I know this is a "blackpowder" forum, but I just wanted to "gush" about a custom made smokeless I just picked up. It was built by a smith in PA using a Remington 700 action. First time firing it, I put 3 shots into a .494 inch group at 100 (and I think it can shoot better than that, with more scope and less wind than I had). It shoots a 275 grain .45 caliber Parker at 2925 fps, with M/E approaching 5000 ft/lbs. Needless to say, deer out to 400 yards are in big trouble.

Neat what powder are you using and sabots are you using and how does it hold the primer.

could you post pictures

The load is 78 grains of IMR 4198.

No sabots. That's one of they keys to the extreme accuracy of these guns. You need to have direct contact between the bullet and the bore, just like with centrefires. A cheap piece of plastic in between just adds an imprecise variable to the equation. Each bullet is run through a swaging die to ensure a snug fit.

The primer holders are simply brass cartridge cases (.308 Win. in mine, since that's the calibre action it was built on) cut down to about an inch in length.

I will try to figure out how to post pics as soon as I have downloaded them.

How much trouble to ram the bullet home.

Typically you can do it with 2 fingers. The tighter the fit, the better the accuracy, but obviously my accuracy is great and I certainly don't need it any easier than that to load.

You are loading 78 grains of IMR 4198 behind a 275-grain 45-caliber bullet? Where did you get that load data? I am thinking your "chamber" pressures are over the top!

A gunsmith in Virginia basically pioneered this design a number of years ago. He's built a pile of them over the years, and before he retired he made a DVD to show other smiths how to do it. A couple of years ago, while on a late muzzleloader deer hunt in Iowa, I met a bunch of guys from PA who were all shooting these rifles. They'd bought the DVD and got a gunsmith they know in PA to start building them. After hearing and seeing what these guns could do, I was sold. The smith in PA has tweaked and refined things a bit, including on mine. These guys in PA shoot these guns, at long range, A LOT, and I've not heard of any problems, other than an occasional nipple replacement.

As for the specific load, he experimented with a lot of different powder and bullet combinations and loads before finally landing on this one. However, they've now started using the new 325 grain Parker bullet, for larger game like elk, moose and bear, and apparently the performance of this bullet is even better (as it has a considerably higher BC).

so where can this DVD be purchased ? and who is the PA gunsmith ?

http://www.shurleybrothers.com...om-muzzleloaders.php

$3900... Go on; getcha some!

Shurley is the fellow who took over for Richard (Richard's Custom Guns) when he retired. Not sure if the DVD is still available. My gunsmith in PA is Tim Smith, Smith's Custom Guns. I provided the action and a McMillan stock, so I paid much less than that.

The "Custom Swager" does it also imprint the rifling into the jackted bullet?
Or how does this setup deal with gas blowby?

Not really. Just ensures a snug fit in the bore, but not too snug (does put some marks on the bullet). You don't want to fight the bullet down the bore, but you also can't have any gas or loose powder escaping obviously. To save a bit of coin, rather than a "custom swager", I opted for a stock Lee swager. My kit came with a box of Parker bullets, each having been run through the swager. To ensure a proper fit, Tim ran each one down the bore to test them. If the fit is a bit too snug, he'll run it through the swager a second time.

I don't handload, but I bought a hand primer to re-prime the used primer holders/cartridge cases, and a digital scale and powder trickler to measure out the charges.

The ones that Richard built had mostly long barrels and laminate thumbhole stocks. Neither of those appeal to me, so I went with a 24 inch barrel, a standard mount ramrod (rather than mounted with a barrel band), and a McMillan stock. It all turned out so well that Tim took several orders based on my rig from people who saw it and liked it so much. Some of the PA guys shoot 400 yard silhouettes with these guns, so they put some serious glass on them. I'm a hunter first and foremost, so mine has just a 3.5-10x Leupold.

Thank you for the site !

I'll second the request for the DVD...

If Richard is still around I'd love to purchase a DVD from him.

Best Regards,
Dave

Ontario Nimrod,

Thanks for the link. I look forward to seeing the DVD...

You mentioned that your smith refined the original design and tweaked things a bit....

Can you tell me what he did by way of improvements?

Best Regards,
Dave

Richard used primarily fancy laminated stocks. My guy (Tim Smith) and his customers, including me, prefer synthetics (McMillan, Brown, HS). Richard also used large barrel bands to mount the ramrod. Tim uses a much smaller band that looks a lot sleeker and better. I wanted it even more subtle so I had him do it TC style, and it looks great (Richard apparently felt that his design was necessary to handle the heavy recoil, but so far no problems for me). Tim also uses shorter barrels than Richard typically did. Mine's 24, although most of the other guys in PA have gone with 26. I think the custom loading funnel that Tim makes is also a bit different than Richard's. I'm sure there's a few other things that I've forgotten, but Tim would be able to tell you.

Looks interesting. I have one of the Savage 10ML's but havent shot it yet. Hope to soon. Please keep us posted on your load data. I know I read before that the sabot almost acts to protect the Savage in the event of an overcharge. The preasure blows around the bullet bleeding off some of the preasure??? FWIW...Internet info??

Bullets must be really soft to obturate and seal the bore, right? Otherwise, what makes them spin?

I believe so. It is a 275 grain Parker Ballistic Extreme. They recently developed a 325 grain model that testing has revealed is apparently a bit "harder" and requires a Wonder Wad for good accuracy. They have also just come out with a 300 grain version. Don't know whether that seems to require a wad or not, but the 275 certainly does not.

I've been using a Savage 10-MLII for several years but I'm really interested in this Rem 700 based design. Thanks for the information, I'll definitely be checking it out.

The gunsmith that built my smokeless has his website up and running again: www.smithscustomguns.com

My gun is the third one down under "Products - Smokeless Powder Muzzleloaders".

Nice looking rifle. How often do you have to change the primer cases. I assume the primer pockets eventually wear out?