Shooters

I have heard that I could load my Marlin 30/30 with Blackpowder and shoot my cast 150 grain bullets safely.

Which primer to use?

Can I and would you?

Please help

Clint

I just used a Std LR primer BUT before you do stop to think about all the work of tearing down your rifle to clean the B/P residue out of it. I tried this with a Marlin 444 and it was a lot of fun until clean up time. derf

I use BP in my Marlin .45-70 with mag. primers although some gun writers recommend standard LR primers. Since I always clean my leverguns from the breach, BP clean-up isn't any more of a chore than smokeless. However, cleaning the cases is another matter entirely. Get yourself a Lee Loader primarily for the decapping rod & base and take it and a gallon jug of warm soapy water (with vinegar added) to the range with you. After firing every 10 cases or so, decap and toss them into the jug. When you get home, shake them, add fresh soapy water and agitate again. Rinse and set the empties aside to dry. If you want them to be shiny, toss them into your tumbler/vibratory cleaner for ~45 mins. Hope this helps, ...Maven

Thanks Derf and Paul

Another question.

How much Black Powder do I use? and what about my 150 gr cast bulett? Do I use Gas Checks(I Hope Not)? and Should I lube with Lee Liquid Alox?

Thanks

Clint

I should think you could load about 28-35 gr. of 3F in that case. But, I've not tried it myself.

You want enough in there that it is mildly compressed when the bullet is seated. Use a drop tube to ensure the powder settles properly. You can make a drop tube out of copper tubing. Standard primers usually work. Try a couple with magnums. Sometimes better, sometimes not.

Just as critical is the bullet lube. SPG would be the first choice. Most lubes for bullets or on bullets you buy commercially in this caliber are for smokeless. They usually don't work well after about 5 shots. The purpose of the lube is to soften the fouling so that it doesn't deform the bullets.

You don't say why you want to do this. If it is just for fun, get some books on the subject. That will help tremendously and is fun in itself.

If you just have powder and bullets and need ammo, well...

[ 08-26-2003, 19:10: Message edited by: Hobie ]

AZ; The 30/30 is/was a B/P cartridge. 30cal and 30gr of Black Powder. Paul is right on about the cases and Hobie is dead on as well. 3F should work best in a 30cal. If you follow the advice of these guys you should have a real fun time. derf

carcano91 is absolutely correct. I should have mentioned it myself.

However, the .32 Win Special was supposedly developed to provide .30-30 ballistics in a gun better suited to reloading with BP. There's been a lot of discussion about this over the years but I knew several old timers who actually did this... so, who knows. In any case, charge was as I stated. You will have to experiment a bit.

If it was me, I'd mark a case on the outside as to where the base of the bullet I was using would be. Then I'd try various charges through a drop tube until I had one come about 1/8" or a shade more above that line. That would be my charge. Exactly what it is is unimportant. I suppose you'll get about 1500 fps. Lot of variables working here so I can't be sure.

Good luck.

I tried this myself a few years back. It will be low power compared to smokeless loads. From memory, it held about 35-40 grains of BP. The 30-30 was NOT originally loaded with BP. Fill the case to where the bullet will compress the BP about 1/16" to 1/8" when it is seated.

Use a lead bullet with BP LUBE. This is VERY important. Smokeless lube is worthless for BP and bad accuracy will be the result. If the BP residue is hard, accuracy will go downhill fast. In that case, you will need a different bullet with more lube space OR you will have to use a grease/lube wad under the bullet.

The indoor range (at least around here) will not allow BP inside, so you will probably have to have access to an outdoor range. Carry a Redi-Whip or Margarine tub with a lid and half filled with soapy water. Throw the cartridge case into the tub as soon as you eject it. When you get home, rinse them, let them dry, then do what you would ordinarily do (clean, size, decap, etc.). The water will be VERY dirty when you pour it out. Cleaning the gun is important, but a lever action is not as bad as a single action (or worse, a DA) to clean.

Good luck, but I think you will find it disappointing.

Sir: i have shot 3f bp in the 30-30 for a long time. also 3f duplexed with 4227. i use medium hard 31141's w/gc and a win large rifle primer. thinned lee lube and bp lube after sizing. bp to touch or be compressed by bullet with correct length seating. sometimes i used a 1/4" square or other size of toilet paper wad to be held firmly between the powder and bullet. duplex loads shot best for me in a fairly new 94, but an older 94 liked it straight. i only experienced leading in 10 round strings when the lube failed or i ran the barrel too hot. clean up is easy, start shooting with a gun lightly lubed except chamber, but including the bore with ed's red. to clean the barrel after shooting, push a piece of heavy nylon fishing leader down the bore with a small loop tied in the chamber end. use a patch in the loop that is snug in the bore but that will not jam. pull to the muzzle with line centered. any leading can be pushed out with a patch and jag and ed's red. it came out fairly easily for me. i have always used wd-40 for rust protection . be careful , you can get more case base expansion with bp than with a factory load if you pack enough powder in. regards, ned ludd

Azcoyhunter, One thing I forgot to mention is the use of a blow tube, essentially a length of plastic tubing long enough to go from your mouth to the empty chamber of the Marlin. After firing a BP round (with BP lube only), you put one end of the tube in the chamber and blow gently through it for ~20 secs. to keep the fouling moist & soft, which is essential for accuracy. I've got as many as 15 accurate shots in my Marlin using this method, but only 3-5 without it. The serious BP cartridge shooters can easily get 50+ accurate shots off before they have to swab their bbl's. Have some BP solvent (soapy water will do, as will windshield washer fluid)with you and a large no. of patches so that you can swab, then dry the bbl., the idea being to maintain as a consistent a bbl. condition as possible. ...Maven

When hunting the blow tube might not be convenient, but that makes the lube all that more important. Again, you don't say why. I'd be interested in that part of it.

