Yesterday, I got last component (powder hard to get in my country) to start reloading TSS shot.

I would like to use it now for long range goose and other longer range "goose sized" game.

My rifle is O/U 12 3.5" already equipped with Muller chokes.

For that purpose I have some TSS #5 shot. So my question is here. For the best long range performance, what I need to choose?

2 oz at ~1370 fps (about 221 shots)
2 1/4 oz at ~1240 fps (about 249 shots)
or 2 1/2 oz at ~1180 fps (about 277 shots)

I am recoil tolerant. Now, I shoot lead 2 1/4 oz loads easy.

Jiri

Jiri The best load would be the one that patterns best on both your barrels. I would suggest loading a few loads of each and pattern them. Assuming they all pattern OK I would choose the 2 oz load with the highest velocity. The highest velocity will minimize the lead angle at long range and increase chances of hits.

I wouldn't even go 2 oz's.
try some 1-1/8 or even some 1oz loads with a bit of speed behind them.
your upgrading from lead not matching it.

Lots of guys are using TSS #7 or even #9 shot and killing geese and ducks past 60 yards. Usually less than 1 oz.

Depending on your load and how it patterns in your gun, I don't see much advantage in over 1.5 oz loads, but that depends on pattern density, your #5 shot will probably maintain killing penetration past 100 yards, but your patterns will probably be too thin by then, even if you think 100 yard shots are ethical.

Also, anything you hit inside 25-30 yards with a 2 oz load of 5's is going to resemble hamburger.

Bigger shot => longer killing range
Bigger payload => maintain reasonable dense pattern at longer range

Will try to pattern loads at 100 yards or meters, after that I will decide.

I will not use those loads for general hunting situations. Those will be "high rangers in pocket" to use when situation for that occurs.

Will explain:

We have group hunts here, where pheasants are primary, can hunt hare sometimes too. You can hunt fox of course too and wild boars. When group is closing to water area, you can hunt ducks and gooses and also some invasive species.
Here, you can use lead for everything.

So primary we use something like 1 1/4 oz lead with shot size 3 to 4 mm (#4 to 1 approx.). But when you know that "fox is there" or "gooses will fly out", you can load this. And if wild boar occurs, you can load TSS #T.

So I will not load 1 oz or anything like this, because I am looking for Fiocchi 3.5" lead upgrade I use now for this purpose.


Jiri

Are you talking about 18g/mm3 TSS or just plain tungsten/iron shot? I have not seen the larger sizes available in the 18 g stuff.

Running 2 Oz of TSS over 1400 FPS is going to wreck your gun. Not pressure but recoil energy.

TSS is some 40% more dense than lead- you would not need a 3.5” shell to get 2 Oz in it, depending on your wad.

A friend shoots coyotes with hevishot T shot. That is 12g/mm3 at around 1200 and is a about a 2 Oz load in 10 ga. He has killed coyotes out to 75 yards with that. He has also used #2 hevishot waterfowl loads on them that are 12 ga at 1400 or so with an 1 3/8 Oz load and killed them as far.

Velocity makes a big difference, and the smaller pellet size gives more dense patterns. TSS tolerates velocity like steel, unlike lead which blows patterns.

You may well find the idea you are using causes big problems for your gun. The dense 18 g stuff is also much harder than barrel steel, and the wads used are not designed with large pellets that are that dense- they are designed for steel shot.

You are really in no man’s land there.

100+ yard waterfowling is not practiced here. I don’t know anyone doing what you are trying to accomplish, and at that range, your lead angles are going to be very precise to hit what you are shooting at...

crbutler:

Yes, I am talking about 18 g/cm3.

Top 2 oz lab tested load I have recipe for is 1370 fps, but I loaded for a little bit less.

You need to use dedicated wads and mylar wraps to protect your barrel.

You are right, you don't need 3.5" for that, but in 3.5", loads includes "flex gas seal wad".

All that loads have been lab tested and provided by experienced TSS loader to me. It takes about 6 months for me to collect all necessary components.

BTW Are you sure recoil will wreck my gun? Why?

Jiri

I don't know what gun you have but it isn't uncommon for heavy recoiling stuff like that to crack the stock or do other damage to the internals of some guns.
I know if you shove the bolt back too far on some semi auto's it will bend the rod going to the bolt in the area where the return spring is.
or even crack the joint where the rod and bolt are pinned together.

quote:

My rifle is O/U 12 3.5" already equipped with Muller chokes.

