Recently I've been loading for a two inch 12 gauge shotgun. I cut down longer plastic Fiocchi and Winchester shells to 2 inches. The shells are too short for fold crimping, as there is little room for shot and wads, so I have been using a roll crimp. The roll crimp damages the case mouth and leads to having to discard the case after too few reloads. The case mouth is so new and fresh when cut down from longer cases that I hate to crimp them. I am considering using hot glue or another method to keep the contents in the case so that the case mouth isn't worked so much. This approach would be similar to brass shotshell cases in that with brass the case mouth is slightly crimped over an overshot card. I don't think plastic would hold its shape that way, but an adhesive may work. I am concerned about increased pressure and whether the hot glue would degrade the case mouth anyway. Any experience in this area?

How about wax?

Might work better than glue.

A few years ago I did some experimenting with 2" 12 ga. reloads. I used a conventional pie crimp. With that I could only get 1/2 oz-5/8 oz. of shot and I had to use card+felt wads. They worked great and were fun to shoot. It turns a 12 ga. into a .410. The recoil is so light that they won't reset an inertia type single trigger.
C.G.B.

I cut down a couple of Win CF cases some years ago to about an 1" long to use as live primed 'snap caps' when testing shotguns having misfiring problems and when fitting new firing pins and springs. Just to make these 'snap caps' look better and feed into semi-autos I gave them a light crimp on the mouth.
I still have these and the crimp has remained in place for years. An overshot wad and light crimp as per brass shotshell loading should work fine.

I used to load all brass shot hulls.
The over shot wad I held in place with a dab of cheap window& door caulk.

I would put a dab onto the overshot wad. Then holding the hull with my left hand I used my thumb of my RH hand and twisted the caulk around on the wad. and up against the inner edge of the hull.
It made a nice inner radius of the matr'l there and sealed the wad into position.

They needed to cure over nite.

Upon firing the cured caulk, which is a hard rubbery consistancy when cured, just crumbles & breaks up and exists the bore as that.
Nothing left in the bore or the hull but maybe a trace of color where the seal was.

The caulk can be bought in handy squeeze tube sizes.

Are the Win hulls Compression Formed (tapered) or Riffenhauser (straight wall) hulls?

Have you measured the fired length of factory 2" 12 gauge hulls? They are probably longer than 2". Good info to have.

Have you skivved the case mouths on the hulls that you cut down? This could really improve their roll crimps. Also, warming the hulls prior to roll crimping and warming the roll crimp tool will help. Plastic hulls can usually be made to behave.

both the CF and HS hulls are tapered.
they are called that because the bottom of the case is tapered inward.

the CF by means of bending in a plastic tube under heat and pressure.

the HS hulls use an insert that mimics that shape, and the tube is affixed to the head.

quote:

Originally posted by Alec Torres:
Are the Win hulls Compression Formed (tapered) or Riffenhauser (straight wall) hulls?

Have you measured the fired length of factory 2" 12 gauge hulls? They are probably longer than 2". Good info to have.

Have you skivved the case mouths on the hulls that you cut down? This could really improve their roll crimps. Also, warming the hulls prior to roll crimping and warming the roll crimp tool will help. Plastic hulls can usually be made to behave.

Shotshell case length is based on the fired length of a case, not the unfired cartridge length so if you want 12g 2" cartridges (if your powder, wads and shot fit into a 2" case) you should cut cases down to 2 1/4" to allow for a fold crimp.

Hulls are normally skived i.e. case walls thinned out at the mouth of the case so a satisfactory roll or fold crimp can be achieved. With cases shortened from longer parent cases obtaining a good fold or even rolled crimp may prove more difficult. Use of a sharp crimp starter such as the Super Crown brass starter will help in this regard for fold crimps.

I'll try the window caulk. Thanks

After a few false starts I'm producing very nice roll crimps using my milling machine and a roll crimper from ballistics products. The cases don't seem to be wearing out as I've loaded them several times each.

I'm curious what is to be gained by a 2" shell?

I load thousands of 12 ga skeet loads every year with 3/4 oz of shot and it's just so quick, easy and nice on my PW press that I cannot imagine the work you're putting yourself through.

There has to be a reason or I'd assume you wouldn't do it.

Zeke

Usually they are short chambered European guns.

Some folks also like the mini shells for increasing mag capacity.

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:
I'm curious what is to be gained by a 2" shell?
Zeke

From a "Brit"! The advantages are that it supposedly solves the problem of the man who is getting old and wants a lightweight gun, usually with 26" barrels, firing a lightweight load but that has the "bulk" on the action of a 12 bore gun even thought it has the weight of a 20 bore gun.

Now just as to why the person couldn't have bought a 16 bore I don't know. There is the argument that there's no accident waiting with 20 bore and 12 bore cartridges in the same gunroom also.

But...my father had a 12 and a 20 and it was never an issue. Again supposedly it gives a better pattern as there are less shot in contact with the barrel walls in a 7/8 ounce 2" 12 bore than a 13/16 ounce 2 1/2" 20 bore load.

But...Burrard reckons that there are issues with the cartridge getting up to pressure or performing as well (the 2" 12 bore) as a lighter loaded 2 1/2" 12 bore.

Ultimately these "the gun for the 20th Century" as some listed them gave a gunmaker a product different from his rival gunmakers. One thing is true. I am 6' 4" and 230lbs so a 26" barrel 2" 12 bore looks more elegant than does a 26" barrel 20 bore as the thing hasn't those stick thin barrels.