC press) with a 6-star one.

Another point: If you are near a trap or skeet range where any substantial amount of shooting goes on, you can almost always pick up a lot of Remington or Winchester 12 gauge target hulls there, usually for nothing, as many shooters discard their empties. On a skeet range, 20 gauge hulls are also easy to find and pick up.

28 gauge and 410 hulls are difficult to find and pick up at a range as these shotgun sizes are much less commonly used.

LE270 these are 6 star crimps and I do have both the 8 and 6 crimp starters.
When loading the Long Range Express hulls do I use the same load data that is listed in the manuals for the Remington STS and Nitro hulls? I have not found any load data that specifically addresses the Long Range Express hulls.
Thanks

Pick up a Lymans 5th edition loading manual, not all Rem Express hulls are like the STS / Nitro 27 one piece hull. Most were of straight walled design and had a seperate plastic base wad and going back aways they had a pressed fiber base wad and used a 57* primer. Take a knife and section one and compare it to the picture in the manual. Unless you have a lot of them you maybe better of tossing them than buying the new components to reload them. In my experence the loading life on the Express hulls was about 3X.

ScoutMaster I have about 200. I think they are once piece construction. I do not recall seeing any press fiber base wad. I will check tonight but I believe it is plastic all the way down and around the primer hole

If they are indeed one piece construction without a fiber base wad, I'd try loading a few of them -- say 5 or fewer -- using data for the STS or Gun Club hulls, and see what kind of results I get. Then -- assuming they are modest loads (i.e. not the heaviest possible), that they've gone together well (i.e. you get the right column height and a good crimp) and that you are using a strong present-day shotgun, I'd try firing those. If they work OK, I think you are in business with them.

It is possible to use 6-point crimp hulls with the 8-point crimp starter, but you'll get better results if you can get the 6-point one.

LE270 thanks I will give them a try hopefully this weekend if I can get some remington wads. The only wads that I have are winchester AA12's and claybuster substitutes for the winchester wads. Do you have any recommendation on wads to use with these hulls?

Section a hull first and confirm that they are of one piece construction and have the same configuration as STS, Nitro 27, Gun Club, Shur Shot, Sport Loads etc. If so any of the wads listed will work. Check Alliant or Hodgdon's for data. My Express hulls may be older but are green ribbed straight walled hull with a seperate black plastic base wad.

I will open one up this evening and check it out. I have no other Remington shells to compare it too so I may have to post a picture or email a picture of it to someone that would be able to distinguish the difference.
Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Robe763:

LE270 thanks I will give them a try hopefully this weekend if I can get some remington wads. The only wads that I have are winchester AA12's and claybuster substitutes for the winchester wads. Do you have any recommendation on wads to use with these hulls?

Winchester AA12s and Claybuster substitutes work perfectly in 12 gauge Remington Premier, Nitro 27, STS, and Gun Club hulls -- I use these wads in Remington hulls all the time with excellent results. So I'd try those wads in your Remington Express hulls to see what result you get from them. I'd recommend using them for the shot charge for which they were designed -- the Winchester AA12 wad works best with 1 1/8 oz. of shot. I'd also recommend loading them with the data that gives about 1145 f.p.s. of velocity in Remington hulls.

If you get a powder + wad + shot column height that is approximately equal to what you are getting in your Winchester AA hulls, and that results in your getting a good crimp in the final stage of loading, I'd conclude that your Remington Express hulls are working just right.

Winchester AA's, Remington STS's and probably about anything you can think of will handle 1.5oz of #5's or #6's and 33.2 grains of LONGSHOT and will kill crows a long way further than about anything you'll buy at the "store"! "More fun than eatin' beans!" Reloadability of said hulls..........I haven't tried them a second, third or fourth time yet but first loading works well!! GHD

Scout Master I cut a hull open and there is no base wad and the side wall appears to be straight not tapered. Not sure how to post photo. Again I do not have any other remington hulls so I have nothing to compare it too.

LE270 from what you are saying I should be able to load these hulls using the remington data and substitute the wad listed in that data with the AA12's as long as the components load properly and I get a good crimp.

groundhog I will try that once I get the loading worked out.

Thanks

Robe, you realy need to get a Lyman's 5th. If they are indeed straight walled as you say they do not use the STS data which is a one piece tapered walled hull. Straight walled hulls need wads with larger base wads like the Fed 12S3, CB3118AR, Rem RXP etc.

I get the impression you are new to reloading please get a Lymans 5th and a reloading scale and read up on the how to section, all will become very clear.

quote:

Originally posted by Scout Master 54:

If they are indeed straight walled as you say they do not use the STS data which is a one piece tapered walled hull. Straight walled hulls need wads with larger base wads like the Fed 12S3, CB3118AR, Rem RXP etc.