I don't believe it will crack stock and any semiauto problems are not of concern.

Jiri

I shot geese at 50 yards plus with an 1oz of 7 hevi shot and hammered them.

2 plus oz of TTS would be a smasher.

One still has the problem of getting on them

Let us know how your reloading goes I would like to see some patterns out past 75yards

Sure I will report, but no shotgun shooting time during Christmas.

Jiri

Have you ever fired 5 oz load?

I did yesterday because of my stupidity (wrong holding the shotgun in sitting position). I fired both 2 1/2" TSS loads from my OU shotgun almost at once. Recoil is noticeable ;-)

Because I am used to my really light .585 Hubel rifle, nothing wrong with me. I checked shotgun the first, survived flawlessly .

After that I tried that from standing position, one by one of course and recoil is not bad at all. Tried at about 75 m (80 yards or so), pattern is promising, but it shots lower than slugs by about 20". Will take bigger paper next time and will take the picture.

This is my load of TSS #5 at 50 meters. Also tried at 100 m on 8 layers of heavy cardboad and got complete penetration. I don't know if it means anything or not. I think that pattern is not the nicest one I have ever seen, but seems pretty tight.



What do you think?
Jiri

It is 150 shots plus minus few in 30 cm (12") circle at 50 m (~55 yards). And 230 shots in 60 cm circle (24"). Out of ~ 277 in load.

Jiri

If you can center the game in the pattern you should be able to kill it.

I have now time only on weekends. Every time I want to pattern that at long distance, there is wind, rain or together. And when it stops, there is dark ;-)

Jiri

That is a damn tight pattern! Most folks count % in a 36" (1y) circle for pattern percentages. You are better than 90% at 50m using a 1/3 less diameter.

#5 TSS is going to penetrate through geese at well over 100 y/m.

Looking at your pattern, I doubt that there is going to be much worth eating at 50 yards/meters shot at with that load! If its half as many pellets but still that percentage patterning, you would still be killing game fine. But look at it from the standpoint of how tight the pattern is, then thing how "on" you need to be to put that pattern on the bird at 100m. The pattern is dense enough- do you think you can hit a clay bird with it at 50-60m? That is going to be your challenge more than is the pattern dense enough to kill if you get it in the right spot.

I shoot 1 5/8oz load of #7 TSS at 1300. It's truly unbelievable how hard it hits waterfowl at 60 yards.

I killed fox at 62m with 27 gram load of 20 gauge modif8ed choke using TSS-18 #9 shot (2.0mm).

#7 will penetrate 12mm treated pine at 70m.

I would stick with 32 grams of #7 (2.5mm) and be happy.

If wild boar come use 4.5mm.

The energy of these TSS loads is truly amazing, but I can't imagine there are many people who can consistently put the barrel in the right place in front of a bird at 40+ yards. I have regularly practiced at clays beyond 50 yards for many years and I'm surprised at how many experienced shotguns will hit 10% or less of clays when they get past 50 yards. WAAAAYYYYY more lead is required than people are used to seeing - and it takes a really smooth and consistent move to regularly put a pattern on a target at those long distances.

This reminds me of the trend where everyone who buys a so-called long range rifle now believes they are suddenly qualified to wing bullets at deer and elk at 1,000 yards and beyond just because the back of the ammo box has a trajectory chart that reaches into the next County.

quote:

Originally posted by Kyler Hamann:
The energy of these TSS loads is truly amazing, but I can't imagine there are many people who can consistently put the barrel in the right place in front of a bird at 40+ yards. I have regularly practiced at clays beyond 50 yards for many years and I'm surprised at how many experienced shotguns will hit 10% or less of clays when they get past 50 yards. WAAAAYYYYY more lead is required than people are used to seeing - and it takes a really smooth and consistent move to regularly put a pattern on a target at those long distances.

This reminds me of the trend where everyone who buys a so-called long range rifle now believes they are suddenly qualified to wing bullets at deer and elk at 1,000 yards and beyond just because the back of the ammo box has a trajectory chart that reaches into the next County.

Amen to the shotgun AND the rifle shooting info that you gave. I shoot skeet, sporting clays and long range rifle, one of those at least once per week yet many guys want to pop off rounds a couple time per year and think that's fine.
When the ranges increase, the difficulty emerges exponentially in those sports.

Zeke