Micro grooves foul real quickly when shooting black powder loads, at least they did when I was testing 35 remington with BP loads...Accuracy went south after only a very few rounds, even when later going to duplex loads.

regards,
Graycg

Actually my Microgroove doesn't foul that much more than my T/C Hawken and its bbls. (1:48, 1:66 @ .45cal. & Green Mt. 1:66 @ .50cal.) With the muzzle loader, I swab & dry the bbl. (whichever one I'm using) after every shot for max. accuracy with BP, after ~5 with Pyro. RS or P. However, maxiballs, with heavier powder charges, require swabbing after every shot with either powder. As for the .30-30, I don't think I'd use a blow-tube for hunting. (Yet, the arid AZ climate may demand it.), but I definitely would use a lube expressly made for BP to keep the fouling in check, especially with Microgroove rifling. Btw, BP lubes, which really do dissolve the fouling, can be store bought, e.g., T/C, SPG or home-made, e.g., Emmert's, "moose milk" ...Maven

hi
does someone tried the new BP subtitut called clean shot for loadind metalic cartridges?
danny

WOW

Thanks to all.

The reason that I want to do this, is that I have never shoot black powder and I have heard that the 30/30 was/is a Black Powder rifle. I still do not know if it is, but still I would like to try it.

This is not really something that I need to do, but it seems like it would be fun.

Do I need gas checks?

I would love to hunt with it, as my handle says, but I would shoot alot, so as not to wound the fawn killers, just KILL them.

Thanks again

Clint

Hobie, A blow tube is used to keep a little moisture in the barrel. This reduces fouling inbetween shoots.

azcoyhunter, You asked "How much Black Powder do I use?" Black powder is loaded by volume, not weight. Use a drop tube (aluminum or brass, never plastic or steel) and work up a load that when you seat the bullet, you compress the powder about an 1/8" This is important when loading BP. Open space in the case will cause extremly high pressures! BP is a lot different than smokeless, IT EXPLODES! As long as there is no air gap between the bullet and the powder you're good to go. I shoot 45-70 BP rounds and cast my own bullets, it's a lot of fun.
Terry

TC1,

I know that about the blow tube. Do you really want to cart it about while hunting? I don't, others don't. Don't work in some places. Does in others.

You can load BP by weight. Ross Seyfried does. It works that way, too. (no pun intended) By fiddling with the charge to fill the cases in use, one can save oneself a lot of problems with fillers. In all cases (again, no pun intended) slightly compressing the BP charge has worked best for me.

You're absolutely right about the drop tube. However, you can make your own from copper tubing sold in most hardware stores, at least in this area.

As to the why of this project. Well the .30-30 is not now nor was it originally a BP cartridge. Period. After the .30-30 was introduced the Winchester people discovered that some of the users didn't like paying all that money for them new fangled smokeless shells. So, they gave them what they wanted. The .32 Winchester Special. Had a slower twist which I suppose they thought would work better with BP but still worked good to provide .30-30 performance with those new fangled smokeless shells.

I don't know about the Marlin Micro-groove fouling but I thought about it. It looks for depth about like the rifling in my TC New Englander. I've got no problems there. However, I'm using the correct lube. Lube is a BIG deal in the BP gun.

Yes, you can, and NO, I wouldn't! BP is very cruddy, and you will have to clean with water after shooting! Ballistics will be very poor, as well as accuracy. The .30/30 has a 1/12" twist which was intended for smokeless powder. The .32 Win. Special was created by Winchester using .32/40 BP barrels with 1/16" twist and the .30/30 case necked up to .321" so it could be loaded with smokeless or BP either one. The idea was that the 1/16 twist barrel wouldn't crud up as fast as a 1/12" twist, so BP could be used with less degradation in performance as the number of shots fired went up.

However, the use of black in a .30/30 is not dangerous, and any LR primer can be safely used with BP. It's just not a good idea. Cast bullets in a .30/30 can be fired with the same charges you use for jacketed bullets, if you heat-treat them!!

Derf said:

quote:

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AZ; The 30/30 is/was a B/P cartridge.

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derf, you're usually right on, but you missed on this one! Although it carries a BP sounding name, ie, ".30/30", the .30 WCF, or .30/30, as other companies chose to call it, WAS NEVER A BP round. It was THE VERY FIRST SPORTING SMOKELESS POWDER ONLY load introduced in the U.S., and as such was NEVER FACTORY-LOADED with anything but smokeless powder! The .30 U.S., or .30/40 Krag, which predated the .30/30, was also never a BP round! However, it was a military, not a sporting, round! On the other hand, although designed for smokeless powder, the .303 British was initially loaded with a very heavy, compressed pellet of black powder when first introduced because the Brits had not yet perfected Cordite to the point where it could be used in issue ammo.

[ 09-05-2003, 03:02: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

Hi there- I am new around here but just a question for you to check on before you load those shells. In all of my muzzle loading stuff Black powder is loaded by VOLUME NOT WEIGHT. Please check on it before you load. It may be untrue in the cartridge loads but as far as all my muzzle loader data tells me to load blackpowder by volume. Brent

Sorry I didn't read all the other replies before posting.... ooops Brent

I thought I replyed to this little error of mine. Maybe I subconciously deleted it instead of submitting it! Unlike my pal Red Green,I have no problem saying,opps. In my defence,I don't have much experience with the 30/30. Will that do for an apology? derf