I don't think this is correct.

If you look at the loading data in the Alliant manual, for example, loads are given using AA12 wads as well as RXP ones for such hulls.

In addition, this same loading manual gives data for use of both RXP and AA12 wads in STS hulls too.

So, although there may be some difference in base size between AA12 and RXP wads, those differences can be ignored for practical reloading.

I do agree with you that the shotshell reloader needs a powder scale because the published yields (in various loading manuals) from specified powder bushings with any given powder are almost never what the reloader will get in actual practice. So the reloader will need to use the bushing that gets him the powder charge (when weighed) that he actually wants, as opposed to what the chart says he will get.

quote:

Originally posted by Robe763:.

LE270 from what you are saying I should be able to load these hulls using the remington data and substitute the wad listed in that data with the AA12's as long as the components load properly and I get a good crimp.

Yes. Except that you will find loading data for Remington hulls that specifically is for use of the AA12 wad.

What powder and primer are you using? If you say, I will look up loading data for you using the AA wad in Remington hulls with 1 1/8 oz of shot.

LE270 I am new to shotshell reloading but I have been reloading centerfire rounds for sometime and have been checking powder measurements with my scales on the AA's I reloaded.

I have both winchester 209 and CCI 209 primers

Thanks

Trying to post picture of shell not sure if this is right.

[IMG]JPEG Image[/IMG]

Robe 763 - I suspect your "high brass" Remingtons are the same internally as the premier/sts/gun club/sport load/game load. The height of the brass has no bearing, only the internal case dimensions. Most Remington hulls made today are the same unibody, tapered construction. the entire interior of hull is not tapered, only the last little bit above the base.
Nevertheless, you should really open up one of the above Remington hulls & see that you have the same dimensions. Changes in the internal capacity of the case with a given load can change ballistics & internal pressures dramatically. This is not metallic reloading, where you could substitute different cases & simply back off the load a bit - -, & other than the "clone" wads being subbed for factory OEM wads, you need to follow a published recipie. Swapping hulls & primers have much greater safety implications than with metallic - the chamber/barrel of a shotgun is not nearly as strong as a centerfire rifle - - the first "sign of pressure" you get could be a damaged gun or a damaged shooter.

Eli

eliscomin I have cut open one of the shells and that is what I was trying to post a picture of. I am new to shotshell reloading and thought someone with more experience could look at it so that I am sure about the type of hull I have

quote:

Originally posted by Robe763:

I have both winchester 209 and CCI 209 primers

Thanks

OK.

What powder(s) are you using for shotshell reloading?

I have several types
Red Dot, Blue Dot, Herco, Unique, Winchester Powder I think 472 & 473 or either 452 & 453, 700X, 800X. Of these that I have I have only loaded the HERCO

OK.

Take your Remington hulls and load them with the Winchester 209 primer, 16.5 grains of 700X or 17 grains of Red Dot, the AA12 wad, and 1 1/8 oz of shot. This will give you a load that produces about 1145 f.p.s. of velocity. The 700X will produce a chamber pressure of about 10200 psi, and the load with Red Dot will produce about the same pressure.

If you want a load with lower chamber pressure, then use a load with 20.0 grains of 800X, all else the same; it will produce a chamber pressure of about 7800 psi and about 1140 f.p.s. of velocity.

Those will make excellent loads for trap, skeet, and sporting clays, and for a lot of hunting (depending on the shot size).

These loads are ONLY for lead shot. Steel shot requires different components and loading, and I do not recommend that you load steel shot until you are confident with your lead shot loads. For steel, you need different loading instructions.

I'd load and shoot those for awhile until you are confident with them. Then you can go for a heavier load if you wish to do so.

LE270 Thanks
The lead shot I have is #6 and # 7 1/2.
Was this information pulled out of the Lymann's book?
Again thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Robe763:

LE270 Thanks

The lead shot I have is #6 and # 7 1/2.

Was this information pulled out of the Lymann's book?

Again thanks

No. The information came from the Alliant and IMR manuals.

The size of the shot doesn't matter in loading -- it's the weight of the shot that matters.

# 7 1/2 is usually the largest shot permitted on trap, skeet, and sporting clays fields. I think it's too large for best results at skeet -- I use #9 for that -- but it's good for trap and sporting clays. In my opinion it's too small for most hunting, except for doves.

#6 is, in my opinion, near-perfect for most upland hunting of rabbits and birds.

Ok thanks